[mad mark]

just wanted to warn others about the new 104/d control. We have a 4020 with it and just got the new 1.05. software after many months of suffering with a machine that is a liability!! The new software is NOT a cure for many of the problems!! After one day with it I find that at random times it doesn't continue to read a G0 and begins to feed to I don't know where to. After totally restarting the machine this problem goes away for awhile, but the side affect is all tool positions are lost and some random heigth offsets are zero'd out. So basically you have to recheck and reset everything again (set-up again)!!! I will continue to post any problems with this machine until ALL of the problems are resolved with it. I have been told for the past six months that these machines run great, but from what I read there aren't many at all that do if any.

[cadman]

Fadal has pulled the 104D off the market. According to my local dealer, customers with the 104D on their machines will have it replaced with either the Fanuc or the Siemens. If you go to Fadal's website there is no longer any mention of the 104D. Should have worked out the bugs before rushing to market.

[mad mark]

Thanks for the info!!! Our dealer hasn't mentioned this to us at all. In fact quite the opposite, they say that all of them are running great except ours. I think I'll just contact the factory to find out for sure, and bypass the big talkers.

Mark

[cadman]

Let us know what happens.

[kbarratt]

We have a 4020 that won't die. It's a 1988 model. Just the normal maintainence. Replacing drawbar beleville washers a couple of times and an axis control motor or two. Over 17 years it's made it's money back quite a few times. We have two 6030s, and a 8030 also. They all have the standard Fadal controls on them. I've been considering replacing the old 4020 with a new machine, and the 104D control was what I had in mind. This thread is making me reconsider.

[cadman]

My 4020s have also been stone reliable, with no controller problems at all. I've also replaced the bellville washers a few times, 1 refrigerant pump, spindle belts, way lube lines and some misc normal wear items, but thats just normal wear. No major problems except for a spindle, and that was because of a crash. The total cost of all replacement parts is nowhere near the cost of replacing a few boards in a couple of Makinos we used to have. So I'm happy. The best upgrades we've done to our machines are the -5 controller and Pozi-drive upgrades. Haven't replaced a belt since.

If you do buy a new Fadal they list the MP controller as the standard controller.

[mad mark]

Definitely go with the mp32 controller if possible!! They are a tried and true controller that allows you to use the windows side at the same time the machine is making parts. Unlike the 104/d wich you have to log off of to get in to program on gibbscam, which we were lied to about (that and many other things).

Mark

[mad mark]

Just another update on this control. We got fadal's newest version of software about a month ago, and everything seemed to work great for a while. No critical errors or other past problems until lately. The rigid tap does not always work correctly and a spindle orientation error happens randomly and requires you to power the machine completely down to fix it. Not to mention the broken taps and bad parts this causes. It also has a random internal error that causes the machine and control to completely lock up causing you to restart the machine again. What we thought was fixed just seems to be temporary and the faults keep getting more and more frequent like a bad case of mono!

[carbidecraters]

Man........when are they going to get it right

[cmachine]

I currently have the 104d control on my new 4020 and am also having some issues with it. I am curious as to which control, Siemens or Fanuc, you would recommend. Any insite would be greatly appreciated...

[Scott_bob]

I currently have the 104d control on my new 4020 and am also having some issues with it. I am curious as to which control, Siemens or Fanuc, you would recommend. Any insite would be greatly appreciated...

Before you run out of warrantee, have Fadal Engineering come out and take it back... Then, if you are willing to continue to buy from Fadal buy one with a Fanuc control. The Siemens is a better control, but the fanuc is more common. You'll find more machinist that can operate it than you will with the Siemens...

Good luck,

[MJ3ATDIM]

THIS IS A RECENT MESSAGE I SENT FADAL.
I COULDNT FIND THIS WEB SIGHT FOR A LONG TIME.
SHOULD HAVE PAID MORE ATTENTION TO ALL OF U GUYS LAST YEAR
WHEN I RAN ACROSS IT WHILE I WAS SHOPPING FOR A MACHINE.

To Whom It May Concern:
I would like to say at this point I’m very disappointed with this controller, in
fact I’m totally fed up. I can’t trust the machine to do the simplest task.

I have been programming and making parts on CNC equipment for the past 28
years. This 104/D control has been the most frustrating experience in my entire
time as a machinist.

Take this simple little program for example.

N1 O1
N2 M6 T1
N3 E1 G0 G90 X0 Y0 S2000 M3
N4 H1 Z.1
N5 G1 Z-.1 F50.
N6 G1 G41 G91 X1.
N7 G3 I-1.
N8 I-1.
N9 G1 G40 X-1.
N10 G0 G90 Z.1
N11 M5
N12 H0 Z0
N13 E0 X0 Y0
N14 M2

Using cutter comp, I should be able to make a 2 inch hole with a
1 inch cutter, and do a spring pass. First of all; the machine never makes the second pass around. It skips over N8. Second; it dose not use cutter comp correctly, loosing it before the canceling move (gouging the part) and then picking it back up later showing an axis shift at the end of the program.

This machine is supposed to be high speed processing, I don’t see much difference in it and other machines I’ve run. And in this day and age why am I so limited with the size of the program?
If I had gotten this machine for mold making, it would not have been on our floor a week. It dose not live up to the claims.

Let me say it one more time, I cannot live with these issues regarding programming. I have to get the results that I expect or I will always be reluctant to attempt any high $$$$$$$$$ parts on this machine.
I have to have a machine I can trust.

Let me go down the list of things that have plagued this machine.

1. While tapping a 1-12 thread in steel the machine stalled out.
I don’t know if it ran out of torque or the belts slipped,
Who knows I don’t have a load meter. Regardless, I got the high
torque option. It should be able to tap a 1-8 in steel with no problem.
2. Program picks up feed rate of next block before it gets there.
3. Tool release button needs a delay.
4. No loop counter on sub program repeat.
5. Program must be re numbered before M00 or M01 will work consistently.
6. Single block dose not activate right away, and is not consistent in the way that it works.
7. Spindle and coolant used to come back on automatically after opening the doors. Now it doesn’t.
8. Can’t shut off spindle when single block is activated.
9. Program skips over blocks of information.
10. Gibbs SFP can’t be used while machine is running. Who is going
to use it if you have to shut the machine side down?



Problems that were fixed.

1. M4 remains modal.
2. X axis has not run off like it did 5-25-05.


Sincerely,

[mad mark]

I know what you mean about all of the problems, there are just to many to list on this page. Thier software upgrades are a joke and cause more unassociated problems than they fix! We are simply tired of dealing with it and told them to remove the machine within a week or it will be sitting outside in the rain. It has cost us thousands of dollars and backed us up on shipping dates beyond comprehension. I don't care what brand of machine takes its place as long as it makes good parts consistantly. At this point I can make good parts faster on an old manual bridgeport!! pathetic!! At this point I don't want a fadal machine on the floor period due to the fact that fadal engineering's support system is mass caos!

Mark

[MJ3ATDIM]

Just want to let everyone know that thru the sales rep Fadal has given us 3 options
regarding the 104/d control. And they will do the same for anyone else I'm sure.

1. Wait for next release on software (maybe mid December).

2. Retrofit with the MP control. takes 3 to 5 days.

3. Or wait 8 weeks for them to build a new machine with a Fadal MP control,
Fanuc, or Siemens control.

Any good advise out there to help me decide? I know about Fanuc but what
would the learning curb be for Siemens. And how bug proof is the MP control?

Thanks MJ

[metalwork]

I run a 3 month old fadal 4020 with a fanuc, i like it a lot.

I would ask for a new machine with the fanuc, the control is very stable. funny thing is even though it has encoders fadal still installs the line up tabs, i guess old habits are hard to quit.

[MJ3ATDIM]

Thanks for your input. I was leaning towards Fanuc. I have liked
the controls sense the 6MB.

We will make the decision today.

Sincerely MJ

[MJ3ATDIM]

mj

[REVCAM_Bob]

Well, I bought Mad Marks new 4525 with the Fanuc control. I'll let you guys know
how the transition goes in my shop. Install begins Monday. Anyone have any comments on how the fanuc control differs from the ORIGINAL fadal 88hs or 32MP control? Good or Bad?

[dmealer]

Hi guys,
I have run both Fanuc and seimens contollers over the years. Both are great. But I think the siemens is a little better. I will have to agree with scott bob. When our guy
running the siemens quite, I interviewed for 3 weeks and never found someone with experince with it. Had to get the books out and learn it myself. But on the upside, when I left that job, it only took me 2 days to train a replacment. So the siemens is easy to teach if you know what you are doing.

My 2 cents
Dalen Mealer

[TurboME]

Any updates from those with the 104/D. Did you have your machines updated with new controlls or replaced?