[DanOSB]

thats simple/awesome upgrade.. will do that soon hopefully.. (got find time

going to play with the torch more today..

Dan-

Here is the grill ignitor that I used. http://www.walmart.com/ip/Electric-I...ci_sku=8587363

I found this one on the Walmart site, but I purchased mine through Lowes.


The only part of the kit I used is the three ignitor wires, and the spark box.

I removed the battery, and created a plastic plug that I could connect 2 wires to. One for the positive, and one for the negative. Then poke a hole into the pushbutton retaining cap that holds the battery in place.

I ran this to a 5 vdc power transformer I already had in the electronics cabinet. Add a relay and you are done.

Instead of using electrode that came with the kit, I just mounted a piece of TIG filler rod to an insulator.

Steve

[millman52]

Tommy,

I checked into the HGX a while back. It's an addative to propane. The tank must be uncapped each fill, the HGX isn't expensive but the tank fill costs more because of the labor involved.

I was told by the tech at my welding supplier it makes the propane burn some hotter but other than that there is no real benefit. Even though the HGX people make other claims.

His words were "I'll add HGX for you, & charge you the extra money. Just don't hold it against me if you can't tell the differance."

It is my understanding you still use propane tips.

Neil

[WSS]

His words were "I'll add HGX for you, & charge you the extra money. Just don't hold it against me if you can't tell the differance."

Neil

Fair enough! My LWS sales rep is pretty straight with me, even when he has to bring in the guys with the shiny/tassled shoes. He will let them talk till they are blue and call me later and give it to me straight. He will set up any company's reps that I ask for. I have had Tweco, Victor, Miller, Lincoln, Thermco, even paint reps out here. I love to see the look on his face when they start in. I had a young Victor specialists out to show off some automated stuff and we got into a discussion about how much "quicker" propane was over acetylene for preheat. He even had a chart that he was going by. The LWS rep almost crawled away.

I have the hi/lo side of the cabinet plumbed and wired. I still need to test it. Right now it is in the basement of my house so I can work on it at night. So I will wait until I get it out to the shop to test it. Starting Friday I have a five day project that I have to be really close to the 100t press for. every 20 minutes a part will come to me that takes 5 minutes to straighten, so I will park the cabinet next to me with everything I will need and I should be able to get this puppy done in between the action.

Tommy

[DanOSB]

i finally gave up on torching holes and stuck wtih the magdrill and drill those holes out.. cleaner and easier..

im wondering do you guys normally torch holes? or? if you are doing a job for structural steel do you drill them or torch them? if you torch them could u show the pics of them..


so far i have no problem with outside profile cutting just the holes are giving me hard time..


Cheers

[WSS]

Dan, nice cuts! Are you using a annular cutter in the magdrill? What type of plate is it? Today I plasma cut some 1/2" A36 that needed 9/16" holes. I cut the holes at .5" and had .050 over on top and .050 under on the bottom, I then put the piece on my mill and drilled them .5625". I have not had luck doing small holes (YET, hi/lo coming soon...) on plate over .75" with oxy. Mostly the hurdle is the long preheat.

A side note on the subject of drilling, before we installed our cutter, we would use a annular cutter mounted in a bench top mill and hand drill, now we have way to much drilling to do it this way, I set-up a spade drill that has coolant thru it and it drills pretty darn fast. I can drill a 11/16" hole thru 1" A36 in 9seconds (of drilling, unclamping and chucking another piece takes longer).

WSS

[millman52]

I burn lots of holes with ox/fuel. As Tommy says without a gas control cabinet preheat time is an issue.

I have found to get clean small holes in what ever thickness of plate you are trying to burn it is a must to pierce pretty much dead center of the hole & use a straight lead in.

The diameter of hole is pretty much determined by the diameter of the pierce puddle that forms on top of the plate, & you can cut just on the outer edge of the puddle at it's largest point. It all boils down to getting even preheat & having a clean tip that doesn't blow all the puddle off to 1 side. I have found that around a 7/8" hole in 3/4" plate is about as small as I can consistently do. I do lots of 1/2" holes in 3/8" plate etc.

I cut lots of slots in 1" plate that are 3/4" wide X 4" long I have to pierce in one end & either grind off the pierce puddle or really slow the speed once the torch burns back around to the start point. Neither of which are doable on a small round hole.

As time goes on you will become more adept at doing things with your torch. There are lots of things that change. Some of it is beyond control, like how nasty or how deteriorated the mill scale is from batch to batch of plate. A36 burns much different than AR 400 etc.

All part of the learning curve.

[DanOSB]

ya i use anngular cutter on drill press with a adapter too..

it works really well ill look up about spade drill later and find out what it is..

its lots of work for that learning curve but i think im starting to get it.. (hopefully i actually am)


Cheers
Dan

[WSS]

Neil,
Question: How long of a delay/rise in pressure range is good for the ease-on? I have moved onto the testing phase and found that the needle valve I am using is not precise enough. Meaning I cannot repeat the same time to pressure each time, very annoying. I have a basic range of .2secs to 3secs. Will this be a slow/long enough range? Everything is working as planned except for that needle valve. Anyone have any ideas on a precision needle valve? Most of the good NV's are 3000psi and up. Nothing in the "pneumatic" range.

I have only the hi/lo gas to plumb, but know it will work as it will be the same as the oxy side. I hope to do a actual world test in a week or so.

WSS

[millman52]

Tommy, I leave mine set the same for everything. I'd have to time it with a stopwatch to know for sure but somewhere in the 2-3 second range is where I am. Probably closer 2 than 3.

I have had to tweak other things like the lead in speed to accomodate this but found that works better than trying to adjust the time delay. If you get the delay where you need it & leave it a constant everything else is pretty easy to work around.


Using a non High speed tip on 1" A36 I only delay on pierce .3 second before movement starts then use 8 IPM through the lead in length of .4-1" depending on part being cut. The Oxy always ramps up somewhere between the plate being fully pierced & the time the torch reaches the edge of the part.

Then on thinner material 1/2" - 3/8" etc usually the opposite 0.0 delay on initial movement & lead in at same rate as cut or even slightly higher. This usually works because of the excessive heat build up to pierce in thinner material.

[WSS]

That is good news. I was hoping that one setting would suffice. I did purchase a swagelock needle valve today that has about 8 times the precision (based on turns).

When you have a nest going, do you have to slow the ipm for the lead on every pierce? With we-cim, you pick one speed for the "file", I am sure if I probed deeper I could find a way to have it set per lead or pierce in the .mm2 file. I usually vary the ipm in the DT software using the "edit code" screen. variable feeds are a nice feature with oxy/fuel.

I have a feed hold button that works good for intersections in chain cutting files, I click it as soon as it hits the already cut kerf and it stops in the time it takes to cross the kerf. Wait about 2 or 3 seconds and hit the button again and along with the esc key (this by-passes the pre-heat cycle) and off it goes, no lost cuts or chewed up edges.


Here are some pics of the progress. I put a bleed off solenoid for the ease on oxy and used a check valve to keep it sealed. I probably could of skipped the check valve but could not decide if it was necessary or not. I imagined air could weep back into the line and get pushed down the hose and have a adverse effect on the cut, Have I lost the plot? For the pneumatic solenoid, I used a three way valve and used it to dump or load depending if it is on or off. When it is "on" it loads the dome to raise the cut oxy, when it is off it dumps the dome pressure. I let it dump inside the cabinet in hopes of it purging any gas/oxy build-up.

Tommy

[millman52]

That is good news. I was hoping that one setting would suffice. I did purchase a swagelock needle valve today that has about 8 times the precision (based on turns).

When you have a nest going, do you have to slow the ipm for the lead on every pierce? With we-cim, you pick one speed for the "file", I am sure if I probed deeper I could find a way to have it set per lead or pierce in the .mm2 file. I usually vary the ipm in the DT software using the "edit code" screen. variable feeds are a nice feature with oxy/fuel.

I have a feed hold button that works good for intersections in chain cutting files, I click it as soon as it hits the already cut kerf and it stops in the time it takes to cross the kerf. Wait about 2 or 3 seconds and hit the button again and along with the esc key (this by-passes the pre-heat cycle) and off it goes, no lost cuts or chewed up edges.


Here are some pics of the progress. I put a bleed off solenoid for the ease on oxy and used a check valve to keep it sealed. I probably could of skipped the check valve but could not decide if it was necessary or not. I imagined air could weep back into the line and get pushed down the hose and have a adverse effect on the cut, Have I lost the plot? For the pneumatic solenoid, I used a three way valve and used it to dump or load depending if it is on or off. When it is "on" it loads the dome to raise the cut oxy, when it is off it dumps the dome pressure. I let it dump inside the cabinet in hopes of it purging any gas/oxy build-up.

Tommy

With Sheetcam, you can set up as many tools (in this case torch tips) as you like & the program stores them. For each tip you can set up all it's parameters.
Kerf width
Feed Rate
Preheat
Pierce Delay
Pierce Height
Plunge Rate
Cut Height
Pause at end of cut.

The plunge rate is what I set to a lower value for 1" I also use a ramp lead in. What happens is as follows: Torch moves to preheat point & pauses at desired preheat height. When preheat is over the torch rapids up to preset torch pierce height & Oxygen comes on. The pierce delay holds any movement for the amount of time set (usually 0 to .3 sec.) then the X & Y lead in + torch Z moves down to cut height at the IPM rate set for the plunge or "ramp lead in"

What the slow lead in does in effect is much like piercing with a hand plasma when you lean the nozzle over to prevent molten metal from flying straight up into it. When the pierce ox comes on low I don't usually pierce clean through thick plate instantly. If the inital movement is slow any spray coming up flys away from the tip till a full pierce is achieved. On 1" I guess the total pierce time to be from .3-.6 sec.

To answer your question..... Yes the lead in is slowed down on every pierce. It's done automatically by Sheetcam from that single setting. It's not something I have to do manually by editing code or anything like that.

[WSS]

With Sheetcam, you can set up as many tools (in this case torch tips) as you like & the program stores them. For each tip you can set up all it's parameters.
Kerf width
Feed Rate
Preheat
Pierce Delay
Pierce Height
Plunge Rate
Cut Height
Pause at end of cut.

The plunge rate is what I set to a lower value for 1" I also use a ramp lead in. What happens is as follows: Torch moves to preheat point & pauses at desired preheat height. When preheat is over the torch rapids up to preset torch pierce height & Oxygen comes on. The pierce delay holds any movement for the amount of time set (usually 0 to .3 sec.) then the X & Y lead in + torch Z moves down to cut height at the IPM rate set for the plunge or "ramp lead in"

What the slow lead in does in effect is much like piercing with a hand plasma when you lean the nozzle over to prevent molten metal from flying straight up into it. When the pierce ox comes on low I don't usually pierce clean through thick plate instantly. If the inital movement is slow any spray coming up flys away from the tip till a full pierce is achieved. On 1" I guess the total pierce time to be from .3-.6 sec.

To answer your question..... Yes the lead in is slowed down on every pierce. It's done automatically by Sheetcam from that single setting. It's not something I have to do manually by editing code or anything like that.

Neil,

I have sheetcam but have not used it in production. we-cim sets the feedrate and kerf, however the rest is controlled by a small section in the DynaTorch software. It has two screens (three actually if you count the H2o jet screen) one for plasma and one for oxy. The oxy "side" has "speed to cut height" (plunge/ramp) and the PH height and cut height and pierce height windows. you can in the main settings set the buttons to re-teach or utilize as a one time adjustment, I have used both. The re-teach button works if your slat cleaner called in sick and you had to put the plate on slats that have high spots. The leads are set in we-cim with little effort. The slow lead feedrate I need to look into. The only variable feedrate I use (without manually placing it in the code) is on small holes less than 3.14", this can be changed to any rate by percentage and any size diameter, I leave it set at 60% of feedrate for holes under 1" dia. This was recommended by DT during initial set-up and I have just left it that way. On the plasma side it also freezes the THC for small holes, with oxy it just goes to cut height. I will grab a screen shot of it and post it, that will make more sense. I get lost just talking about it.

Tommy

[WSS]

Well I backed myself into a corner on the last solenoid, the hi PH fuel. I thought I should have enough room for it but will have to find a different way to mount it or a different spot. The box will be pretty much filled when all said and done, a typical problem with my projects, they cost twice the estimate and take twice the room!

Anyway, I moved onto something easy. I worked a bit with the waterslide decals. I printed the main front panel but had a problem with the polycarbonate overlay. It has to be mounted wet to get out bubbles and the slide paper had no coating so the ink would have ran. I tried to get it on dry but no luck. I will do it again and clear coat it before so I can put it on wet. I am not to sure about the adhesion yet, I may have to run it through the xyron sticker machine if it feels loose. I did put the legend on the reg manifolds, they look good. I will clear coat them again after it sets for 24hrs.


WSS

[brownbear]

Hi, I started on an old electric eye and learned that piercing during the travel while leading in gave me great looking holes and did not foul the torch. Now on my Alltra the thing can program "Cut oxy ramp time" and "pieirce ramp time". the idea being to preheat the area, then as the machine travels the cut oxy pressure increases at a slow rate. Worked for me hope this helps

[WSS]

Hi, I started on an old electric eye and learned that piercing during the travel while leading in gave me great looking holes and did not foul the torch. Now on my Alltra the thing can program "Cut oxy ramp time" and "pieirce ramp time". the idea being to preheat the area, then as the machine travels the cut oxy pressure increases at a slow rate. Worked for me hope this helps

I am close to being able to do the exact process you are doing with your Alltra. On thick plate, a plugged tip pretty much stops the show.

How does your Alltra integrate this process of ramping/easing on the cut oxy?

Tommy

[millman52]

Hi, I started on an old electric eye and learned that piercing during the travel while leading in gave me great looking holes and did not foul the torch. Now on my Alltra the thing can program "Cut oxy ramp time" and "pieirce ramp time". the idea being to preheat the area, then as the machine travels the cut oxy pressure increases at a slow rate. Worked for me hope this helps

"Cut oxy ramp time" and "pieirce ramp time". the idea being to preheat the area, then as the machine travels the cut oxy pressure increases at a slow rate.

This is exactly what we are doing in a home made sort of way.

Tommy's (WSS) should work as you have described it. I imagine however your Alltra controls the Ox pressure increase via the CNC control. Where Tommy's is more of a mechanical/pneumatic thing going on & the CNC is turning the gas control on/off.


Mine is even more basic than that with a primary & secondary regulator on the pierce ox & an electronic time delay relay switching from low to hi. At the same time the preheat Ox/Fuel diverts from being directly fed at tank regulator pressure through a pair of flow meters that greatly reduces the heat to keep from melting over the top edge while under cut conditions.

My gas control system works extremely well for only having a total investment of around $400.00-$500.00 + a couple weekends of my time in it.

I installed this home made gas control cabinet in march of this year. Acetylene cost from March 2009 through Oct,11 2009 was $929.11. Propane in that same time period in 2010 a grand total $ 117.96. Also there is absolutely no way to count the time up on preheat time other than say thousands of pierces in less than 1/4 the preheat time. This is just a wild guess but I have most likely saved a week of time in 6 months for just standing watching plate get hot enough to pierce. That would be another $2500.00 or so in billable time available.

You don't need to be a rocket scientist to tell it has been a great investment.

[WSS]

[B][I]My gas control system works extremely well for only having a total investment of around $400.00-$500.00 + a couple weekends of my time in it.

I installed this home made gas control cabinet in march of this year. Acetylene cost from March 2009 through Oct,11 2009 was $929.11. Propane in that same time period in 2010 a grand total $ 117.96. Also there is absolutely no way to count the time up on preheat time other than say thousands of pierces in less than 1/4 the preheat time. This is just a wild guess but I have most likely saved a week of time in 6 months for just standing watching plate get hot enough to pierce. That would be another $2500.00 or so in billable time available.

I will have about $1K all said and done. I decided to rebuild old regs which added a few quid.

The time saved on the pre-heat will cover that easily within the first month (I hope).

Last night I concluded that I need to re-plumb the pneumatic side, I will put the regulator before the solenoid so I can read/set the dome pressure without it actually being loaded. Simply done, I (at first) decided against it because it would route an extra pair of poly tube onto the hinged door. I think it will be worth the effort to re-do.

Cheers,
Tommy

[millman52]

Hind sight being 20/20, Knowing what I know now, etc etc. If you could buy a gas control cabinet ready to hook up & use, a $3000.00-$5000.00 investment would easily pay for itself in a year or so if the table gets used daily like mine does.

I failed to compair Oxygen usage Acetylene vs. Propane in my previous example. Ox useage went up around $200.00 in that same time period. I did notice first thing that it takes much more oxygen for the preheat flame than does Acetylene. So in reality the $811.15savings in fuel is actually more like $600.00. Still a good trade off. even without the rapid preheat.

Tommy I'm anxious for you to get up & running. I think you'll truely have one of those AhhhHa moments.

I was in a customers shop this week that is using a 8' X 20' DT table. My contact there & I just happened to be in their burning room discussing a new job. I couldn't help but notice the DT operator was cutting 1" A 36 & the preheat was taking forever. I was thinking to myself "Sure glad that isn't me anymore".

The He** of it is I had told the company's Tech guy who is also a part owner in the company. I had built a control to cut preheat time way down. I guess it just rolled in one ear & out the other because he doesn't have to deal with it daily. The shame of it is he is sharp enough to take a 1 time glance at what I have & build one himself.

"You can lead em to water but you can't make em drink" I guess

[WSS]

Hind sight being 20/20, Knowing what I know now, etc etc. If you could buy a gas control cabinet ready to hook up & use, a $3000.00-$5000.00 investment would easily pay for itself in a year or so if the table gets used daily like mine does.

I failed to compair Oxygen usage Acetylene vs. Propane in my previous example. Ox useage went up around $200.00 in that same time period. I did notice first thing that it takes much more oxygen for the preheat flame than does Acetylene. So in reality the $811.15savings in fuel is actually more like $600.00. Still a good trade off. even without the rapid preheat.

Tommy I'm anxious for you to get up & running. I think you'll truely have one of those AhhhHa moments.

I was in a customers shop this week that is using a 8' X 20' DT table. My contact there & I just happened to be in their burning room discussing a new job. I couldn't help but notice the DT operator was cutting 1" A 36 & the preheat was taking forever. I was thinking to myself "Sure glad that isn't me anymore".

The He** of it is I had told the company's Tech guy who is also a part owner in the company. I had built a control to cut preheat time way down. I guess it just rolled in one ear & out the other because he doesn't have to deal with it daily. The shame of it is he is sharp enough to take a 1 time glance at what I have & build one himself.

"You can lead em to water but you can't make em drink" I guess

Ya, I cannot wait until that "AH-HAH!" hits. I know that it will be worth every penny spent. Yesterday I slipped a small rem of 1" on the table and cut single pieces from it, I usually chain cut to save time, but this piece did not have the real estate to do it. I would start the cycle and stand and stare. I would look over at the console and wonder if I could finish it in the time I wasted staring at the flame.

On the subject of savings, I have done something like this before, with a argon gas mixer. I paid for it in six months. The kicker was switching to liquid argon from HP cylinders. I saved a packet, I think it was something in the range of $400 a month in gas alone, not counting delivery cost. I can go a step further and install a micro-bulk tank that has a cell link to let the station know when to top the tank off. The issue there was the commitment, five years if I remember right.

I am not running oxy everyday (yet!), so I will stick to HP cylinders. When it picks up, I will give it a try. I have a recent quote for a 160ltr tank at $115. That is 6000cf (or so, I forget more now that I have to wear reading glasses) per tank, lets see 6000 divided by 300 is, hold on let me find my calculator........20 HP cylinders. Worth a try if I get a long run in.


Speaking of long run, I have been getting in these bevel jobs. I am cutting a 75° bevel on 2" AR400, I have used a regular, non-hi speed tip for this and not been too happy, much grinding when done. The length of cut is almost 5". I have ordered some special bevel tips (they must be gold plated $$) for the next job. I PH'ed two passes with a heating tip and cut at 8ipm. Still had to clean on one end, the start end. It cleaned up as it cut. I could not figure what was going on.

Anyone with ideas?

WSS

[millman52]

I don't bevel anything here over 1" & it's only a 30 deg bevel. Well it's 30 from perpindicular so I guess that's a 60 deg bevel on the plate

If you aren't pre cleaning the mill scale from the AR200 that might help. Don't really Know just a thought. I find AR plate especially AR400 much harder to cut anyway

Even with this 1" bevel the standard tip must be clean & for what ever reason I have to run a good bit higher cut ox pressure.

Also at a 70 deg bevel you are cutting through 2.128" (apx.) of material.

Probably just pointing out things you have already thought of or tried. Good Luck