[Pater G.]

HI!

I NOTICED THAT MANY CHINA SUPPLIERS ARE ALSO POSTING ON THIS FORUM,
ESPECIALY WHEN YOU ASK FOR PERSONAL OPPINION.

SO LET THEM TALK, AND CONVINCE US WHY THEY THINK THAT THEIR MACHINES ARE BETER THAN THE COMPETITION.



MANUFACTURERS AND SUPPLIERS INVITED.

(MORNTECH, SUKELASER, SEFENG, REDSAIL, ETC.)

[Laserman FLE]

Just my opinion but why dont we stop buying from countries like this and start producing more products in our own countries like the USA, UK and Germany?

Our company FLE, is fully dedicated to supporting small business, individuals and large companies stay away from Chinese companies that produce sub par machines.

We need to bring the engineering and manufacturing back! Let do our part.

Is price the only reason people are choosing these type of machines? :nono:

[bpoulin]

Is price the only reason people are choosing these type of machines? :nono:

Not the only reason, but with improving customer support, and sales reps in the county the product is being sold in. The price is extremely lower, and if you go with the right company CS is as good as any other US based company.

[Tweakie]

Originally Posted by Laserman FLE

Just my opinion but why dont we stop buying from countries like this and start producing more products in our own countries like the USA, UK and Germany?

I think everybody agrees with your sentiment here Laserman.
The answer perhaps lies with the reasons behind the business growth / success of Grizzly and Harbor Freight et al. The day will come when CNC Laser Machines appear in their catalogs, on-line and in their stores.

Tweakie.

[Laserman FLE]

Originally Posted by Laserman FLE


I think everybody agrees with your sentiment here Laserman.
The answer perhaps lies with the reasons behind the business growth / success of Grizzly and Harbor Freight et al. The day will come when CNC Laser Machines appear in their catalogs, on-line and in their stores.

Tweakie.

Totally agree with you.

[lowpull]

J

Is price the only reason people are choosing these type of machines? :nono:

Same size vs same size is not a 10 percent difference in price, or a 20 percent difference in price. its 400 to 800 percent difference in price. It was a choice of buying chinese or not buying at all. I would have bought an american product if it was only 30 percent more. Now I did not buy direct from china, I bought from an american company that imports them. So If the amercican made product had been twice the price of the direct from china price, I would have bought american. But I paid 10,000 from the american company, I would have to pay 45 to 60k for the american product.

[Laserman FLE]

Same size vs same size is not a 10 percent difference in price, or a 20 percent difference in price. its 400 to 800 percent difference in price. It was a choice of buying chinese or not buying at all. I would have bought an american product if it was only 30 percent more. Now I did not buy direct from china, I bought from an american company that imports them. So If the amercican made product had been twice the price of the direct from china price, I would have bought american. But I paid 10,000 from the american company, I would have to pay 45 to 60k for the american product.

Not trying to get off subject but what did you get for $10K? Tube, bed size, accessories, etc ...

[jharvey407]

Unfortunately as long as the Chinese currency is artificially pegged to the USD their prices are going to remain artificially low.

My small company is trying to figure out how to manufacture items, like CNC machines and compete with China. I'm not sure it can be done.

[lowpull]

The 10k includes all of the below. (Approx 47x 35 x 10 table size)
rabbit 1290se with 80 watt laser. rotary attachment, photograv, refrigerated chiller, air pump, exaust fan. It also included delivery inside of my shop with a liftgate. Also owner of company is flying in to setup align and train. Included a refurb computer system and lcd screen.

[Laserman FLE]

A tube alone from Synrad would be at least that much.
Thanks for the information. There is nothing I can do as a company to compete with this if price is the end result. I just find it humorous that most of the machines in use in China for the ad specialty market are not made in China.
This is a very sad realization, as a hard working American, I can hope that this one day changes for the better.

[Litografa]

The main problem of quality made in USA laser equipment is competition from top and bottom. From bottom will be cheap Chinese manufacturers and you know how compete with them. But from top will be big 4 - Epilog, ULS, GCC and TROTEC. They have high purchasing volumes from Synrad, so their purchasing price will be significantly lower. Their support is reliable, proven. What will be your advantages compairing with BIG4?

[Litografa]

IMHO you are wrong. If you need equipment as hobby - that's OK, but if you want buy equipment to make money.....
What is your goal - spent less, or buy equipment which will work without problems for a long time?

[Laserman FLE]

IMHO you are wrong. If you need equipment as hobby - that's OK, but if you want buy equipment to make money.....
What is your goal - spent less, or buy equipment which will work without problems for a long time?

Nothing against hobbyist but if that is all you need the machine for then our machines are not for you, as Litografa stated. We build lower power machines for commercial/industrial use.

Now to answer your question ... our assumptions are that the Epilogs,, Universals ... are standard systems and they have a standard price. We build custom systems tailored to the needs of the customer for the same price or less with more power.
Does anyone know the price of a Universal or Epilog 4x4 or larger machine with at least 100W? Ours are going for $35-$40K and be custom made to user specs. We are doing things with our 100W that I dont think any Universal system does just because they dont put the money where it is needed like proper beam expansion. I believe this is becasue most of these machines are not intended for industrial use but more like trophy stores and some light cutting.

So what are some of the needs of the laser cutting/engraving community. Maybe we can address them. We are in the process of a new prototype machine. This would be a great time for all the suggestions like size, power, price points, etc? (maybe ill start another thread, sorry op)

[Pater G.]

So what are some of the needs of the laser cutting/engraving community. Maybe we can address them. We are in the process of a new prototype machine. This would be a great time for all the suggestions like size, power, price points, etc? (maybe ill start another thread, sorry op)

So can you build reliable engraver with bed size app.30-40 x 50-60cm and pover of 40-50W with all neccesary equipment like honeycomb lift table, red dot, DSP etc. priced somewhere between low cost china machines and all other reliable lasers.

[Laserman FLE]

So can you build reliable engraver with bed size app.30-40 x 50-60cm and pover of 40-50W with all neccesary equipment like honeycomb lift table, red dot, DSP etc. priced somewhere between low cost china machines and all other reliable lasers.

What is the price point?

[Litografa]

Everything is not so easy ) Inventing of better bicycle is much harder than inventing of bicycle.

I am selling laser since 1997 and only twice my customers need CUSTOM MADE LASERS.
1) The task was engraving on cheese and we sell him standart laser and just cut metal parts of laser to add non standart rotary up to 80 cm diameter.
2) Task was engraving on monuments weight over 200 kgs and once more we modified laser construction by deleting some parts and adding another

All other customers I can divide into 3 categories:
a) limited financing - Venus, C180, A4-A3 table, 12-25 Wt
b) need universal equipment - Spirit GE, GX, 55x105 cm table, 30-40-60 Wt.
c) need cutting equipment - Spirit GX, X series, 130x96 cm, 60-100 Wt.

All categories are very well covered by Epilog, ULS and Trotec also.

Now 120x120 cm 100 Wt laser. Fine, agree with you that this table size not very well covered by BIG4. Why? Why Chinese lasers have sometimes tables 120x240 cm, and BIG4 have maximum size 120x96?
Did you measure loss of power on 120x120 cm table in different points if laser tube is fixed?
Did you keep you attention on fact that all chinese big table lasers are made with moving laser source fixed on portal?

I wish you success, but have feeling that it will be hard work!

[Pater G.]

So china models are priced from 2K to 3K, GCC, Epilog starts at 8K.

So somewhere in between, like 5K

[Litografa]

Just idea of price for tube only
Synrad 48 series 12W (A) - € 1,815
Synrad 48 series 25W (A) - € 2,662
Synrad Firestar V series 30W (A) -€ 2,998
Synrad Firestar V series 40W (A) - € 3,996
Synrad 48 series 50W (L) - € 6,969
Synrad Firestar T series 60W (A) - € 7,808
Synrad Firestar T series 100W(A) - € 10,615

This is very good prices if you buy 10-20 tubes per year.

Impossible have good laser with reliable tube for 3700 Euro = $5000

[Mogal]

Interesting thread
If they can do it, why can't we?

Well, the way I see it, "WAGES" are the one big killer here. We here in the americas are not willing to accept the wages what the chinese markets work for. Our inflation rate here is much more then thiers...

There have been a number of times, I would LOVE to buy locally, but its at an absurb price, and as mentioned, if its going to get the job done, why pay the (much) HIGHER prices, even after shipping costs?

Prime example was the acme rods I purchased. I got them for $120 shipped to my door. Locally, they wanted $600 for a lower quality rod, and would have taken the same amount of time to get as it would have been a special order!!!

Local bussinesses have kicked me out the door because I have tried to barter with them. They would not even offer(or accept) a 10-15% discount. They would rather have NO business with me, then take a mild reduction in profit. So much for service at the door...

Of course, this is just MHO

[Pater G.]

TO Litografa:

Once upon a time Laserman said that he can build quality machine for any buget, so let the man talk.
BTW I+m aware of good tubes prices.

TO Mogal:
I had some similar experiences from china suppliers, once I bought head for drill press for 56€ incl.shipping, in Slovenia was the same head for 250€ (China made for EU customer). So why do not buy from them.