[Tormachmaster]

[QUOTE=twocik;778643]So the only way to fix the tram on a tormach machine, is with a shim or are you unbolting the head and twisting this in anyway ? I know it's not a swivel head, but sometimes just a tiny little gap, twist, or who knows a crooked bolt, etc. could cause this...


What would you guys consider bad and need to unbolt the head/column and add a shim in ? Reason I ask is my machine when face mill (tormach face mill 1.5" dia) CW conventional it's beautiful, but when climb cutting (Spindle CW, X positive to X negative values) I'm seeing a little bit of a circle pattern... So I'm thinking the back right corner might need a 0.0004 or 0.0005 shim.



I may in the future build a swivel plate for mine just to be able to set it easyier. anything under .0005 should be fine if you are not worried about precision flatness.

[twocik]

"I may in the future build a swivel plate for mine just to be able to set it easyier. anything under .0005 should be fine if you are not worried about precision flatness.
"


Keep us updated on that.....

[justgary]

If you have the deluxe stand, you should have threaded feet at each corner. When I installed my machine, I leveled the base as best I could before setting the machine on top. That consisted of using three of the feet to get the base level, then "snugging" up the fourth foot so the base didn't wobble.

After I set the machine on the base and checked the tram, I had to shim one corner to bring it up. About six months later I realized that the corner I had to shim was the same one that I "snugged" on the base. I then removed the shim and raised that corner of the base slightly until I was satisfied with the tram.

Basically, "snugging" that fourth foot was the right thing to do, but the only way to determine the correct amount of snug was to check it after it had the weight of the machine on it. That's exactly what checking the tram does. It tells you about tiny variations in the height of each corner of the base after the base has a load on it.

The point is, if you do a good job of leveling the base before you install the machine, you can probably correct any out-of-tram situation by cranking one foot on the base up or down just a little bit. Of course, you might have to move the foot 0.100" to get the frame of the machine up 0.010", but it seems a lot better to me than using shims. Besides, cranking the feet is pretty easy compared to jacking a corner of the machine and installing a shim.

Give it a try.

Regards,

- Just Gary

[Magnum164]

I haven't found a way to crank the legs up and down yet. How did you move them?

[justgary]

Magnum164 -

The PCNC 1100 Deluxe Stand has threaded legs with cross-drilled holes above the shoe portion. It's pretty easy to stick a rod into one of the holes and bump the leg around in a circle, leaving the shoe stationary on the floor. You could get fancy and machine a spanner for the job (Randy would).

Even without holes, you should be able to turn the feet if your stand has threads. A small pipe wrench or vise grips would work.

Regards,

- Just Gary

P.S. Where did I put that broom?

[Magnum164]

Yea I finally got a pipe wrench that would grip it once the paint was gone

[twocik]

Ok so back on subject... Speeds, Feeds, etc.. I decided to buy a few different nice end mills to test on mainly 6061 aluminum. Going for a almost perfect part, with very little tooling marks, no gashes, etc...




If I'm running my


MOP 7 (roughing)

Here's the cutter I'm using for roughing (picture attached) -



http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/116/2491/=793kkj

Part # 8829A2 - Niagara Cutter


- 1/4" 2FL 45° End Mill TICN ( LOC 0.75" )
- Cut Feed Rate 10.3 IPM
- Spindle Speed 2567 rpm
- DOC 0.090"
- Roughing Clearance 0.01"
- Target depth -0.720"
- Max Crossover distance 0.7
- Coolant on
- Conventional CW







MOP 8 (finishing)

Here's the cutter I'm using for finishing (picture attached) -



http://www.mcmaster.com/#order-history/=793l1g

Part # 29335A55 - Quality Carbide Tool



- 1/4" 3FL 60° End Mill TIN (LOC 0.75")
- Cut Feed Rate 15.4 IPM
- Spindle Speed 2567 rpm
- DOC 0.753"
- Roughing Clearance 0
- Target depth -0.753"
- Max Crossover distance 0.7
- Coolant on
- Conventional CW






Now for my MOP 7 "roughing cut", Niagara Speeds & Feeds recommendation list says to use a speed of 500 - 2000 for uncoated and for coated (which mine cutter is) a SFM speed increased by 40%. If I was to go the min. of 500 SFM that would be 7640 rpms at 30.6 IPM with a .002 FPT. Now since our machines don't run that fast/hard, how or what's a good SFM that you'd use ?



Oh and what does 32 HRC mean exactly, if I remember correctly it has something to do with the way the material/aluminum is heat treated ?



Do you see anything I could improve in MOP 7 or Mop 8 for performance, speed, etc. to achieve a better surface finish (faster, slower, more feed, less feed, etc.. )?





.

[300sniper]

at a glance, you are WAY too slow with carbide in aluminum. spin it as fast as you machine will go (mine is 4500 rpm but i think you have the newer model) and keep the chip load where the manufacture recommended. if you are at the recommended chip load now, double your speed and feed and see what happens.

edit: i also don't think you will see any advantage of coatings on carbide in aluminum on your machine. you just can't spin them fast enough.

edit again: i also think i'd try out that 3 flute for roughing and finishing. a 3 flute should still have enough room for chip evacuation. since you will run it at a faster feed rate, you will remove material faster. the 3 flute will also be more rigid than the 2 flute and less chance for chatter. you will also cut down on a tool change.

[Tormachmaster]

"I may in the future build a swivel plate for mine just to be able to set it easyier. anything under .0005 should be fine if you are not worried about precision flatness.
"


Keep us updated on that.....

I may start modeling it within the next few weeks I figure two SS plates they would bolt up to the original bolt pattern and simply pivot among eachother.

[twocik]

"at a glance, you are WAY too slow with carbide in aluminum. spin it as fast as you machine will go (mine is 4500 rpm but i think you have the newer model) and keep the chip load where the manufacture recommended. if you are at the recommended chip load now, double your speed and feed and see what happens.

edit: i also don't think you will see any advantage of coatings on carbide in aluminum on your machine. you just can't spin them fast enough.

edit again: i also think i'd try out that 3 flute for roughing and finishing. a 3 flute should still have enough room for chip evacuation. since you will run it at a faster feed rate, you will remove material faster. the 3 flute will also be more rigid than the 2 flute and less chance for chatter. you will also cut down on a tool change."

My machine will go to 5140 rpms and wish it would go faster for the little cutters I have to use. I was thinking what if someone was to make a bigger pulley for faster speeds or even add a larger motor, say 3hp ...... Thoughts ???






As for cutting, you're saying to throw my rpms to 5140 for a 1/4" cutter ? Even with a DOC of 0.090" ?

Last should I jack up the feed rate to ?



If so,.... Wow my iphone machine feed & speed, IPM app is way off then.




Please let me know if I'm doing this right. To measure my chip load, pick up a chip and measure it with a caliper is the correct way to do it right ?







.

[flick]

Please let me know if I'm doing this right. To measure my chip load, pick up a chip and measure it with a caliper is the correct way to do it right ?

You're chipload is a calculation. IPM/RPM cancels out the time factor and gives you inches/revolution. Divide that by the number of teeth and you've got your CLPT.

If you're having trouble with that (or don't like doing pointless calculations in your head all the time while programming, like me) then try programming in G95 mode. You just might like it.

[twocik]

Flick here's a screen shot of what I'm seeing on my iphone app. (pictures attached)

"You're chipload is a calculation. IPM/RPM cancels out the time factor and gives you inches/revolution. Divide that by the number of teeth and you've got your CLPT."

I thought this was a measurement of the chips that are cut... So am I misunderstand this or using the application wrong ?






CLPT - Cutting Length Per Tooth ?






.

[300sniper]

My machine will go to 5140 rpms and wish it would go faster for the little cutters I have to use. I was thinking what if someone was to make a bigger pulley for faster speeds or even add a larger motor, say 3hp ...... Thoughts ???


As for cutting, you're saying to throw my rpms to 5140 for a 1/4" cutter ? Even with a DOC of 0.090" ?

Last should I jack up the feed rate to ?



If so,.... Wow my iphone machine feed & speed, IPM app is way off then.


Please let me know if I'm doing this right. To measure my chip load, pick up a chip and measure it with a caliper is the correct way to do it right ?

.

i am no expert but i think i read here that the bearings and balance of the spindle may be the limiting factor of the tormach. if you change pulley ratios, you may (or may not) over heat the bearings.

if you increase your rpm, you need to increase the feed rate to keep the chip load in within the manufactures recommendations.

i am not sure where you are getting the 2567 rpm from. you math looks good in this post:

If I was to go the min. of 500 SFM that would be 7640 rpms at 30.6 IPM with a .002 FPT. Now since our machines don't run that fast/hard, how or what's a good SFM that you'd use ?

if it were me, i'd rough and finish you part with the 3 flute endmill. i think i'd start with a doc of .050", 5100 rpm, 30 ipm and lots of flood coolant to keep the chips out of the pocket. it will probably do the .090" doc but you need to make sure your tool holder is tightened good in the spindle.

[300sniper]

Flick here's a screen shot of what I'm seeing on my iphone app. (pictures attached)


I thought this was a measurement of the chips that are cut... So am I misunderstand this or using the application wrong ?



CLPT - Cutting Length Per Tooth ?

.

if you said the manufacture suggested a minimum of 500 sfm, why are you using 168? get it as close to the recommended speed as you can but be sure to keep the chip load the same.

and yes, the clpt is technically the thickness of the chip. if you calc your feeds and speeds correctly (or let a program do it for you), the chip thickness should measure what you entered for your chip load per tooth.

[flick]

CLPT is chip load per tooth, the same as fpt (feed per tooth) shown in your calculator. And 300sniper is right, if you can't get up to the recommended minimum 500 sfpm, you just go as fast as the spindle can.

I wouldn't recommend physically measuring chips to determine what your chip load is. There's a lot going on at the cutting edge that can make a chip thicker than you might think it should be for the feed.

[twocik]

Hi snipper,
While back I asked about why companies all have different speeds & feed charts and figured out that it due to how they make the cutters.

The 168 SFM was from little machine shops recommendation chart and thought to myself that could be wrong, but wanted to check here with you guys first.


Now from what the cutting tool company recommends is 500 - 2000 SFM (not coated) and Tormach machines can't cut that fast as far as RPMs go and have calculated the fastest SFM we could use on cutting 6061 aluminum would be 337 SFM...

DIA - 0.25"
RPM - 5140
= 337 SFM

Does this seem about right ?



"if it were me, i'd rough and finish you part with the 3 flute endmill. i think i'd start with a doc of .050", 5100 rpm, 30 ipm and lots of flood coolant to keep the chips out of the pocket. it will probably do the .090" doc but you need to make sure your tool holder is tightened good in the spindle."

I'll give it a try...





"i am no expert but i think i read here that the bearings and balance of the spindle may be the limiting factor of the tormach. if you change pulley ratios, you may (or may not) over heat the bearings."



How about replacing the bearing or is this easier said than done.. ? I'm happy at how fast it cuts now, but thought I'd see if anyone has tried this yet.

[300sniper]

Now from what the cutting tool company recommends is 500 - 2000 SFM (not coated) and Tormach machines can't cut that fast as far as RPMs go and have calculated the fastest SFM we could use on cutting 6061 aluminum would be 337 SFM...

DIA - 0.25"
RPM - 5140
= 337 SFM

Does this seem about right ?

yep. keep that .002" chip load though, if that is what the manufacture recommends.

[kevperro]

In terms of tramming the mill here is a good video.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXj1oawuptg&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube- Pro Tram.m2t[/nomedia]

This company sells this in a package for $85 plus $12 shipping. I don't own one but I'm going to pick it up along with one of their vise work-stop tools.

[twocik]

Hey nice find !!

[Magnum164]

In terms of tramming the mill here is a good video.

YouTube- Pro Tram.m2t

This company sells this in a package for $85 plus $12 shipping. I don't own one but I'm going to pick it up along with one of their vise work-stop tools.

Interesting.. One tool claims it has a patent and the other a patent pending technology.... Wonder who will sue who?