[SWATH]

With the exception of a damaged and repaired axial power supply board, they said all my components tested ok and are shipping them back. We'll see how they work but I expect them to behave the same. I now need to somehow alter my supply power with a transformer/conditioner/filter device to make it work.

[SWATH]

I ordered a 20amp double pole GFCI breaker for $110, man those things are expensive. Just looking at transformers they appear to be around $500 new.

I was looking at this one, I'm assuming I need a 5kVA:
C1F005WES Products

There are cheaper one on ebay but I don't quite know if they are the same.

I still don't know exactly what I need. I cannot get a commercial electrician out here period, I can't even get one to return my phone calls. The power company will not lower the voltage anymore. The residential electricians I've had out don't seem to know anything outside of residential issues, and my EE friend is very busy and unavailable. Does anyone know of a 240v 20amp surge protector? Will a transformer behave as a surge suppressor? Sorry for the stupid questions, I just didn't know I would have to be an electrician to power this machine.

Essentially I need to:
A. lower the voltage by about 10v
B. provide protection from transient spikes
C. provide surge protection

Then if I still have a problem, look into what I can do with the ground

[slowtwitch]

Swath, Where are you located???

pete

[SWATH]

Swath, Where are you located???

pete

Northern Kentucky

[allenj20]

Double post

[allenj20]

I have a 240v 20amp Nema 6R surge suppressor filter I bought from electronic specialists inc. However they appear to be no more. What about these encapsulated transformers from automation direct.

500 Error)

Also here is a really expensive UPS option

http://www.antarespro.com/48514-item...12d317d313d308

[chipmiser]

I ordered a 20amp double pole GFCI breaker for $110, man those things are expensive. Just looking at transformers they appear to be around $500 new.

I was looking at this one, I'm assuming I need a 5kVA:
C1F005WES Products

There are cheaper one on ebay but I don't quite know if they are the same.

I still don't know exactly what I need. I cannot get a commercial electrician out here period, I can't even get one to return my phone calls. The power company will not lower the voltage anymore. The residential electricians I've had out don't seem to know anything outside of residential issues, and my EE friend is very busy and unavailable. Does anyone know of a 240v 20amp surge protector? Will a transformer behave as a surge suppressor? Sorry for the stupid questions, I just didn't know I would have to be an electrician to power this machine.

Essentially I need to:
A. lower the voltage by about 10v
B. provide protection from transient spikes
C. provide surge protection

Then if I still have a problem, look into what I can do with the ground

SWATH,

I am new to CNCZONE. I started looking around after having problems with my mikini 1610L spindle speed control. I believe the spindle problem is TOOL issue several owners are having and I don’t think there is a fix for the problem. I have chased the same line voltage, line imbalance, floating ground issues. My line voltage is well within spec and I have run dedicated ground lines with no resolution.
Has anyone had a problem with spindle RPM drop and found a solution?

[SWATH]

SWATH,

I am new to CNCZONE. I started looking around after having problems with my mikini 1610L spindle speed control. I believe the spindle problem is TOOL issue several owners are having and I don’t think there is a fix for the problem. I have chased the same line voltage, line imbalance, floating ground issues. My line voltage is well within spec and I have run dedicated ground lines with no resolution.
Has anyone had a problem with spindle RPM drop and found a solution?

Very interesting. Please give us more info on what exactly you are experiencing with the spindle. How old is the machine, what are your recorded voltages, etc.? As much info as you can think of might be useful.

[chipmiser]

I first noticed the spindle problem when drilling at ~ 1000RPM. The spindle stalled and overloaded the Z drive. I then did some checking and found that when running no load and less than 1000RPM, the spindle speed will drop by about 200rpm then recover. This happens at about 1 minute intervals.
I did the hall effect timing procedure first and have been chasing the floating ground ghost ever since.
My line voltage is between 235 and 241VAC. I have added a dedicated ground cable to a ground stake, and measured for transient voltages between the house ground and the separate shop ground and see no more than 10mv.
Another spindle behavior that I notice is during startup. Run-up from 0 to say 4000RPM, the spindle surges about 10 times before stabilizing at the set RPM. Once there, as long as it is above 1000, I have not seen any problems with RPM drop under load. With Al and a 3/8” cutter I usually run 300-400SFM and 1 to 4 mil chip load.
I believe I am seeing the same behavior that SIMEYFACE is: Mikini Spindle problem - YouTube

[SWATH]

Thanks for the details. BTW I'm Simeyface (or that was my dog Simon). Yup your issues sound identical to mine. So in your estimation you think this is a spindle motor issue or a spindle driver board issue and not related to your power supply or ground?

How can we fix this problem? It's weird not everyone seems to have the rpm dropping issue. What does Mikini say about it?

I installed the GFCI breaker in the panel last night and tested to make sure it trips when I press the button, so that is all set. Just waiting on my components to arrive.

[SWATH]

I got my components back from Mikini today. Unfortunately they included none of the little things like coolant nozzles and fuses and whatnot that they said they were going to send out but at least I got my stuff back. I won't have time to put it all back together before I head out of town but I'll be back next week to dive into into it. First thing I need to do is make a backup image of the harddrive in case my computer gets corrupted again.

As far as the GFCI breaker goes, I got the wrong one. I got one for personal protection that trips at 5Ma fluctuation instead of the Equipment Protection Device that trips at 30Ma. I don't know if I can use the one I have currently as I think it would probably trip all the time, which sucks because the 30Ma one is almost $200 (and that's the cheapest)! I mean seriously?!?...$740 for a breaker: http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=us.
I may give the one I have now a shot and see if it trips.

[chipmiser]

Yes, I believe it is either a spindle or controller issue. I am going to do some research on the ground topic to put that to rest, then ask for some hard parts.

Acronis is a great disk imaging software for ~$40. I put a USB WD passort drive in the electronics cabinet, works great for security.

[SWATH]

Yes, I believe it is either a spindle or controller issue. I am going to do some research on the ground topic to put that to rest, then ask for some hard parts.

Acronis is a great disk imaging software for ~$40. I put a USB WD passort drive in the electronics cabinet, works great for security.

I actually have Acronis and that is what I am going to use. Let us know what you find out, I have been unable to find any issues with my ground, and when I say I, I mean 3 different electricians and an electrical engineer with an oscilloscope. I also had a ground test done and it showed that is was fine. They just shrug their shoulders and say "I don't know what to do for you, we don't see a problem here".

[slowtwitch]

Hello folks, I was going to post this under my own thread, but, felt that Swath's thread has gained a somewhat catch all status for Mikini problems, so here we go.

My journey began the second day I owned my mill. First of all let me state the I did buy the mill used. I was told it was in working order and trusted the sellers claims. Hey, it's a Mikini right.....

The spindle ran great the first day. It did seem to have a delayed start of about 10 seconds before the spindle would move at start up. I emailed Phil about this and was told that the hall sensors may need adjustment. After making some adjustments, the motor ran smoothly. But, after a few moments, i would start having issues again. Now the spindle will only run in reverse. Again, I contact Phil. I was told that i have electrical problems and that they would need to be checked out.

In the mean time, Phil suggested that I send the motor and driver back to Mikini for testing. I will say that Phil does try his best. He has given me some warranty, as if I was the original owner. The bench time and repairs where all done at no cost to me.

Before I go further, I want you to know that in another life, I was in the electric motor repair business (Westinghouse Electric Repair) for close to 20 years and some of the things I've heard from Mikini and seen here are full of bull.

After receiving the motor and driver, mikini did some testing. They told me that the driver tested good, but, the motor had a broken lead. This was odd, as the motor ran good, but, only in one direction. I queried Phil about this and was told that the lead may have broken when I removed the motor from the mill, or in transport. they also told me that my hall sensor had a broken lead.

Let me say something here, has anyone ever seen the inside of an electrical motor??? This things are tied in with cord and varnished dipped and in some cases vacuumed impregnated, then baked. They are somewhat rock hard. Anyway, the lead in question was broken where the cable is brazed to the winding and tied in, dipped and baked. I don't know how many small motors I carried by the leads and never once broke a connection at the winding.

Phil tells me that I need a new motor. Almost $1000 for a new one, but, he does have a used one for over $500. I take the used one. I also ask for the old motor back. I also needed a new hall sensor ring, as the old one also had a broken lead..another $100.

When the package arrived, I was excited. I open the box containing the newer motor and very quickly my excitement dampened. As I removed the motor, i noticed the pulley on the shaft wasn't seated properly. the shafts on these motors have a step in them. when the pulley is installed, it should rest against the shoulder. My pulley still needed to go about .1875" to meet this shoulder. I also noticed this.....



It appears that someone used a ball-peen hammer to install the pulley. This was a pristine pulley before Mikini got a hold of it. The problem here is that these pulleys have to be heated very nicely, as these are shrink fit setups. no set screws. The amount of force needed to bang on one of these things can mess up the bearing....and you guessed it. The bearing in my newer motor was really rough.

Fortunately, I had asked for my old motor back and being that they where the same, I decided to switch rotors. One thing I failed to mention, the pulley was also installed cocked. It took a ton of pressure and heat to remove it on my press and it looked like the shaft was scoured, hence, me switching the rotor.

After switching the rotor, installing the hall sensor ring, I started the motor. The motor ran like silk. My hopes were short lived. after a few moments, i started having the start up problems and then the motor would only run in reverse...again.

I contacted Phil...again. I told him about the reverse only issue and again mentioned to him that I feel that there is a problem with the driver or panel. He still insists that i have transient ground currents, or some other voltage problem. He recommended that I get an EPD (equipment protection device), have my electrical system checked out by a more competent person, etc, etc, etc. I also told him about the pulley and the shoddy install, causing the bearing to be bad. He told me that he would look into it and definitely correct thier pulley install procedure.

Phil also offered me a new motor, i guess he felt bad about the bearing thing. When the motor arrived, i couldn't get it to run at all.

This time Phil asked me to ship both motors back, the driver and the front panel for testing.

After a week or two, I finally heard from Phil and was told that the motor that i switched the rotors (he called it the hybrid) was faulty due to the rotor swap. It apparently failed a load test. I had this motor running in both directions, however short, but it did run with plenty of power. Phil was suggesting that the rotors are somehow custom made and matched for each stator...bullcrap. These things are mass produced at one place and the stators are wound in another and some poor soul just takes what ever rotor is in line and shoves it into a stator core.

Phil also told me that they found an intermittent problem with both the driver and front panel. He told me that this was a rare occurrence, that two boards have an issue at the same time. He gave me a couple of options, I can have the front panel repaired or i can buy a new one, so that i could get my parts back quicker. I decide on the repair, the new front panel would have cost $1400. They also made some repairs to the driver board.

Yesterday, my parts finally arrived. I actually wasn't to excited. hell, I just went through a couple months of this and the results have been the same...bad. I'm on the verge of losing my small start up business, for which I bought this mill, due to all theses delays. Anyway, i open the box containing the motor and sure enough, the pulley was banged on again. I have a brand new motor with a bad bearing.

You can hear it here...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzrQBVCAUaI]DSCN3760 - YouTube[/ame]

Some observations about my parts. Phil told me that they replaced the keypad on the front panel and made repairs to the board. The front panel I sent Phil was marked and tagged showing where all the connectors go, the panel I received didn't have any markings. I also noticed the lpt2 connector on the panel has a broken bit on it...you can see it in the video. the panel i sent Phil wasn't. Also, the driver board appears to be a diffrent board. I don't understand why tell me that you repaired my boards, but, send me different ones????

Lastly, i've made a dicision to not deal with Mikini any more. I've lost so much valuable time and I can't afford to lose anymore. I may have found an AC\vector drive to replace the 2.2kw motor that came on the Mikini. I will also replace all the proprietary electronic nonsence and replace them with products I can buy for a ton less and get them so much quicker. My projected cost for the AC motor, vector drive and breakout boards will be far less than the price of a Mikini front panel and will probably be more reliable.

My advice to Mikini is start listening to your customers and stop blaming them for Mikin's issues. There must be a reason why it's near impossible to find a 2.2kw BLDC motor and drive for sale or that the other makers of these hobby mills are going a different direction. Yes Mikini, your mill is a hobby mill and don't think otherwise. It has the foundation of being a great hobby mill, but, you do have issues. A hobby mill does not require an electrical engineer, epd, transformers, etc, etc, etc as a prerequisite for install. I can see if it was a Haas or some other big name machine, with its own operating system and such. But, your using Mach3, it's not rocket science.

Before getting this mill, i've never seen a CNC machine. In the months that i have owned it, i've picked up on G-code, taught myself to use a cad program. I've even rebuilt and converted an EMCO 120p lathe to run on Mach3. I've installed all new electronics and have started to cut air and boy how sweet it runs.

Sorry for the long post, i guess its just frustration setting in. I hope that all of you who are having problems, have them resolved in a quick manner.

Good Luck

pete

[SWATH]

Thanks for sharing your story Pete. I have a question for you. If you run your new motor for say 5-10min at low RPM <1000, do you experience any RPM fluctuation? More specifically do you see or hear any sudden dips in RPM whereupon it immediately attempts to recover over about 5-10sec.?

[Brian L]

Pete, and everybody else....

Nice to see somebody not drinking the Mikini koolaid and buying into all the "your power is corrupt, your ground is bad.... it's not Mikini's fault, it's yours". I was (was being the operative word) very interested in one of these machines as the size and enclosure would work well for me. After emailing back and forth with Phil and getting the "we won't show you that part, or tell you this" treatment (I am in a wheelchair and wondered what the chassis/stand looked like underneath for knee clearance at the machine, i.e. how close can I tuck myself in there to reach inside the machine) I started having a bad feeling.

This forum (thank goodness it exists) has brought to light some major issues with the machine and more specifically with the lack of support and the uncalled for "blame game". I feel terrible for those of you that are basing your possible income on these machines, having fooled with them for months and in some cases years and yet to have a profitable and reliable piece of equipment. All I can say is thank you for saving others the same grief.

Phil (Mikini) should abandon the whole drive/motor system and move forward, this alone will most likely kill the machine and make you all owners of orphans.

[SWATH]

Hi Brian,
I would be happy to send you pics and measurements of anything you want to know but I assume you are much less interested now. The new Series III Tormach looks good.

[Brian L]

Swath,

Thanks for the offer, but with the help of this group, I was able to see pictures of the base, I think in Phil's delivery pictures and somebody else posted pics.... so my questions there were answered. I have since decided to go with an old machine (looking for a Shizuoka AN-S) and retrofit to Mach 3 or EMC if required. I used to have a couple of the Shiz's back in my machine shop, so know the iron pretty well.

I designed and now make some of my own product and the Mikini is too small for it. I need 24" x 16" of XY for this particular part... although currently I have a friend with a Haas VF-3 that is running them cheaply enough for me that it would take a lot of them to pay for my own machine.... although it forces me to run the parts in larger batches than I would like, and they have some hefty material costs... so a rather large investment for each batch.

I just went down a similar road about 10 years ago with a piece of woodworking equipment, they decided to offer a VFD to drive the machine from single phase 220 and the engineers specified a 2.2kw (3hp) VFD to drive a 5hp motor (which needs more like 4kw). On paper the VFD has a short time frame allowance of an overage for amp draw... in reality, that's measured in microseconds and every time I would make the slightest bit taxing of a cut, the VFD would think it was overloaded and go into protection mode and shut down.

I went through the whole, "it's your fault, you don't know what you are doing, you are using the wrong blade, your power isn't right", and on and on... Until I contact the motor manufacturer and the VFD builder and proved that the VFD supplied wouldn't drive the motor. Which forced the manufacturer of the machines to end up removing and replacing something on the order of 250 VFD's... a very costly ooops, I'm sure.

So, needless to say, I feel for you guys and I hope you can get it all worked out.... the basic design of the Mikini has a lot of promise, if the components would just hold up... probably the strong point of the Tormach mills, anything on them can be replaced with pretty much off the shelf parts from anywhere.

[mcphill]

Hello folks, I was going to post this under my own thread, but, felt that Swath's thread has gained a somewhat catch all status for Mikini problems, so here we go.

I for one think it would be much more valuable if you could start your own thread. Having "all the issues" in one thread doesn't make sense to me.

If you make progress on your AC drive "up"grade, I am sure MANY of use will be interested, so please keep us posted!

[SWATH]

Alright I actually got a chance to put some or the components back in. The preliminary result is that the axis drives now once again move, which is great. The problem is now the spindle won't start or do anything. Everything is hooked up like it was before and nothing. I measure voltage going into the board at 243v but I can't measure coming off the board yet without someones help because if I try to manually start the spindle nothing happens for about 3 sec. then the spindle halt alarm comes on. I tried to adjust the hall effect sensor all around but it didn't help. I'll to double check everything tonight if I get time.