[ercdave]

:drowning::drowning::drowning:Yaskawa CACR-PR-02-AC3-FR Help please.

I am in need of guidence from the bright minds in this forum. I have an older pick and place machine with a useles computer, the manufacturer is out of bussines and no support is available. it has 2 Yaskawa servopack that i would like to connect to a pc and be able to run with Mach 3 and program it to perform the pick and place functions. the electronics will be removed and i will have to connect the servopacks directly to the pc but I need help with the pinout betwen the RS422 and the PC's serial port. I assume that the serial port will be the best option for this task.
the tought of converting it to stepper motors has crossed my mind since i do not have a clear understanding of servos.

I look on the archives and posts because i did not want to ask for something that is been answered before but i had no luck.

does anyone have any idea how to connect the servopack to the pc?


Thank you for your help.

[spoiledbrat]

Wash your mouth out with soap... steppers... lol. Well, just kidding.

I am looking for your documentation, and this is the closest I can find so far:
http://www.yaskawa.com/site/dmservo.nsf/link2/CFRO-5RRM9T/$file/CACR-%28SR%29%28PR%29_AA%20%28TSE-S800-2.5D%29.pdf
See page 17.
It appears that your drive is specifically position control ( not 100% sure), and this is what we want. If that is the case, we need to get a CN1 connector (this could take further research, phone calls, and an order from digikey), and the step/direction signals from your parallel port will get fed there.

Puls and Sign = Step and direction. Dont forget the 0V wires, this thing needs a ground signal too.

Page 34-35 briefly covers the dividing ratio. This is now known as electronic gear, and will be necessary to run this from mach. To set my drives (newer yaskawa drives), I set it to where 10000 pulses = 1 inch. Not quite clear how this is set on yours, but the feature is there.

Keep those servos, and give them a shot.

Rob

[ercdave]

Thank you for the reply, i have the connectorfor CN1 the connector has soldered wires so i just cut the wires just in case i for some reason need to connect it back i will know where they go. i looked at the diagram on page 17 of the manual you indicated and it is the information for the CON1 on the servopack, but ho do i know what is the corresponding pin on the serial port? and which ones do i need for the servo motor to run? also how do i get the 2 servos to work? do i need 2 serial ports on the pc?

Sorry for my lack of knowledge, i am just trying to get my machine to work again, i played with steppers but have always been intimidated by servos and never tried them.

thank you for your time and help is deeply appreciated.

[spoiledbrat]

Forget the serial port, friend. You need a parallel port (DB-25. not found on newer computers). This can be had on a 200 dollar old computer. Otherwise, think about using a smooth stepper from Warp9 Tech. Design - Home of the SmoothStepper - Home . This will get your computer to control up to 6 motors in stepper mode. The documentation from mach and/or warp 9 will explain where to send the step/direction from the parallel port / or the smoothstepper to your servo drives.

Mach 3 will drive the parallel port directly to your drives, or mach can drive the smoothstepper, via usb, to send pulses to your drives. For the extra speed, you may want the smoothstepper.

Sounds like a fun project. Good mechanicals, no skate bearings. Very straightforward.

Good luck!

Rob

[ercdave]

Rob, thank you for the advise, i will look into Mach documentation i have a computer with paralell and serial ports that i will use for this.

David

[spoiledbrat]

David,

something else to think about: for your servo-on circuit, you will need 24VDC. This is not available from the computer, so you will need a small power supply to handle that, and a relay. The relay will be controlled by Mach, via the parallel port, and should be set to apply 24VDC between terminals 7 and 8 on the CN1.
If you still have the original controller, you probably still have the 24V power supply somewhere in there.
I would apply 24VDC directly to pin 7, and apply the other side (0 VDC) through the relay to pin 8 on the CN1.

Other than the Servo On signal, you only have to worry about puls and sign. You should not have to use any of the other signals in the CN1 connector.

The parallel port can drive 6 motors just using mach. If you want more speed, go with the smoothstepper.

[ercdave]

Yes i have the power supply and the origina cables. i will connect the power as you sugested and will let you know. i have one more question? i need to be able to control 3 more relays for vacuum pump, actuator down and a part aligment claws on the machine. do i need another paralell port on the PC?

[spoiledbrat]

I think the mach documentation will tell you how many outputs you get from one parallel port.
I may be wrong here, but you do have 12 outputs (From 1 parallel port). You must configure 4 of these for your servo drives (2 ea step and direction, for your two drives). This leaves 8 outputs that can be configured to drive relays. At least one for the amp enable (servo on, both drives sharing the same relay). This leaves 7 more.

Hopefully, someone will step in here and verify the output availability.

Also, not sure how you will generate code to run this thing. Hopefully, you are willing to hand write the code, as I know of no software to generate this for you. Your outputs will be configured in the ports and pins dialog, and can be called however you like using the Gcode.

Rob

[spoiledbrat]

I wanted to clarify the electronic gearing on the servo drives.

I have newer yaskawa drives, and they work like this:
I set parameter p210 and p20E to "travel distance per shaft revolution" (in reference units, i.e. 0.0001") and "encoder resolution" respectively. Once this is done, if I command 10,000 pulses, the shaft will rotate such that the load moves 1 inch.

Yours is set with dip switches, and is a little more limited. You may not be able to use simple units (i.e. 0.001", etc), and may have to put a strange number is the motor tuning dialog, cts per inch (i.e. 2531, vs my setting of 10000). This will require you to thoroughly understand the manual, and carefully calculate the steps per inch or mm for your motor tuning settings. And by motor tuning, I am only referring to the "motor tuning" dialog box in mach, not the servo tuning done on the drive.

Happy reading, and good luck!

BTW, post a picture of that machine, and let us know what you are doing with it, if you don't mind. Keeps us all motivated!

Rob

[ercdave]

what i am planning on doing is run the machine with Mach 3, the machine has 2 heads and each head needs 2 vacuum pumps one to lower the placing nozzle and one to lift the nozle, when the nozzle reaches the up position it closes the aligment claws, this claws are interchangeable and it has four of them. the machine used to do the changes automatically but i will have to manually. since the machine has 2 heads i could have 2 different claw configuration and use the two heads. the machine has feeder ports on the back and front of the machine and i have enough mechanical feeders to populate 59 on each side. I will have to find out the coordinated of each feeder position and input that information for each program. then by cad or manually enter the placing position. i believe by using relays to control the vacuum pumps i will be able to place some parts. the machine did not have vision and it has a camera used to asist the teaching, i am planning on using for the same purpose.

i hope it works like i am planning to do.

http://www.ercpcb.com/pnp/DSC08859.JPG

http://www.ercpcb.com/pnp/DSC08851.JPG

http://www.ercpcb.com/pnp/DSC08854.JPG

http://www.ercpcb.com/pnp/DSC08855.JPG

http://www.ercpcb.com/pnp/DSC08856.JPG

http://www.ercpcb.com/pnp/DSC08857.JPG

http://www.ercpcb.com/pnp/DSC08858.JPG

[spoiledbrat]

Are those bullet casings in the last photo? Is this a high tech bullet loader???

Partially kidding. I have seen videos of these assembling circuitboard stuff. Is that what you are going to do?

Rob

[ercdave]

yes thats what i will hopefully have after i am done. i am not looking to place very small components but faster than by hand. i will post pictures of the progress.

[Adamj12b]

Ercdave,

I think I can help as I have done this. I was successful in connecting 2 of the CACR-PR servo packs to Mach3. Here is a video if you havnt seen it already. [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5TTr84M-jk"]YouTube - Yaskawa Servopack First Run with Mach3 and Smooth Stepper[/nomedia]

First thing I recomend is using a smooth stepper or other pulse generator with mach 3. These AC servos have alot of power and can complete positions very quickly. In order to take full advantage of them, you will need very fast pulses. I had the servos set up for about 2500 steps per inch and was still able to simulate 1300 IPM jobs!!

You will need to wire the alarm reset lines on the servo packs as well as the servo on signal just to get the pack to enable.

They want you to also use a signal out of the servo pack to turn on a contactor that applys or cuts power to the drive when there is a fault.

I will try and find my notes about how I hooked all this up, but im going to be doing it again this weekend so I will be sure to document.

-Adam

[ercdave]

Thank you Adam,
i have been trying with out success to get this servos to work. I am seriusly considering replacing them for steppers,this machine unfortuatelly has no support and rather than scrap it i would like to put it back to work. but i am not familiar with servos its just what the machine already had. i am resisting to the stepper servo swap so i will appreciate any help i can get.

thank you


David

[BrendaEM]

@Adamj12b, if you get a chance, please could you make a short video explaining the setup for getting them going.

It would help, and perhaps others.

Thanks : )

[Adamj12b]

@Adamj12b, if you get a chance, please could you make a short video explaining the setup for getting them going.

It would help, and perhaps others.

Thanks : )

Hello BrendaEM,

Im sorry, But I no longer have a means to set up a working system to video. These drives use an scr rectifier with phase detection to control bus voltage in the drive. Without true 3 phase power, the drive is not happy.

Sorry.

If you have specific questions, I can try and help some more.

-Adam

[BrendaEM]

Hi Adami12b,

The driver I have appears to be wired for 100, or 110 single phase. It states 100 volt on the unit.
(The motor appears to have 3-phase output, though.)

Apparently, the driver has 2 sets of terminals R and S, and r and s to activate.
I am aware that it wants 24 volts for some reason, though I haven't gotten that far because of an bad-board error code.
The unit is a take-out, and the controller may indeed be a bad unit.

I have one more controller/amplifier, but I don't want to kill it.

Thanks for responding,
Brenda

[Adamj12b]

Hello BrendaEM,

What is the model number at the top of the face of the drive? I know they made a 100V single phase version of these that were slightly different then then the ones I had. I believe the connections are the same. Also, some of these 100V ones are looking for 100VDC and not AC.

-Adam

[BrendaEM]

...Also, some of these 100V ones are looking for 100VDC and not AC. -Adam

Yikes! And 100volts DC is not only difficult to regulate but dangerous to have around.

I am looking though a manual, finding that there are at least some that are 100/115V AC Single Phase.
The unit appeared to be wired into AC "Power Filters" using black/white/ground single phase wiring, hooked up to a panel with 3 of 12-volt relays, supplied by a small 12 volt switching power supply.

Of course, they couldn't have used 24-volt relays because that would have provided me with a 24 volt power supply. I have so many wall-warts and line-lumps but non are 24 volts. Grr!

I would like to get this going, not only for its usefulness because servos are fast and strong, but also to expand my knowledge.

[BrendaEM]

I noticed something in the manual.

The unit requires 24volts DC for be activated, for proportional, as well as forward and reverse inhibits, but these inputs may only drive optocouplers.

There are 4.8K ohm resistors limiting the current on the optocouplers, which jives with 24 volts and the stated 5ma current, or 4.615 in my handy LED calculator. I
It these were changed to roughly 680 ohms (682.619) the current to the optocoupler would be the same for a 5 volt input.

In other words, they might have just assumed these would be hooked up to 24volts, because everything runs on 24volts, right?
Well, 5volts or 12volts would be easier for control circuits. And things are headed to 3.3 volts, if that would be fine over long wires.

I am going to look at the dead one. I don't think those resistors are going to be surface mount, and luckily, the circuit board only has two layers.
(I learned how to hook up Vexta 5 phase drivers by looking at the optocouplers, too, finding which are flipped for input and output, reducing 5 pairs of control wire possibilities to only 3.)