[AMA25]

Hi onoclyclone,

Which CNC conversion kit did you use?
I converted my AMA25LV last year but made my own parts as kits were unreasonably expensive imo. It was a pain as I had to dismantle, measure, reassemble then make the part.

I got my controllers, motors and couplers from cnc4you.co.uk, very quick and friendly. The guy even called me to question my decision on coupler sizes, I'm glad he did as I had ordered wrong size, most would just ship out what was ordered.

[Fastest1]

Fortunately there is no 1 way. Whatever is safe and can work for you repeatedly is viable IMO. If someone is pressing you for production times, then a change may be necessary.

[109jb]

exactly, the way he is doing it is funked up and NOT the conventional way it's done by the VAST majority here. he needs to pay attention to all the videos shown and see that the typical way is what you see being cut on your computer screen looks exactly the same way as on the machine in front of you not upside down and backwards. as for CAM c'mon, there are plenty of free or darn cheap CAM programs out there and that is what the VAST majority use around here not writing by hand. his way is certainly not newbie friendly.

The attitude that one way is right and one way is wrong is what I am trying to address. Perhaps you should send e-mails to the many manufacturers of vertical machining centers that use the table right movement as positive and tell them they are all funked up. Neither way is right and neither way is wrong as long as a right hand coordinate system is used. I am just presenting reasons why using table right and toward column may be preferred. If you prefer it the other way then I have no problem with that. Below is a screenshot from CNC Cookbook. Note the caption under the picture says that the arrows are typical VMC table movement for positive G-code direction. Sure looks like this is presenting table right and toward the column as "typical" for VMC's. Does this mean your way is wrong. No, it doesn't, but neither is the way I use it and many other VMC's. I could easily say that your way is funked up because it doesn't follow what many VMC manufacturers use in industry,, but I didn't. I only said that rather than table right for positive being "wrong", it is just different than what many others use. Note that I didn't say different from convention, because the fact that production VMC manufacturers use both methods shows that there is no"convention". If there was, then every VMC out there would be exactly the same and they are not As said, it is what you are more comfortable with since each way will work fine. Let me re-state FOR YOUR MACHINE IT IS WHAT YOU ARE MORE COMFORTABLE WITH. Likewise, for my machine it is what I am more comfortable with. Neither way is wrong but I don't feel that newbies to CNC should not be told that there is only one way that is right. Some may prefer it one way and others may prefer it another but they should know that either way will work fine and there is nothing wrong with it.

Attachment 261964

[onocyclone]

Hi onoclyclone,

Which CNC conversion kit did you use?
I converted my AMA25LV last year but made my own parts as kits were unreasonably expensive imo. It was a pain as I had to dismantle, measure, reassemble then make the part.

I got my controllers, motors and couplers from cnc4you.co.uk, very quick and friendly. The guy even called me to question my decision on coupler sizes, I'm glad he did as I had ordered wrong size, most would just ship out what was ordered.

Hi buddy,

I got the ball screws from Automation technologies inc.

Very little modding required and a straight bolt on fit.
One thing however. Don't follow my driver set up because it results in a slow machine. ! Accurate but damn slow haha

Good luck pal, if you need some help regarding the dissemble or functionality please ask.

[onocyclone]

The attitude that one way is right and one way is wrong is what I am trying to address. Perhaps you should send e-mails to the many manufacturers of vertical machining centers that use the table right movement as positive and tell them they are all funked up. Neither way is right and neither way is wrong as long as a right hand coordinate system is used. I am just presenting reasons why using table right and toward column may be preferred. If you prefer it the other way then I have no problem with that. Below is a screenshot from CNC Cookbook. Note the caption under the picture says that the arrows are typical VMC table movement for positive G-code direction. Sure looks like this is presenting table right and toward the column as "typical" for VMC's. Does this mean your way is wrong. No, it doesn't, but neither is the way I use it and many other VMC's. I could easily say that your way is funked up because it doesn't follow what many VMC manufacturers use in industry,, but I didn't. I only said that rather than table right for positive being "wrong", it is just different than what many others use. Note that I didn't say different from convention, because the fact that production VMC manufacturers use both methods shows that there is no"convention". If there was, then every VMC out there would be exactly the same and they are not As said, it is what you are more comfortable with since each way will work fine. Let me re-state FOR YOUR MACHINE IT IS WHAT YOU ARE MORE COMFORTABLE WITH. Likewise, for my machine it is what I am more comfortable with. Neither way is wrong but I don't feel that newbies to CNC should not be told that there is only one way that is right. Some may prefer it one way and others may prefer it another but they should know that either way will work fine and there is nothing wrong with it.

Attachment 261964

So the point of the arrow is the + ?

[hoss2006]

Chill the heck out 109jb, I stated there are different ways to set a machine up i.e. our matsuura but I was helping with HIS machine with Mach 3 and the way the jog keys were operating opposite of what HE was expecting after he had changed controllers,

the Jog works in the wrong directions.

The point being that the table moves in the opposite direction of the apparent tool movement on the part on screen. I made NO blanket statement that there is one and only one way to set up a machine. To each his own, Have a Merry Xmas all.
Hoss

[LeeWay]

Right. From the G54 point or your part zero. Not necessarily machine home.

[109jb]

Hoss, I'm chill. Actually very chill especially since I only have a little finish up work on the new house and workshop. Will finally have my G0704 running by the the new year after more than a year of it being dormant due to the house selling/building adventure. I had absolutely no problem with any of your posts and hope you didn't get that impression. You are actually the only one that said there was another way and you had actually experienced it on a production machine. Others however did not take the same attitude. Many who come to this site and read these threads are learning and to hear that there is only one way that is right I feel is a disservice to them. In the end I could really care less how anyone else chooses to set up their machine, but feel that having all of the info to base that decision is what is really important..

[109jb]

So the point of the arrow is the + ?

As the caption says, "Note: arrows show table motion in positive g-code direction." so it is the direction the table moves when you program a positive move in G-code

[LeeWay]

Since everyone mentioned it, it should also be explained how to adjust axes when you want or need them to work in a different direction. I need that info too.
I know one way to change direction is under the Homing and Limits tab. My little mill moves correctly as you would think. Press right arrow key and the part moves to the right of the spindle. Up arrow moves the part toward the column.

My Pulsar is just the opposite. My Torus was too, but I changed something else in it to get it to act like my little mill.
I would like to do the same to the Pulsar but do not recall where I changed it. I know it is not under the Homing and Limits. That would change the part direction as well. I only need to change the jog direction in X and Y. Z is correct.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Since everyone mentioned it, it should also be explained how to adjust axes when you want or need them to work in a different direction. I need that info too.
I know one way to change direction is under the Homing and Limits tab. My little mill moves correctly as you would think. Press right arrow key and the part moves to the right of the spindle. Up arrow moves the part toward the column.

My Pulsar is just the opposite. My Torus was too, but I changed something else in it to get it to act like my little mill.
I would like to do the same to the Pulsar but do not recall where I changed it. I know it is not under the Homing and Limits. That would change the part direction as well. I only need to change the jog direction in X and Y. Z is correct.

Lee,

Change the hot key assignments. It's the Novakon machines that defy convention...

Regards,
Ray L.

[LeeWay]

Thanks, Ray.
That was it. I knew it was easy and probably why I didn't remember it. All better now.

[onocyclone]

Hi guys,

I've been milling a lot of jobs now and found the mill to be machining madly. It is super accurate in Z but x and y leave bad measurements in finished parts. I've set the machine up by zeroing a DTI on a block and moving 100mm and back to zero. These tests show perfect results but when it comes to machining it's bad. Also circles have flat spots at 0-90-180-270 degrees. Any ideas ?!?!?

[onocyclone]

Attachment 263892

[phomann]

Hi,

The flat spots at 0-90-180-270 will be due to backlash in the axes. This could be in the screw nuts, motor couplers, etc.

Cheers,

Peter

[onocyclone]

But why would the DTI show perfect measurements ?

[Kenny Duval]

Do you have the backlash comp at 100% of the feed rate. I cut mine down to about 20% as it would move the table just enough to leave flat spots at those locations.

[onocyclone]

It's at 20. I think it's the ****ty couplers. They twist when they move slowly. I need to make some solid ones to eliminate this issue

[Fastest1]

Do not use solid couplers. Use the acetal disc versions. Or make them.

[photomankc]

It's at 20. I think it's the ****ty couplers. They twist when they move slowly. I need to make some solid ones to eliminate this issue

Solid couplers will buy you new headaches when shafts break. Oldham couplers are what you want to use.


As for the why your DTI readings are spot on: Think of it just like manual machining and backlash. Each approach you make from the same direction will be as accurate as the screw on the machine is. It's the reversal where the error shows up. So you approach, touch off the DTI to 0 and then you reverse away by 100mm. It's extremely likely that it moved LESS than 100mm away. First it has to take up all the slack in the screw, bearings, coupler, ect. Then it starts moving the table. Now it is at say 99.750mm away from your block but you can't see that. So now you reverse again and return to the block. Same thing, it has to take up all the slack, JUST LIKE YOU DID WHEN YOU FIRST APPROACHED, and head back to the block. Boom, the DTI lands exactly where it was before. Your position is repeatable but only in one direction.

Better backlash test is to approach and zero as you did before but now do incremental jogs of maybe 0.01mm the opposite direction, the number of jogs needed before the needle moves will tell you the amount of backlash you need to compensate for.