[Burns]

I'm working on my Mechanical Engineering degree, at least 3 more years at the rate I'm able to take classes. I have 7 years experience as a machinist, and about 5 programming using Surfcam and Mastercam. So, by the time I get the degree, I'll have at least 10 years experience as a machinist. I've made everything from chicken house floor scrapers to Space Shuttle parts.

Engineers do flat-out stupid stuff on prints/design; so I figure that if I can't beat them, I might as well join them. (chair)

I live in the Huntsville, AL area. Most work, at the level I want to get to, is aerospace/defense. I don't plan on leaving the area.

Anyways, what should I be looking at for salary? Also, other than getting ahold of some solid modeling software to play with, what should I be working on to increase my value outside of school? I'm tired of being poor.

Thanks.

[MBG]

70,000-100,000.... Engineers don't make the BIG bucks..

Sorry..

But you can always take more risk and work on your own.

[Caprirs]

As someone with a BSME, I got away from it and got into machining. Salary varies widely from $30K to over $100K. My pay went up when I tried being a machinist.

Engineers do as much stupid stuff as everyone else unfortunately. Stupid is not monopolized by any particular profession. If it were, think how easy it would be to isolate that group from the rest of us really smart people.

Experience as a machinist can be beneficial but only if you get an engineering job designing machined parts. MechE is mighty broad as a discipline. You can wind up having nothing to do with manufactured parts such as HVAC, heat transfer, power generation or a myriad of other industries. If you are interested in HVAC, getting the PE next to your name makes you worth a lot more building designers and construction folks.

[RICHARD ZASTROW]

The $$$$$$$$$$$$$ are made in managing the engineering dept. That will require a Masters ME and probably an MBA as well.

If you elect to be an independent consultant (AKA RENT-A-PENCIL), you can make more $$$$$$$$ but expect periods of inactivity.

Works for me.

Dick Z

add: Caprirs is correct about the PE. In my home state, you must be a licensed Professional Engineer to claim to be an engineer.

[Burns]

70-100k/year is big bucks to me, making about 35k/year + overtime now. However, I guess I hoped that having the machining experience would bump me past that. Median for this area is 80k. Hopefully it won't take long to get up to that.

I would really hate to get completely away from making things out of metal, it's too much fun. So I don't really see going into HVAC or consulting. I don't think many engineers around here get the PE, I know my ME father doesn't but my EE uncle does. I'll look into the PE more.

Last place I worked we had "engineers" that didn't even have a degree making that kind of money.

I really see myself working well in an environment where I can take something from concept to streamlined production process.

[tobyaxis]

It widely depends on who you work for and what state you live in as to what you will earn.

[Geof]

......I really see myself working well in an environment where I can take something from concept to streamlined production process.

You are going to have to start your own business then.

Get the degree, then a graduate degree, then get PE certification, then start your own business.

[Fegenbush]

Yes, salaries vary wildly. In Kentucky, an engineer with 5 years experience can expect to make around $60k.

The Sheet Metal Workers Local 110 pays journeymen $28/hr which translates to about $56k assuming a 2000 hour work year. They are eligible for overtime and prevailing wage pay, engineers are not. Several of those guys pull in over $100k.

I will never understand why the career publications say "Mechanical engineering graduates can expect to make between $50-$70k per year." Where are they getting their numbers? Yes, it's possible to make that with decent experience, but not starting out. At least, not here.

Fegenbush

/Mechanical Engineer and PE

[RICHARD ZASTROW]

If you graduate top of your class at MIT you might make big bucks to start. In the rest of the world not so much.

The other alternative is to stay in school, become a graduate student teaching assistant, qualify for a federal grant and pocket the money. That's how your prof. is doing it. LOL

Dick Z

[lumberjack_jeff]

You are going to have to start your own business then.

Get the degree, then a graduate degree, then get PE certification, then start your own business.

Better yet, leapfrog that decade. Start the business and hire the PE when needs dictate. If your business is successful, you won't have time for the engineering anyway.

I've never seen a customer check the resume of vendor - only the references.

[Caprirs]

Despite the pay issues, I'm very glad to have my ME degree. It makes an excellent bulls**t filter when dealing with a great many things. You can sift through the old wives tales, folklore, and myths about why materials behave the way they do. Education, especially in the technical fields, is never a waste of time.

Also, if I cannot earn a living as a machinist, I can go back to being an engineer which gives me more possibilities for employment.

As far as your experience as a machinist bolstering your income as an engineer, don't bank on it. At large companies, you are unlikely to need to be able to do both jobs, so the company will not pay you extra. At the small company, you are expected to do everything so they don't pay extra.

As The Wise Geof stated, your best opportunity will be to start your own business with your combined knowledge.

[Burns]

Start my own business?

Maybe, but right now I don't have the capital. Don't want to take out loans either.

An idea that the wife and I've kicked around:

Once I get the degree, we should be in the black. I work as an engineer by day, and we invest in some machines. But nothing we have to take loans on. Then I can start trying to build some of the things I've had ideas on. Get some patents. Sell the patents.

We have discussed owning a business, but don't know that we really want to own a business, most of the owners I know usually seem pretty miserable. So I guess it is a balancing act between money vs. happiness. We don't want to be rich, necessarily, just comfortable. Can I even run a successful business without losing the things that make my family and I happy? Being a workaholic is a pretty crappy thing to do to them even though there are material benefits.

School and work, even now, put a strain on things. These are really questions no one but me can answer. But I really appreciate the advice.

Maybe some sort of consulting with a PE isn't such a bad idea.

[lumberjack_jeff]

The calculus inherent in your decision is not easy. What ROI would you realize if you invested the money you would have otherwise spend on tuition, books transportation and lost wages due to overtime you turned down? How long will it take you as an ME with Y years of experience to make as much as a machinist with Y+7 years of experience?

Figure $20,000/year for six years. Let's also say that the breakeven point is 4 years (an ME with 4 years of experience makes more money than an aerospace machinist with 11, a proposition I find doubtful)

Neglecting taxes, if you were to invest that $20,000 each year at 10%, at the end of 6 years you'd have $134,000. At the end of 10 years, you'd have almost $200,000.

Personally, in the game of life, I chose the shorter path; no college. I spent 20 years as an "engineer" of piping and rotating equipment. Most of what an ME is required to do simply requires having a good mechanical sense. I think I needed to ask people for help with advanced math maybe twice... the rest was algebra and trig. The machinery's handbook and Marks' can be purchased as a set for about $100.

I miss some of the experiences I might have gained, but I doubt it would have been more profitable.

My attitudes about college are nicely encapsulated in the movie Good Will Hunting

See, the sad thing about a guy like you is in 50 years you're gonna staht doin some thinkin on your own and you're gonna come up with the fact that there are two certaintees in life. One, don't do that. And Two, you dropped a hundred and fifty grand on a f*ing education you coulda got for a dollah fifty in late chahges at the public library

[RICHARD ZASTROW]

Yeah, but Will joined the rat race in the end. LOL

I did both the school and apprenticeship things. After enough of the "downsizing" BS, I started my own consulting company.

I'm nearly 69 years of age and enjoying it too much to quit. I choose who I want to work with and if I am approached by somebody I don't want to work with I can refuse the work.

Wait till Geof cools his heels for a while. He'll probably add a few machines to his cabin in the mountains. LOL

Dick Z

[Geof]

Do you ever read inspirational quotations?

Here are two:

Starting out to make money is the greatest mistake in life. Do what you feel you have a flair for doing, and if you are good enough at it money will come.
- William Rootes

Making money is easy. The difficult part is making it doing something it is worth dedicating your life to.
-Carlos Ruiz Zafón

I started my own business nearly thirty years ago, at age 37, and worked like a maniac for many years. It paid off, now I work when I want, travel when I want and in general really enjoy life.

Incidentally I suggest forget about trying to get patents and sell them. Patents are expensive and unless you have lots of money to chase people who infringe they are more or less worthless. Find a niche product that has a market large enough to keep you comfortable but not large enough to attract competition from big outfits.

[MBG]

Becoming an engineer in it self is a difficult task. Do you have your A.A. degree? Start with that. Get your calcs out of the way.

Engineering is a good line of work. It isn't the end all question though.

[Burns]

I'm currently taking Cal B at UAH and I'm already enrolled in the College of Engineering. About halfway thru sophomore "year," most of my pre-reqs are done.

[MBG]

I'm currently taking Cal B at UAH and I'm already enrolled in the College of Engineering. About halfway thru sophomore "year," most of my pre-reqs are done.

GOOD! if you are doing good in the calcs you will do it. Trust me it is a good thing to do in your life. A LOT of people drop out or act like it is stupid but in the end can't really do it.

GOOD LUCK

[glenthemann]

hey, glad to know someone else had this idea as well.

I started working and apprenticing at a shop in the summer, I decided to start working instead of going to university for EE (long story short i didnt grad highschool when I should have), due to the costs, the debt id incur, the having no time to do anything if i really wanted to do good, things I wanted in life which i could not attain until well after graduation, the age at which id graduate, etc.

Anyway I started in the summer pretty much loading the mills and pressing go, occasionally doing the same when the lathes were set up for manual chucking jobs. I had done this before a few many summers prior at places my dad worked at. Anyway I am at the point where I can program and set up simple to I guess what id call fairly intermediate mill and lathe programs, Im learning pretty fast id guess. We have two swiss lathes now, one we just bought has a different control from the other and my boss has chosen to send me for training, I have to go across the border and ill be there for a week!!

I thought of potentially doing what youre doing and getting my ME for the same reasons you were thinking. However I know that without a PE you aint nothin so to speak, and in order to be a PE you have to work under a PE for atleast 4 years (here in canada anyway), and well, I do like machining and I dont think it would be much pay increase if any.. I like my overtime.. as an engineer youre most likely salary and ive heard the nightmares of people working 80+ hours a week gettin salary representitive of around 40hours a week at I guess what youd figure an average hourly wage.

I think choosing to go the route I chose instead of school has been one of the better decisions ive made thus far in my life. Granted I have found a great small shop to be a part of and I have a great boss with whom I get along with really well - something not everyone has the opportunity to do. I feel like im moving along a lot faster than the average bear.. I saw threads of guys saying they pushed buttons for years then learned set ups for another few.. then moved onto programming after a few more and it kind of baffles me

anyway, goodluck to you sir, dont quit now while youre already in it; if one thing is for sure, it CANNOT hurt to have that degree

[Burns]

From what I understand, the Canadian system is different than the US system. Which is different from state to state.

I probably don't *have* to get a PE for working in Alabama, unless I'm doing building related work. I don't think most ME's in my area have PE's. It also doesn't hurt that my area is very pro-engineer and a ME job should probably double my income within a few years, hopefully it will usually be 9-5 as most work is government related.

I'm 28 and already feeling the effects of working in shops all the time. My back hurts, my wrists and fingers hurt in changing weather, coolant mist can't be good for the lungs. Even though I mostly program and do short runs now, it will make a old man out of me sooner rather than later. While machining is fun, it can be hard on the body. I want to keep the fun part and get rid of most of the wear and tear.

While you sound like you may have a lot natural talent, realize that it takes years to build up skill. Machining is still more art than science. Knowing when a machine vibrates the floor right, when a tool hums right are not quickly learned. Especially when you start trying to push the limits of your tool and machine. My favorite kind of machining is running the tool right under the breaking point, but still getting good tool life and accuracy. The kind of thing that makes people jump when the chips hit the side of the machine.

However, we the younger generation, have a technological advantage, we grew up with computers. It is much easier for us to get good at CAM and CNC machines in general, than many (not all) of the older machinists. We are also faster programmers, usually.

Don't discount the benefits of an education yet. I started college immediately after high school and pissed it away. Now, I wish I had taken just a couple of years to work and grow up a little before going. Maybe you should figure out your goals and then think about college. But, it's not for everybody.