[hoss2006]

Hoss,

I went ahead and removed the table and saddle on my G0704 and cleaned everything up. Reassembled and adjusted gibs and backlash nuts on X and Y. Lubed up ways with Vactra 2 and oiled the leadscrews with 30 weight oil. Everything is running nice and smooth and slippery.

Is there any reason to tear into the head and column at this point? The Z seems to run very smooth with the way oil, although going up requires a more work than going down.

Originally I was very hesitant to tear into the table and saddle for fear of boogering up something. You and others encouraged me quite a bit, and now I'm really glad I did because now everything on the table/saddle is cleaned, lubed, and adjusted properly, plus now I am very familiar with how everything goes together and how everything works. I'm equally hesitant on tearing apart the head and column...

I looked on your G0704 page but couldn't find what recommendations you had for face mills.

Titaniumboy

You learn by doing so jump in there and make sure the z has no burrs and is adjusted too.
Don't have a facemill category yet but a real nice one would be either the FM45-300 or FM90-300 from Glacern.
Hoss

[Titaniumboy]

Fastest and Hoss,

Thanks for the replies and encouragement. You've convinced me to take the dive into the deep end again.

So do I take off only the head, or both the head and column?

I decided to make the tramming aids with the mill as-is. I noticed that Hoss's drawing for the tramming aid has a dimension of 0.059" where the setscrew is located. Odd dimension - why is this 0.059" instead of 0.0625" (1/16")? Is there something critical in the dimension that I'm missing?

I've got the stock for tramming aids to the point where I've got a .5" x 1.0" x .375 thick rectangular piece of steel. It looks like I've got 0.375" on one side of the short dimension and 0.377" on the other side of the short dimension. I'm not sure if this is a tramming problem in Y yet, or if my 4" Enco milling vise is lifting the stock along the back jaw. I suspect my vise is the main culprit because the back parallel becomes loose whereas the front parallel is normally staying tight.

Out to the garage to finish the tramming aids, and then later to review the four Hoss tramming videos. I've had a .0005 DTI and 1" dial indicator for ages. Do I need anything else for the tramming exercises?

Thanks!

Titaniumboy

[Fastest1]

I would take the head off of the Z carriage first. Then the rest is easy to deal with. I would remove the column too since you are there. Clean everything up and debur, lube and reinstall. On the tramming, it sounds like you have the neccessary tools. I found if you use a granite floor tile as a surface it is as parallel as you are going to get. They are much less expensive than a true surface plate. Try to find any variation in 1. They are polished on large almost optical quality machines. Usually available in 12 x 12 or 18 x 18. A few extras are great to sand things on or as a bluing table.

[hoss2006]

Fastest and Hoss,

Thanks for the replies and encouragement. You've convinced me to take the dive into the deep end again.

So do I take off only the head, or both the head and column?

I decided to make the tramming aids with the mill as-is. I noticed that Hoss's drawing for the tramming aid has a dimension of 0.059" where the setscrew is located. Odd dimension - why is this 0.059" instead of 0.0625" (1/16")? Is there something critical in the dimension that I'm missing?

I've got the stock for tramming aids to the point where I've got a .5" x 1.0" x .375 thick rectangular piece of steel. It looks like I've got 0.375" on one side of the short dimension and 0.377" on the other side of the short dimension. I'm not sure if this is a tramming problem in Y yet, or if my 4" Enco milling vise is lifting the stock along the back jaw. I suspect my vise is the main culprit because the back parallel becomes loose whereas the front parallel is normally staying tight.

Out to the garage to finish the tramming aids, and then later to review the four Hoss tramming videos. I've had a .0005 DTI and 1" dial indicator for ages. Do I need anything else for the tramming exercises?

Thanks!

Titaniumboy

The .059 isn't critical it's just clearance for the head so there is some adjustment available when the aide is tightened on the z slide.
There are several tools shown in the videos for the different ways you can tram.
A dti is all you really need.
Hoss

[109jb]

...I suspect my vise is the main culprit because the back parallel becomes loose whereas the front parallel is normally staying tight....

Are you just clamping it in the vise and that's it? It is common to use a dead blow mallet to tap the workpiece down in the vise. That will snug up your parallels.

[hoss2006]

Thanks, I forgot I was going to mention that to him too.
Something I do as second nature.
Hoss

[Titaniumboy]

Fastest1 and Hoss,

I know I didn't mention it in my posts above, but I also habitually use my dead-blow hammer to reseat the part after tightening the vise. In fact I usually do a partial vise tightening, hammer, tighten the vise even more, and rehammer.

The G0704 certainly doesn't leave a lot of room to swing the dead-blow hammer sometimes, at least compared to the Bridgeports I've used in school. A lot of times I'll find myself cranking the part in X so that it clears the head just so I'll have swinging room.

The surprising thing to me is that I was able to tell by feel that the part varied .002" in only 1/2". I could definitely feel that the part had an angle. I would have bet $100 (and lost) if somebody had told me they could feel such a small discrepancy by touch alone.

Change of subject. What kind of process do you guys have when you have to do 2 to 10 holes. For me, this usually involves center drilling, drilling, and finally countersinking. Do you usually do all the center drilling on all of the holes, then change out to the drill, and then finally do all the countersinking? Or do you do the three tool changes on each hole? I'm trying to do the first method since it involves a lot less tool changes, but I'm finding it challenging sometimes to keep track of where all my holes are, especially since I don't have any sort of DRO yet.

Titaniumboy

[hoss2006]

Fastest1 and Hoss,

I know I didn't mention it in my posts above, but I also habitually use my dead-blow hammer to reseat the part after tightening the vise. In fact I usually do a partial vise tightening, hammer, tighten the vise even more, and rehammer.

The G0704 certainly doesn't leave a lot of room to swing the dead-blow hammer sometimes, at least compared to the Bridgeports I've used in school. A lot of times I'll find myself cranking the part in X so that it clears the head just so I'll have swinging room.

The surprising thing to me is that I was able to tell by feel that the part varied .002" in only 1/2". I could definitely feel that the part had an angle. I would have bet $100 (and lost) if somebody had told me they could feel such a small discrepancy by touch alone.

Change of subject. What kind of process do you guys have when you have to do 2 to 10 holes. For me, this usually involves center drilling, drilling, and finally countersinking. Do you usually do all the center drilling on all of the holes, then change out to the drill, and then finally do all the countersinking? Or do you do the three tool changes on each hole? I'm trying to do the first method since it involves a lot less tool changes, but I'm finding it challenging sometimes to keep track of where all my holes are, especially since I don't have any sort of DRO yet.

Titaniumboy

In that case it would make sense to do the 3 operations then move to the next hole.
A DRO makes it easier to do one operation per hole doing all spot drilling first on each location then drilling and so on.
I usually did that if one or more operations had a fixed depth to cut down on the # of depth settings, do it once then run all holes.
CNC of course makes sense to do the one op, many hole method.
What I usually did was use the spot drill or center drill and go deep enough the first time
to also form the chamfer then the hole just needs drilled.
Also if you have lots to do and need to speed production you can use combo bits that do it all in one bit like we used in the shop I ran, some for counter boring too for socket head screws.
Some taps come with the drill tip too for power tapping or use with a procunier.
Hoss

[Titaniumboy]

Hoss,

Thanks for the reply.

What I usually did was use the spot drill or center drill and go deep enough the first time to also form the chamfer then the hole just needs drilled.

We've done this extensively in the CNC classes I've taken at the community college. Didn't think to try it during manual machining.

I didn't know about the combo bit, but it sounds like a good idea in a production environment. Bet they are expensive.

It sucks not having a DRO, but it doesn't make sense to put them on this mill since I'm someday going to CNC it. I'm just trying to get some nice manual machining time on the mill.

Regarding the tramming aid.
1. The drawing shows a diameter of 0.203" for the 1/4-28 thread. My Shop Reference manual shows .213 (#3 drill) for an 80% thread, .2187 (7/32 drill) for a 67% thread, and .221 (#2 drill) for a 63% thread?

2. I assume the .256 hole is for a 1/4" SHCS? I don't have a letter or number drill for .256. My Shop Reference shows .266 (17/64 drill) for a "close fit" for the thru hole. The drawing shows a .375 counterbore, but Shop Reference is showing .4375 (7/16 drill) for the counterbore?

Thanks again for all your help.

Titaniumboy

[hoss2006]

Hoss,



Regarding the tramming aid.
1. The drawing shows a diameter of 0.203" for the 1/4-28 thread. My Shop Reference manual shows .213 (#3 drill) for an 80% thread, .2187 (7/32 drill) for a 67% thread, and .221 (#2 drill) for a 63% thread?

2. I assume the .256 hole is for a 1/4" SHCS? I don't have a letter or number drill for .256. My Shop Reference shows .266 (17/64 drill) for a "close fit" for the thru hole. The drawing shows a .375 counterbore, but Shop Reference is showing .4375 (7/16 drill) for the counterbore?

Thanks again for all your help.

Titaniumboy

Yeah that's what alibre called for a 1/4-28 hole and it dimensioned it itself.
I use a #3 drill, if you don't have a complete set of bits you should get some.
I have some decent USA made bit sets recommended here.
Shop Info
I'm used to running at closer tolerance than your reference, .256 and a 3/8 cbore is plenty.
Hoss

[hoss2006]

Thought some of you might be interested in my latest project though a little ot.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/1176186-post936.html
Hoss

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKm5rGLL-Lk&feature=plcp]RC Patio Door Opener - YouTube[/ame]

[aarggh]

That's brilliant Hoss! As long as it even tenuously involves machines or machining it's never off topic!

With that camera all you need to do now is incorporate some facial recognition so it will recognise only the dog and open/close it depending on the side he's on. :-)

Btw, where is the dog! I expected to see the star!

cheers,
Ian

[aarggh]

stoopid double post!

[hoss2006]

That's brilliant Hoss! As long as it even tenuously involves machines or machining it's never off topic!

With that camera all you need to do now is incorporate some facial recognition so it will recognise only the dog and open/close it depending on the side he's on. :-)

Btw, where is the dog! I expected to see the star!

cheers,
Ian

Thanks, here's the guy.
Neighbors couldn't take him when they moved so I adopted him rather than him going to the pound.
I had him to the vet and he had to get 4 bad teeth removed cause of his age.
She figures he's got a couple years left in him so we'll keep each other company.
Hoss

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMn4cKVELsk]Buddy - YouTube[/ame]

[Titaniumboy]

Out to the garage to finish the tramming aids, and then later to review the four Hoss tramming videos. I've had a .0005 DTI and 1" dial indicator for ages. Do I need anything else for the tramming exercises?

I've finished up three of the tramming aids, but I haven't installed them yet. I made one extra in case I messed up the two I wanted. I made a mistake and only bought 1/2" long 1/4-28 setscrews, so I'll need to back and get longer ones so there is enough room for a jam nut. Will a 1/2" deep 1/4-20 hole be sufficient for mounting the tramming aid?

Hoss, I like your closer tolerances for the socket head cap screws a lot better than the tolerances from Machinery's Handbook. The fit of the SHCS using your numbers ends up looking incredibly professional.

I finally watched your five tramming videos this morning. I see that the first three videos show you using a 3/4" drill rod, whereas the last two videos show you using a precision machinist square. I don't have any drill rod at all yet, but I do have a 6" machinist square. My machinist square isn't made of one piece like yours, but is instead made of two pieces. I bought this square used, so I have no idea how accurate it is, or even how to test it. Would buying some 3/4" drill rod from Enco be the way to go?

Along with my .0005 DTI, I also have an Indicol clone from Little Machine Shop that I was using to tram the Bridgeports at school. I like the various tramming tools shown in your videos a lot better...

It appears from your videos that - even with all of the head removal and reinstalling - your head was square to the column straight from the factory with no shimming or adjustments necessary?

Also, I notice that all of your tramming videos were done with the vise not installed on the table. You don't find that the weight of the installed vise changes any of the tram numbers?

By the way, nice job on the patio door opener.

Titaniumboy

[hoss2006]

sorry i'll have to get back to you later.

love you Pop!

[jalessi]

Daniel,

Are you ok?

Jeff...

[hoss2006]

thanks jeff, just lost my dad but we'll be ok, ill be back.
hoss

[jalessi]

Daniel,

Parents never want their children to feel bad or experience pain.
I stay busy and don't seclude myself. It seems to lessen the anxiety.
Keep your chin up, you have many friends here.

Jeff...

[FannBlade]

Hang in there Hoss,I lost my Dad July 26th.
It will be tough going as you know.

My family and myself will send a special prayer.