[pjensen]

Ok, this might be an obvious question, but can somebody explain what the floater does. I understand the top of the drawbar, with the spring washers and such, but I don't know how the bottom works and how it actually grips the tool.

As far as I see, the drawbar pulls up, and the ball bearings get pushed out under the tool flange. Where does the floater fit in this picture?

I ask because, after changing out the spring washers, I found an steel ring on my table and I don't know where it came from... if it fell out of the drawbar assembly, it doesn't seem like it was very necessary (everything is working fine so far...). I'm wondering if I need to take everything apart to put it back, and I don't know where "back" is...

My machine is very old (1985) and predates all the drawings and pictures thus far. It has a much simpler drawbar assembly than anything pictured here.

Thanks,

-Peter

[little bubba]

The floater is what the ball bearings in the end of the drawbar ride on. As the drawbar pulls up, the floater forces the ball bearings inward to clamp the retention knob. The floater also uses two balls that are identical to the ones
in the drawbar to hold itself in.

Mniadna, you're lucky. Had one floater that was mangled, had to grind it out, many hours laying on my back on the table with a carbide burr, not fun.

[mniadna]

lb,
Believe me... I was getting ready to introduce Mr. Fadal to Mr. Die Grinder...


Fadal Error,
I guess I will have to make your tool. Mine will have to be aluminum. I don't think I have any plastic lying around here that large.

[Fadal Error]

For all I know, there may be different sizes of floaters, so make sure to match your tool dimensions to your floater. I am learning that there is a lot of variation between years and models.

I don't know where you are located, but in the off chance that you are anywhere near Santa Cruz, you can borrow my tool.

[mniadna]

Fadal Error,
I appreciate the offer on the tool loan, but I am in PA.

I'm interested to see what the retention force will be at when I get the machine back together(waiting on new floater, balls, o-ring, retaining clip). It was at 200 Lbs before I took it apart. I guess there is a lot of room for improvement!

[little bubba]

Fadal Error,
I appreciate the offer on the tool loan, but I am in PA.

I'm interested to see what the retention force will be at when I get the machine back together(waiting on new floater, balls, o-ring, retaining clip). It was at 200 Lbs before I took it apart. I guess there is a lot of room for improvement!

You could have had better tool retention sitting up on top of the spindle pulling the drawbar up with your fingers. You'll like it, it will be like a new machine.

One stupid observation that I've made, with springs that aren't shattered, the drawbar pulls back further and with no tool can contact the tool release piston, makes a funny sound and smell if you run it with no tool in the spindle.

[mniadna]

Okay, CNC Pros says to put 42 springs in my spindle. It is a 10k spindle with a 4.25" deep spring pocket. Fadal says to put 43 in... I put 42 in and have 1175 lbs of pull force. Now my CT-40 Haas is supposed to have 1200-1450 lbs. I'm thinking she could use the extra spring. Does anyone know without a doubt what this thing is supposed to have for pull force, or springs?

[Fadal Error]

CNC Pros was wrong on my mill. I had a drawing of my spindle and it showed 42 springs, so that's what I did. I would definitely trust Fadal over CNC Pros. If it wasn't ridiculously difficult to compress the springs to get the retainers back on, you may need the 43rd.

[fadalserviceguy]

WAS THIS RING YOUR TALKING ABOUT 1/8 THICK AND ABOUT THE SAME SIZE AS THE BELLVILE WASHERS - IF SO IT MIGHT BE THE SPACER FADAL USED BACK THEN TO LIMIT THE STROKE OF THE DRAW BAR PLATE - IT FITS ONTO THE DRAWBAR PISTON ROD AND IS SANDWHICHED BETWEEN ORIENTATION PLATE TOP SURFACE AND THE BOTTOM OF THE DRAWBAR PLATE - THE YEAR OF YOUR VMC LEADS ME TO THIS

[mniadna]

It wasn't that hard to compress them. I'm not sure one more would make that much difference. I am just worried about the tool releasing if I put the other spring in. My Fadal manual says 43 springs.

[fadalserviceguy]

F.Y.I. - FADAL BACK IN THE EARLY YEARS AND I TALKING ABOUT NONLOCKING DRAW BARS USED TO PUT STEEL SPACERS IN THE DRAWBAR WASHERS STACK - USALLY ONLY ONE RIGHT IN THE STACK CENTER - AND A NON LOCKING DRAW BAR MAY NOR GET BETTER THAN AT BEST 1200 LBS - 800 TO 1000 LBS IS ABOUT NORMAL

[Fadal Error]

If I were you, I would leave it as is. At worst, you are at 95% which is probably what a couple months wear-in would give you anyway.

[mniadna]

Too late... I put the 43rd spring in. Now I have 1725 lbs, but now I found another diagram in the manual that says 42 springs for the locking DB. WTF!!! I need to know what the force is supposed to be!

[Fadal Error]

That was quick! From my experience, I doubt that it's possible to put one too many springs in there. The extra force would make compressing them to get the retainers in nearly impossible. I don't have a force gauge, so I can't help you there.

[mniadna]

Yeah, thats because I haven't put the bridge or knock out plate back on yet. I just used my puller to compress the drawbar enough to get the gauge in, then release it. I'd keep it at 1725 lbs and call it a day, but I don't want to risk destroying any of the drawbar components. I'd try and count my pieces, but someone had this apart before...

[Fadal Error]

I only had 29 spring washers intact on my mill, so my only guide was the drawing I found on Fadal's website.

[pjensen]

For the record, the mystery ring I found on my table turned out to be a die from a punch in the shop. Someone who had stopped to see me kill myself putting in the new spring washers had accidentally left it behind after gawking.

Also for the record, my mill only has 12 washers in the drawbar setup. I think FadalServiceGuy is right about only having 800 to 1000lbs of pull force on my mill. If I put an extra washer in, the piston can't release the tool any more, so this is all I'll get. Is there a way to measure the pull force without buying a $1000 tool?

Cheers,

-Peter

[IN2GLAMISGIRL]

I have a old tool holder with a .050 washer under the retension knob
that I use to check the condition of the drawbar springs.
If this holder is not tight in the spindle I know to change the springs
the next time the machine is open.

Use 42 31.5mm x 16.3mm x 2mm disc spring washers on 4.25 deep spindle.
Mc Master #96445K295 $8.33 for 12 pcs.
Also use plenty of copper anti sieze lube.

[mniadna]

I have 43 springs in. I am right around 1700 LBS. Changes tools fine.

[jack123529]

Attachment 347172Attachment 347174Attachment 347176
Hey guys, i know its an old thread but i tried removing the drawbar and it broke, what did i do wrong?