[Deviant]

http://img651.imageshack.us/i/entireneedleheadassy.png/

In this picture, what is the cross bar with the 3 bolts for? Is that the hopper foot lever?


****

auto variable-speed, stitch regulation and single/multi stroke options.
hot glue a magnet inside the tube, with a bit sticking out, and a reed switch

I wouldn't put anything extra in the needle assembly area. All of those parts move with a lot of speed and get covered in oil. If your part was to come off. It might get interesting. I'd look at making a different manual turn knob for the back of the machine. Then I would make an interrupt disk to be used with cnc4pc's index pulse card.

http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/prod...roducts_id=129

You'd just need to make sure that your interrupt disk was timed with the rotation of your machine as needed.

Start would cycle only once to pick up the bobbin thread, color change would cycle 2x with a pause in between, and end of stitch would cycle 4-6x to anchor the end.

This aspect will be left up to the program. The pickup and color change aspects, will probably need to remain manual. The tack stitching could be added to the end of your g-code. I.e. Repeat the last 4 steps in reverse.

I'm not 100% sure how your machine does it, but when my wife pulls up the bobbin thread, there is a decently long tail, that needs to be clipped off. If you start sewing over the tail without clipping. It's difficult to remove it later. Hence I think that it needs to be manual.

vary the voltage to the motor from 0 to 90v
gleaned by the outputs of the rotary encoders.


This part will be interesting. I suspect that you don't want to vary the voltage. At least that is what my previous research showed. Instead I modified the duty cycle of the 90v. So that it was only on 50% of the time. If you checked the output with a volt meter it would read 90v, but the motor would turn very slow. I did this via a PWM signal and a n-channel mosfet.

Unfortunately, it didn't work exactly how I wanted it to. At midrange speeds up to max voltage it was fine. At mid and lower, the machine would stall. So there was a minimal amount of speed that had to be maintained, or the stitches weren't regulated to exact lengths. This would not be a problem for a cnc controlled machine, but if she wanted to do free motion. It wouldn't really be ideal. I haven't devoted any more brain cycles to it. I'm sure it can and has been done. Just need to think about it.

My last ideal was to use a stepper/servo and a gecko or like controller. I would take the outputs from the encoders and generate step/dir pulses that would turn the motor. I had a few emails with Marcus from Geckodrive on this, but I think he lost interest or got busy. I was using an arduino to generate the PWM and planned to use it to generate the step pulses. My concern/reservations is that the arduino wasn't responsive enough. I'm sure that this came from my code and it could probably be improved. However there is a certain delay as it reads the encoders. You will miss some pulses while you are doing other things. You will need to think about how to over come this. Original thought was to take a time stamp, then change the speed based on the number of pulses received in that interval. Which caused most of the lag. However, if you change the speed on every encoder pulse, you get way to much movement. There needs to be debounce type logic. I.e. Are you really moving? How fast are you moving...

I believe most of the quilting companies are using analog products for this. I don't know enough about electronics to gather the parts needed. But I'm fairly confident that can be handled with a digital solution. My solution was "close" but not good enough.

Instead of remaking the X-Y platform, I may just mount a motor underneath it, which will drive the FWD/REV motion of the carriage. I have ~12 stepping motors, from 1.2 to 24v various power, step and physical sizes to choose from.


This part will involve some doodling on your part. You will need to figure out the best way to do it, while staying out of the way of other parts. Also, you need to keep the weight down, if your wife is going to do any free motion. I believe that this is the reason that people make the side mounts. However if you balance everything right, I don't think that the extra weight from the motors will make much difference. You will need to be able to disengage from the x-y axis though. I.e. quick release clamp on belt.

The Gammill sewing machines are ~30-50lbs, so I doubt that you will get that heavy with your setup. So she should still be okay.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

-Deviant

[supertechster]

Once again, thanks for the quick reply, intelligent response and insight needed to properly complete this project. I was going to design/build my own 2-3axis motor driver, but then found this 3-motor unit for a good price of $44.00 USD: http://www.chromationsystems.com/sto...roducts_id=207

Does anyone here have any experience with this model? I probably won't need the 3d axis, but thought it 'might' be useful for an automatic, motor-driven something or other addition later on.

You are right that the rear hand-knob would be a better place for the needle-position sensor, but I didn't relish 'decoding' rotary pulses into Up/Dn position, when a tiny NeDyn magnet siliconed in the right place and a nearby Hall-Effect transistor might do the trick. I also didn't feel comfortable drilling a hole for a magnet into any of the handwheels... but on closer inspection, a small one could be hot-glued into the setscrew holes already there... or a dab of light/dark paint (or 2 for very accurate timing) could be used on the outside edge, with a reflective-type Sensor. 1 full turns of that rear handwheel produces 1 and 3/4 needle cycles. Perhaps the 3rd axis could be used here?

A Reed switch, although too slow to react to a high-speed up-down operation might work too for the slow cycling requirement, as it would cease to respond if the up-down motion passed a certain stroke-frequency, which the operator could easily force by simply holding down the start button. It could also simply count the stitches in slow mode, and stop the machine when proper number was reached for bobbin or color-change or tieoff.

The long bar is the hopper foot rocker arm/lever.

My motor collection is huge, but so far I have Identified: 12x Unipolar, 3.9v, 1.5a... 4x BiPolar, 4v, 1.5a... 2x 32v, 3a BiPolar and 1x 40v, 1a oddball ;-) All are spares from my days repairing Daisy-Wheel, Impact, Dot-Matrix and Laser printers. All are around 3" long by 2.5' Dia and offer 180steps/rev.

Lastly, the 3rd axis 'could' also be the main motor, however a PIC or computer-controlled PWM driver for the 90VDC main motor would definitely be the way I'd want to proceed, and one offering constant-current would prevent stalling in slow mode operation. I have begun collecting info on PIC programming and PWM controllers and will have more to report tomorrow. For now, I am gonna grab 2 buards, some rollers and v-track and duplicate the carriage... then add a motor and experiment with several versions of drive (wire, flat cable, feedscrew) see how I'm going to 'drive' it all.

[supertechster]

Here's a few interesting sites for controller/driver boards I found:
[http://www.stepgenie.com/] Additional parts for 1 Axis/Motor needed

[http://www.chromationsystems.com/sto...oducts_id=207] No additional parts for 3 Axis/Motors needed - More here: [http://www.instructables.com/id/Para...pto-Isolated/]

[http://www.piclist.com/techref/io/st...tep/index.htm] Additional parts for 1 Axis/Motor needed

[http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~ih/doc/stepper/control2/] Information and circuit samples

Enjoy!

[Deviant]

I'm still leaning toward the cnc4pc index pulse card, with the optical interrupt sensor.

You would just need to cut a little washer with a hole/slot then place it between the rear hand wheel and the sewing machine. Drill/Tap a small hole on the sewing machine for mounting the sensor. That "should" provide your needle position sensing.

http://cnc4pc.com/images/C3_Disk.jpg

I've ordered some mosfets from stepgenie and got them right away. So they seem to be a decent outfit.

No idea about the other controllers. Maybe someone else has used them.

I tend to be pro-gecko, but they cost a lot more.

I used an arduino, which is an ARM based board instead of a pic. I didn't need to buy a separate programmer. As they have it built in with the usb connector. i.e. the Arduino is a gloried boot loader to make your life easier.

http://www.arduino.cc/

I picked mine up from sparkfun at

http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/categories.php?c=103

[supertechster]

I went and had a look at the Arduino and must say that is a nifty proto-board. Will it support stepper motors (Bi and Uni Polar)? I ask as all I could get from the descriptions and specs was that it can handle up to 17 Servos - which aren't the same animal ;-) but with a total of 54 I/O ports, that thing sure is a $69.00 workhorse. I'll try to come up with discrete or TTL ways of solving my needs before I spend it on one of these. I still have hundreds of analog, digital, discrete and Ohm / Cap components in my boxes to play with.

I'll also keep on researching my Stepper Controller build-Buy options. I dug out my old Forrest-Mims Electronics Notebooks and took another look at magnetic and optical sensing possibilities. We are getting there, just have to iron out the wrinkles and file down those sharp edges before I pick up the drill.

[Deviant]

It should be able to handle stepper motors.....

However.....

They are some very limited power restraints that it can be used with.

The servos that are mentioned, are very small RC type. I.e. Steering etc...

You'd need to look at the spec's. However, with that said. It should be more than able to handle the logic side of things. And could send the pulse/dir signals. i.e. On/Off at 2uS signal width.

Short answer:
I think your motors will exceed the limitations of the direct power output of the arduino. So you would still need some type of step controller...

[Deviant]

Here is a picture of rwskinner's lathe conversion with similar pulse indexer.


http://cnczone.com/forums/showpost.p...&postcount=121

[supertechster]

OK. A bit more info never hurts. Thanks for the clarification ;-)

I have been re-thinking my plan to either install PC-Controlled PWM circuitry for or to totally swap out the 90VDC 'brush-type' main motor with a beefy stepper, in favor of simply using a really tiny stepping motor and somehow direct link it to the top-mounted speed control box on her machine to speed-up and slow-down the motor in direct relation to the design being stitched.

The knob currently has a 270deg swing, and literally goes from a crawl to 100% speed instantly, so a tiny step-motor mounted near or under that knob, and an O-ring or similar type belt drive for it might just work.

My thought is that powering down or resetting the machine (x-y axis) in preparation for starting work, changing patterns or advancing to the next 'row' of the quilted item(s) , could also then snap the speed adj. knob to 0, and the single stitch, thread-change or tie-off could be still done via 2 new buttons on the Left handpiece. These could be programmed to handle that. Or 1-button with 2-3 functions ;-)

Do you think this is do-able?

I'll also still need to eventually automate the quilt roller ADV and REW mechanisms so might have to up my requirement to a 4 or 5 axis controller (or 2 inexpensive 3 Axis ones).

One other thing I discovered and would like to share... a magnet epoxied to the back of a Hall-Effect transistor will enable it to detect a minute difference in metallic density - a slot or setscrew hole (!) in a rotating or oscillating metal part and either turn ON or OFF depending on how it is wired.... so I may not have to glue a magnet in a moving or rotating part after all ;-) Still researching leads and costs on all parts, then I'll begin.

[wwendorf]

I've been doing computerized quilting for about 8 years now. You really don't need to worry about adjusting the speed of the sewing machine. All you need to worry about is moving the carriage in all directions at the same rate of speed.

There are a few quilting systems that slave the sewing machine speed to the movement of the computerized carriages, but the pcquilter has proven that unnecessary.

The only think you really need to do is create a circuit that is the same as the foot control which would allow you to dial in your sewing speed, and a relay to have the computerized carriages turn on/off the sewing machine.

Wade

[supertechster]

Wade,

I thought 'Stitch regulation' was the Utopia for machine quilters? That's what I was after.

And did you mean add switches, rather than relay to the carriages to turn on/off the machine?

For broken thread or bobbin, I want the machine to stop, needle down and carriage locked. Operator can then take appropriate action without losing the point of breakage and the G Code could back up 8-10 stitches on resume.

For thread color change, I want needle UP and carriage locked and for end of stitching for the row, I want the needle UP and the carriage locked so operator can clip, and then resume will move it full right or left and all the way back so the quilt motors can advance to the next part. Am I missing something? Oh, and if you rollback to post on page 19, you'll see her machine. She doesn't have a foot pedal.

[wwendorf]

What i'm telling you to do by keeping the movement the same speed is stitch regulation. You have the sewing machine at a set speed, and the carriage moves at a set speed, and you have even, consistent stitches.

I meant add a relay to the electronics to control the sewing machine on/off.

You do NOT want the machine to stop in a needle down position if the thread breaks. You won't be able to change the bobbin or rethread the needle if you do so. In addition, if the carriage accidentally moves, you really don't want the wife mad at you that your machine ripped the heck out of your quilt when it moved with the needle down (i've seen it happen, it's not pretty).

In addition, when you start sewing or stop sewing, you need to perform some sort of locking stitch maneauver. Such as go forward 1/4", then back 1/4" then start sewing, or sew a triangle at start and at end of a stitch. This locks the thread so that it cannot come loose from the quilt.

Rarely do quilters change thread color. I can only remember seeing 3 different colors on 1 particular quilt.

Needle up/needle down is a good thing. You can do that in other ways than replacing the motor with a stepper. I don't think that would work very well, and would likely get your wife mad at you for wrecking her sewing machine.

Carriage lock is a good thing on pausing stitching, but you need to be able to unlock it for manual positioning as well.

Also, do you have any idea how you are planning on doing patterns? I would suggest you look at quiltrecipes.com to see how patterns are organized. A lot of them such as a stipple (squiggly lines) are made in 6" blocks. Those block are then capable of repeating themselves. In order to make repetitive patterns appear random, you have to have the ability to start sewing at a random portion of the pattern.

For example, if you have a repetitive pattern that is 10" long, you might start the first row at the beginning of the pattern. The next row would start at 70% into the pattern. The row after that would be 30% into the pattern.

This randomizes your patterns so that it doesn't look like a computer did it. That is why all quilting machines tend to have their own custom commands and control software. They even have their own g-code like language.

You also need to be able to do things like rotate a pattern and resize a pattern.

If she doesn't have a pedal on her machine, then you are set. All you have to do is add a relay to your circuit which acts like you pressed the start button. Her's already has a speed control, so you are set there as well.

If you want to talk to me voice, you can call me. Just shoot me an email or PM and I'll call you or vise-versa.

Wade

[supertechster]

Wade,

OK, thanks for all the help. I didn't think that Stitch Regulation was automatic in CNC mode... it's just that she said she wanted it ;-) The little RED button on the right handgrip is the Start/Stop one. Relay is in the black box on top of the machine that also houses the speed aj. that I wanted to automate to keep up with ever changing stitch speed and direction.

We plan to add 'Embroidery' capabilities to this quilter with color, patterns and the whole 9-yards so she can either do that... or plain old quilting. She has a LASER and 12" by 12ft long continious, repeating, roll-paper quilt pattern sets (~30 of them) that she can do the manual patterning with, but I thought I'd either plot out those patterns for her into G-Code with a scanner and OCR S/W, or build a 'line-follower' which follows the black lines and takes control of the stepper motors.

Sorry I misunderstood, but I assumed when the machine was moving side-to-side or front-to-back on the carriage fast, It would also have to be stitching fast too, that she'd have to keep an eye on things or likewise constantly adjust the speed of the motor to keep up.... that's why I said I'd also want to automate the speed knob. If we can set it and let it go. OK ;-)

Have looked at tons of PPort and USB breakout boxes and UNI- and Bi-polar motor drives and gotts tell you there is alot out there. Best I have seen so far are noise-limited, pure DC, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8 and 1/16th step((!) and all recommend 'feed-screw' positioning... although I had my heart set on vinyl coated, 25-50lb test wires. We'll see. Build or buy is still an option.

Thanks too for clearin up the Needle down scenario if the machine hiccuped. Not pretty ;-)

[Deviant]

Stitch Regulator is for when she's moving the machine manual. I.e. Free Motion. Generally, that is for custom quilts. Or to fill in the gaps where a pantograph doesn't fit. ((The paper pattern))

Generally the x/y movement by the cnc controller will be a fixed speed. I.e. 50ipm or whatever. On her initial setup. You would turn the machine on via relay from within the cnc control software. It would stitch a straight line. She would then measure the stitches.... to see how many there was. I.e. 10, 12, etc...

You would increase the sewing machine speed, or decrease the carriage movement speed. i.e. 40ipm. To meet the desired stitches per inch.

So, you could use the stitch regulator with cnc. But, keep in mind that as the machine speeds up/down with the moving of the carriage. You might get some jerking/twitching in the pattern when in stitch regulation mode. You might think that this wouldn't happen, but the stitch regulator on my wife's machine picks up ever little hiccup and tries to adjust for it.


The wire may work, but I'd be concerned about slipping.

Personally, I would use timing belts or a rack/pinion for the carriage movement. But, you need to decide on some way to disconnect the carriage from the axis, if she want's to free motion. I.e. quick release pin/clamp etc..

Wade,

OK, thanks for all the help. I didn't think that Stitch Regulation was automatic in CNC mode... it's just that she said she wanted it ;-) The little RED button on the right handgrip is the Start/Stop one. Relay is in the black box on top of the machine that also houses the speed aj. that I wanted to automate to keep up with ever changing stitch speed and direction.

We plan to add 'Embroidery' capabilities to this quilter with color, patterns and the whole 9-yards so she can either do that... or plain old quilting. She has a LASER and 12" by 12ft long continious, repeating, roll-paper quilt pattern sets (~30 of them) that she can do the manual patterning with, but I thought I'd either plot out those patterns for her into G-Code with a scanner and OCR S/W, or build a 'line-follower' which follows the black lines and takes control of the stepper motors.

Sorry I misunderstood, but I assumed when the machine was moving side-to-side or front-to-back on the carriage fast, It would also have to be stitching fast too, that she'd have to keep an eye on things or likewise constantly adjust the speed of the motor to keep up.... that's why I said I'd also want to automate the speed knob. If we can set it and let it go. OK ;-)

Have looked at tons of PPort and USB breakout boxes and UNI- and Bi-polar motor drives and gotts tell you there is alot out there. Best I have seen so far are noise-limited, pure DC, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8 and 1/16th step((!) and all recommend 'feed-screw' positioning... although I had my heart set on vinyl coated, 25-50lb test wires. We'll see. Build or buy is still an option.

Thanks too for clearin up the Needle down scenario if the machine hiccuped. Not pretty ;-)

[wwendorf]

Not to sound down on the idea of embroidery, but I have a 12 needle (12 thread) embroidery machine and i've been doing embroidery for longer than I have been doing quilting. Quilting is easily doable with a standard quilting machine. I don't think embroidery is going to be the same.

With embroidery, at least TRUE embroidery, it's alot more than just X,Y. It is the lenght of the stitch and the placement of the need. It's more like a 4, or maybe 5 axis cnc machine. Also, a quilting frame likely going to be stable enough to do embroidery on. You really need to do embroidery with a hoop and a stationary sewing head to get the fine resolution you need. With embroidery we are talking resolution of approximately .2mm (or .007" thousandths) of an inch. With a sewing machine head moving on a track system and all the other forces, you are likely going to get no better than 1/100" of an inch. That is what the stand of the PCQuilter is and most quilting systems.

As far as constant movment goes, the most important thing is to maintain constant velocity. In some cases, a 20 degree line sewn from lower left to upper right would have a speed different than a 45 degree line sewn from lower left to upper right. The software/hardware HAS to be calibrated to maintain the speed. Also, when you come to a sharp point. like if you are sewing a square or hexagon, you have to remember that the machine MUST pause for a split second at those sharp angles just so that you get a clean corner. If you just move arround it, you may get a rounded corner.

There are numerous other issues that i have dealt with as I am one of two software developers for the pcquilter control software. The guys who owns the company did most of the motion control software, whereas I did a lot of the user interface stuff, but I still got to hear a lot of the trials and tribulations involved with the motion control side of things.

Deviant made a good point about the free motion, but I think there are simpler ways of doing stitch regulation without tearing apart the sewing machine. The motor that comes with it is actually a pretty good and strong motor for speed control. You can make use of a computer mouse to calculate speed of movement, and with the correct calibration and an interface board, that could become your stitch regulator.

I would use timing belts fastened to either end of the quilting frame and timing pulleys on the steppers. Make sure the belt mounts to the CENTER of your carriage, NOT the ends. You will get "wagging" at high speeds. You want the movement of the machine on the center axis of the machine.

Wade

[Switcher]

You really need to do embroidery with a hoop and a stationary sewing head to get the fine resolution you need.

That's the only way I've ever known embroidery machines to be.

Also something to think about, is ramping up speed, when first starting new thread/colors, they don't run 100% feed (wide open) when first starting the thread, it's actually very slow, then the X & Y feed gradually increases to 100%.

The same goes just before the thread path ends, the X & Y gets slower & slower, before the path is finished.

I would imagine two things are going on:

1) easier to determine needle up position (needle moving slow)
2) prevent tearout on the fabric, end of the X & Y path

[Khalid]

Has any body able to use my software?...

[Switcher]

Has any body able to use my software?...

I couldn't ever get the install to finish (error).

I tried the links you posted, still didn't work (Win XP).

[Khalid]

Hmmm... I have to put the complete setup some where.. Any website?

[Rene Nuñez Paz]

Hello to every

My first words are THANKS KHALID!!!

My name is Rene, I'll try to write better possible, English is nothing easy for me.

I'd follow all your posts, are very interesting and useful for me, I live in a third world country, and all practical and economical solutions are always welcome.

About your software.

1-Downloaded Sophiesew, open example files (New tatoodragoon), exported like DST file.

2 -Download VB60.EXE, installed and reboot
-have installed Microsoft Framework 2.0 SP2, 3.0 SP2 and 3.5 SP1, i don't
what is that I need exactly
- Download and installed your software
-Replace the executable file for the last version that enable the save function.Also replace the file name in PROGRAMS FILE, because default option when install the program is the exe file than comes in install program.

4-Open your software- load DST FILE, I was triyng some options, to look all the functionalities of the software.

5-Save the GCODE in two versions (CG and NC), but I can't open in MACH3.
then in populate list , copy and paste in Notes Block. edit and save, erase the header, and all coments inside the file, save the file like TXT.
I don't understand the text inside the GCODE, my Mach don't recognize that and display a error message. What can I do for not edit the file always, also is a very very long file and Mach some times dont answer.

6-I'm curretly trying to configure MACH3, in new profile for X,Y,A axis, but I don't how to do for the A axis configuration. My steppers are 200steps for revolucion, Use HobbyCNC Pro 4axis board in 1/4 Microsteps, then I get 800pulses for revolucion , I think then that for a 360 degree rotation I need
800/360= 2.22 steps, at the end, Iam lost in this, help me, please.

Questions

1- Considering that needle movement is controlled by A axis.
Is necessary a movement sensor to control the wheel?
Or is only for keep the needle up, when I do the thread or bobin change? How can I controll this?

2- Where it goes the treadh broken sensor? May I considering like some
kind of limits for the card imputs?

3-Is necessary a motor to lift the foot? of this is manually controlled when I change the thread or bobin?


Concluding
Is a very good software, I can't wait to make some trys in the real life, Im thinking to attach the fabric frame support to Z axis, and put the sewing machine on the table and look what happends.

Thanks again

Best Regards

Rene

PD-Sorry my bad english.

[Khalid]

Rene .. Replace the file with Newer version... This will solve the Problem.. Actually One of The Comments Bracket was in New Line so Mach3 couldn't read..
Now the problem will solve.. Just replace the Exe with this one.