[NinerSevenTango]

....big hat, no cattle.

LMAO

[fizzissist]

Ever see The Wizard of Oz?
.....I'm reminded of a certain humbug....

In our case, the very nature of this internet, created and existing for the love of free enterprise, prevents us from ....
.....seeing behind the curtain. We'll never see the Mighty Oz!

[thkoutsidthebox]

A few more good books:

Wealth of Nations, by Adam Smith

Economics In One Easy Lesson, by Henry Hazlitt

--97T--

Here's a good book: The Shock Doctrine, by Niomi Klein

.....Will anyone buy the books mentioned in this thread?...I think not!

[handlewanker]

Thanks THK......the box, it's interesting to know what reading material is out there, especially if you're not connected to a book club or read up on book reviews.

I just bought, yes BOUGHT, the book called The Dictionary Of Bulsh!t by Nick Ware.

Now before all the knowalls make weird comment on it, the point is when someone quotes an interesting passage from a book then it opens a window of opportunity to broaden your horizen, so yes I'll gen up on the Shock whatever by Niomi, by surfing the net for reviews etc.

A couple of posts back someone mentioned the boring scenario of getting up in a state owned house, getting on a state owned bus to go to a state owned workplace to work on state owned projects etc etc, in other words if it aint owner orientated it aint any good, period!

In the late 50's I started work in a private owned town in the Namib desert, lived in a company owned house, sat on company owned furniture (complete), rode on company owned transport, bought food in company owned shops, worked in a company owned work place, my first child was born in the company owned hospital, sent kids to a company run and owned school, went to company owned and funded entertainment centres, used a free company owned 'phone, local and long distance, cooked my food on a company owned gas stove with free supplied company owned LPG bottled gas supplies, lit my company owned house with free company generated electricity, obtained all my garden supplies from the company owned garden centre, bought all my fresh hydroponic grown vegies from the company owned vegie market obtained from the company owned farm, etc etc etc.

With this degree of company ownership you might think I was busting a gut to get out of there, oh and I forgot to mention, the town of 2000 people was enclosed in a barbed wire fence about 2 miles out of town, but as this was just a boundary marker and was used to restrict the movement of wild antelope and Ostriches from making a nuisence in town, it was never an issue to actually "go under the wire" or try to tunnel out to "freedom" etc.
ROTFLMAO.

BTW, there is a company owned and managed cemetry where some people who were born on the company property and died there are buried, having been administered religious rites by a company employed priest in a company owned church, and yes the good old standby Catholic Church is well represented etc.

In this scenario there were no private enterprises allowed, which was understandable considering all your working hours were for the company use and wages were paid at double the going rate of the current work practices to encourage people to work and stay in the isolated environment, with subsidize travel costs on yearly family holidays.

This is about as close as you can get to living under Communism, but with one difference, we weren't at the mercy of a misguided peasant mentality with the mindset of downtrodden and low mental capacity workers, who couldn't find their way out of a paper bag without setting it allight.

Much to the contrary, anyone who applied to the company for a position had to be of the very highest moral and mental calibre, which weeded out the undesirables.

The slightest hint of any criminal history or connection, even back to the previous third generation, automatically cancelled out an application. I kid thee not.

When I hear some of the "experts" talk on Socialism and the effects of Communism I come to realise that they are just talking out of the back of their pseudo academic rectums, having just read about it somewhere and never even realising what it was all about.

This has little to do with global warming/cooling etc, but with one of the driest and most inhospitable deserts on the planet, living on the Skeleton Coast was a continual adaptation of water conservation and water supply.

Without the water supply from the Orange River bore holes, the town would cease to exist, due to the fact that rain is practically non existent.

I lived there for 10 years, and now you can understand why UK, when I went back there with my family, with it's almost crap weather continuum, was a place I just had to escape from, so that is why I chose OZ, far from being a refugee as some might think.

Down in OZ, (not the Wizard of OZ land) but the real thing, we are experiencing a change in the weather patterns and have been on water restrictions for the last couple of years, so much so that there are definite plans afoot to install a pipeline from a river system farther away to bring water to Victoria.

BTW Fizzwizz, seeing is believing, in the meantime yo'all 'll have to make do with the word, and yo'all can tell Mariss the "pen is mightier than the sword", peace, not rest in pieces, even if you are a bit of a religious nutter.
Ian.

[fizzissist]

I'm a religious nutter?????????

Not only a personal insult, but a very personal insult, and one that forces me to ask just exactly where did that come from???????????????????????????

Additionally, I'm afraid I don't recall ever mentioning my religion here....did I somewhere long ago mention my fascination with the one true god...the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

....please respond in 37 paragraphs or more.

[warrenb]

Thanks THK......the box, it's interesting to know what reading material is out there, especially if you're not connected to a book club or read up on book reviews.

I just bought, yes BOUGHT, the book called The Dictionary Of Bulsh!t by Nick Ware.

Now before all the knowalls make weird comment on it, the point is when someone quotes an interesting passage from a book then it opens a window of opportunity to broaden your horizen, so yes I'll gen up on the Shock whatever by Niomi, by surfing the net for reviews etc.

A couple of posts back someone mentioned the boring scenario of getting up in a state owned house, getting on a state owned bus to go to a state owned workplace to work on state owned projects etc etc, in other words if it aint owner orientated it aint any good, period!

In the late 50's I started work in a private owned town in the Namib desert, lived in a company owned house, sat on company owned furniture (complete), rode on company owned transport, bought food in company owned shops, worked in a company owned work place, my first child was born in the company owned hospital, sent kids to a company run and owned school, went to company owned and funded entertainment centres, used a free company owned 'phone, local and long distance, cooked my food on a company owned gas stove with free supplied company owned LPG bottled gas supplies, lit my company owned house with free company generated electricity, obtained all my garden supplies from the company owned garden centre, bought all my fresh hydroponic grown vegies from the company owned vegie market obtained from the company owned farm, etc etc etc.

With this degree of company ownership you might think I was busting a gut to get out of there, oh and I forgot to mention, the town of 2000 people was enclosed in a barbed wire fence about 2 miles out of town, but as this was just a boundary marker and was used to restrict the movement of wild antelope and Ostriches from making a nuisence in town, it was never an issue to actually "go under the wire" or try to tunnel out to "freedom" etc.
ROTFLMAO.

BTW, there is a company owned and managed cemetry where some people who were born on the company property and died there are buried, having been administered religious rites by a company employed priest in a company owned church, and yes the good old standby Catholic Church is well represented etc.

In this scenario there were no private enterprises allowed, which was understandable considering all your working hours were for the company use and wages were paid at double the going rate of the current work practices to encourage people to work and stay in the isolated environment, with subsidize travel costs on yearly family holidays.

This is about as close as you can get to living under Communism, but with one difference, we weren't at the mercy of a misguided peasant mentality with the mindset of downtrodden and low mental capacity workers, who couldn't find their way out of a paper bag without setting it allight.

Much to the contrary, anyone who applied to the company for a position had to be of the very highest moral and mental calibre, which weeded out the undesirables.

The slightest hint of any criminal history or connection, even back to the previous third generation, automatically cancelled out an application. I kid thee not.

When I hear some of the "experts" talk on Socialism and the effects of Communism I come to realise that they are just talking out of the back of their pseudo academic rectums, having just read about it somewhere and never even realising what it was all about.

This has little to do with global warming/cooling etc, but with one of the driest and most inhospitable deserts on the planet, living on the Skeleton Coast was a continual adaptation of water conservation and water supply.

Without the water supply from the Orange River bore holes, the town would cease to exist, due to the fact that rain is practically non existent.

I lived there for 10 years, and now you can understand why UK, when I went back there with my family, with it's almost crap weather continuum, was a place I just had to escape from, so that is why I chose OZ, far from being a refugee as some might think.

Down in OZ, (not the Wizard of OZ land) but the real thing, we are experiencing a change in the weather patterns and have been on water restrictions for the last couple of years, so much so that there are definite plans afoot to install a pipeline from a river system farther away to bring water to Victoria.

BTW Fizzwizz, seeing is believing, in the meantime yo'all 'll have to make do with the word, and yo'all can tell Mariss the "pen is mightier than the sword", peace, not rest in pieces, even if you are a bit of a religious nutter.
Ian.

Karl is that you???

You forgot something trying to explain to us neanderthals. This company that owned everything including the hydroponic water pumps that grew your nutirious veggies... Was this company that owned everything, in business to make money? Or was this company in existence to provide you with healthy vegetables??? It would seem just terrible that a for profit company would provide company owned benefits to keep company EMPLOYEES happy and content with their jobs. So happy and content that even a marxist can raise a happy healthy child and make a good living.

And back in Oz... Let me know when Auz has EVER been a wetland outside of kuringai or cairns? Remember those idiots that wanted to flood the central planes to bring rain to the sterile ag land??? No? How about the fact that it's been a dessert island for tens of thousands of years!!!!!! White man has been there a hundred years and somehow YOU and the other Goracles KNOW that in such a short time Auz is in a man made drought because of global warming and capitalism. Never mind wall paintings on Ayers Rock [sic] have managed to NOT be eroded over the centuries. Funny thing. In Sydney one year I was driving home through Parammata and literally tornadoes were blowing through downtown. ON CHRISTMAS DAY!!! CHRISTMAS DAY WE HAD A FULL DAY OF RAIN!!! The whole family eating Christmas day with a rainstorm when it should have been 45C degrees outside!!! And imagine, no one was running around screaming GLOBAL WARMING GLOBAL WARMING.

Get a life man. Put down the Chomsky, put down the Marx, and live for yourself. I can't imagine how miserable your world is. Your foolishness is totally obvious when YOU YOURSELF told the CNCzone HOW much a capitalist company provided for YOU and your family. You're really pathetic and don't even realize your very own family was ONLY possible because YOU worked for a FOR PROFIT CAPITALIST COMPANY that OFFERED you a great job with incredible benefits. You admit the "king" provided YOU a life and all you can do is complain about the King. Well, we capitalists are our own king. the only problem we have are wannabe thug king tax collectors LIKE YOU want your cut of the pie because you're too god damned lazy to get it for yourself. And you're jealous of the success we have because YOU ARE INCAPABLE OF TAKING THE RISKS WE TAKE EVERYDAY!!! If someone in the government or who worships at the alter of the government want what we want YOU TAKE IT FROM US because you don't have the cranial capacity to figure out how to make a dollar!!!

Enjoy life waiting for someone else providing for you. Me, I'm not waiting for anyone to provide me with what I want. And thank God people like you are limited to government jobs that I never have to hire because someone like you would destroy my business. Lazy, selfish, and power hungry. A dangerous combination steeped in Marx, Chomsky, Chavez, Alinsky, Castro, Stalin, Mao, and Obama. Luckily, here on the RIGHT side of the pond, your limited to SNL skits.

[dufas]

In the late 50's I started work in a private owned town in the Namib desert, lived in a company owned house, sat on company owned furniture (complete), rode on company owned transport, bought food in company owned shops, worked in a company owned work place, my first child was born in the company owned hospital, sent kids to a company run and owned school, went to company owned and funded entertainment centres, used a free company owned 'phone, local and long distance, cooked my food on a company owned gas stove with free supplied company owned LPG bottled gas supplies, lit my company owned house with free company generated electricity, obtained all my garden supplies from the company owned garden centre, bought all my fresh hydroponic grown vegies from the company owned vegie market obtained from the company owned farm, etc etc etc.

With this degree of company ownership you might think I was busting a gut to get out of there, oh and I forgot to mention, the town of 2000 people was enclosed in a barbed wire fence about 2 miles out of town, but as this was just a boundary marker and was used to restrict the movement of wild antelope and Ostriches from making a nuisence in town, it was never an issue to actually "go under the wire" or try to tunnel out to "freedom" etc.
ROTFLMAO.

Ian.

Handlewanker has shown his extreme ignorance once again. He opens his mouth and the crap falls out so quickly, he doesn't even realize it.

Ian, you idiot, if you worked in such a place, those things you describe were perks that the company gave you. They were part of your wages. Now, if that fence was to keep you in and to regulate your movements...it may be close to communism-socialism, but given the time that you were in south Africa, it is more likely to protect you from angry victims of apartheid which you, most likely, enjoyed participating in given your penchant for arrogance and power. You should feel right at home in the old East Germany...

There are places in America, "the cesspit" as you called it that have housing, food, stores, entertainment, etc, etc, to varying degrees provided by an employer also but like all things, you view through a bastardized, warped mind.

You are the perfect communist, working with half truths and an infantile imagination. Someday, you may grow up but I doubt it.

[One of Many]

That is just freak'n sadly hilarious Ian,

Now I can place your perspective for lack of weening from being coddled all your life in an ant farm, taking your place in the caste order for your creature needs. Those above you and those below you in the teet line made life work under a doomed to fail system of capitalism aflicted by the progression refered to as local inflation and constriction of labor value with escalating productivity. Some of the caste status positons eventually become devalued, due to erfficiency through put and cut rate prices against the competition. The short fall of ones compensation is by default, prattled upon the Royalty and population at large to help carry your burden to survive.

This is penial envy gone mad with the little man syndrome still looking to knock someone else down in an effort to build themself back up to their rightful status rung in the caste.

Wow....seriously......WOW! No wonder gifts form the state treasury are so attractive. The powers that be can always print more money, but the company store no longer owns your soul. Surprizing that not even you see this scenario as a goobernment subsidized "green" business expense that just grows more power seeking pissmires, who's job is to give away the farm that the company can no longer afford due to the tax burdens demanded by the systems evolutionary toll.

Maybe there is some hidden guilt in this economic system you groveled to help create and benefited from? So, fixing concentration on the environment and weather far into the future is a simpler endeavor than admitting reponsibility for the economic mess on those with lower social class and deeper resentments.

Your utopia too has fallen a part and it must be someone else's fault. What a rapture to your credibility while you portend the American dream is a sham. I am greatful we learn from "some" of our mistakes as well as those made by others. Just don't expect any compensatory gratitude. There is already a waiting line with their hands out, so pick a number!

LMAOROF!

DC

[Rome69]

Er... Meanwhile, several countries are arguing over rights to oil under the now thawing ice cap. I'm not sure, but that could turn out to be comically ironic. Anyhow, whatever the cause, global warming isn't an issue for the planet only it's inhabitants & historically they come & go, we probably won't be any different. Best bet is probably to enjoy what you've got while you've got it.

[handlewanker]

Yes Warrenb, that company is in business to make money, lots of it, diamonds make lots of lovely money, and so do the people that are allowed to work there.

In case you also can't read, the barbed wire fence was to keep the WILD LIFE, as in animals, out of town, you know man, four legged kind with bleeding great 'orns on their 'eads. They're also protected wild life.

If you don't believe me, look up Gemsbok and you'll see what I mean.

Fizzwizz, polish the dribble off yo' specs mon, and read the last two lines of my post 3964, but perhaps you're frothing at the gills and can't quite make the keyboard work as fast as you want it to, too bad old age hasn't been kind to you.

I won't reply to the rest of the invective, some pass off as a post.

THK.....thebox, thanks again for the ref to Shock Doctrine by Naomi klein, watched the video, now I'm going to get the book.

I always thought Milton Friedman was an arrrsehole, now the world admits it to be so.

BTW all you Humanoids, I am quite happy being a fervent follower of Capitalism, and I fervently believe that what I make is partly mine to keep, partly that is because the relative government has a hand in my pocket by way of taxes etc.

BTW again, the company I worked for was in South West Africa, now Namibia, and is the Anglo American Corporation.

Is that a Marxist Socialistic Communistic set up, or are the Reds really under your corporate beds back home in good ole' US of A?

So you see, misinterpreting my motives just shows your senile mentality.
It is well documented that the Yanks go from infancy to senility without ever passing maturity, but then yo'all know that, and all in a space of only 200 years of your history, that's progress for you.

Ol' president Bush gonna sort you lot out man, he aint gonna hang around and solve your problems, no sirree, gonna let someone else do that, and while you vote for another born leader wannabe, remember the 500 billion dollar debt he's gonna have to get back from you'all.

Meanwhile back in OZ the Spring is coming which means down South in Melbourne town the weather will be improving from the cold 6 degree C at night and 16 degree C days to a more mellow 20 to 30 degrees C, which is why I came here.

But that's life.
Ian.

[handlewanker]

Hey Dufa, some perks what? we were rolling in the stuff......LOL, and wages too, LOL.
Ian.

[Otter1]

handlewanker wrote:
"The slightest hint of any criminal history or connection, even back to the previous third generation, automatically cancelled out an application. I kid thee not."


The surest way to detect defects in a man's ideals is by the words from his own mouth. I don't know if this was true or not but anyone who would boast of a policy like this is, how shall I say this, *suspect*.

Not that I am entering into the fray of US vs OZ. I am not proud that we in the US have incarcerated a higher percentage of our population than any other country. If wanker's revered policy were enforced here, very few of us would get hired. Guess a lot of us here are glad we are self employed :>)

[Otter1]

Back on the subject of the Thread title, has anyone here formulated a theory of just what is behind this sudden drastic increase in energy prices?

I have, and it kind of freaks me out that my conclusions make me sound like the conspiricy theory nuts that I abhore. Yes, I know that there are increasing demands (China, India, etc) and oil is a limited resource but none of this can really explain the past 18 months or so. There is a coherent plan behind it and it has to be more than just oil companies maximizing profits.

If this is too broad a topic to handle, did it not seem passing strange that Bush made not just one but TWO personal visits to Saudi Arabia in the past year to ask "would you please pump a bit more oil?" and got the same answer from the Family Saud both times, a simple "no". At least this is the story as published in the media.

Does anyone wonder what the real purpose of these visits was?

[dufas]

Hey Dufa, some perks what? we were rolling in the stuff......LOL, and wages too, LOL.
Ian.

Hey idiot, perks are perks, If you gotte'm,.... use'm. It was you that equated you nice set up to socialism.....

You failed to mention that diamond workers are watched closely, thieves you know and that the fences around every diamond facility is used to control humans and non-humaniods as well. Again, you blather half-truths and crappy imagination...... You were probably watched a little more closely than the others, being a non-humaniod and all. Arrogant thingies are always under scrutiny....

[One of Many]

handlewanker wrote:
"The slightest hint of any criminal history or connection, even back to the previous third generation, automatically cancelled out an application. I kid thee not."


The surest way to detect defects in a man's ideals is by the words from his own mouth. I don't know if this was true or not but anyone who would boast of a policy like this is, how shall I say this, *suspect*.

Not that I am entering into the fray of US vs OZ. I am not proud that we in the US have incarcerated a higher percentage of our population than any other country. If wanker's revered policy were enforced here, very few of us would get hired. Guess a lot of us here are glad we are self employed :>)

It isn't the US vs OZ. Australia and its citizens are great people. It is the opinion of one spiteful nut job in a foreign land throwing characterizing insults across the pond, claiming our whole country, it's founding and principles as dunderhead ideas….. as if his intellect and post failed systems were so far superior. I have yet to see evidence that his arm chair quaterbacking contribution to his fellow man shows him to be beyond reproach. He has all the solutions, but has never solved any of the problems in any land he has ever planted his arse in.

It is the little man that uses invective against those he has no respect for, but ignores direct questions to avoid answering with a response that could prove embarrassing to his ideology in having its own intrinsic problems. I suspect, the only connection this joker has to OZ here is that it start out as a penal colony. I'll leave that distinction there to the imagination.

DC

[dufas]

If this is too broad a topic to handle, did it not seem passing strange that Bush made not just one but TWO personal visits to Saudi Arabia in the past year to ask "would you please pump a bit more oil?" and got the same answer from the Family Saud both times, a simple "no". At least this is the story as published in the media.

Does anyone wonder what the real purpose of these visits was?

Since the media would be the first to jump on the anti-Bush bandwagon and the knowledge that the media IS anti-Bush. The media would be screaming from the mountain tops ad-nauseum with reports that Bush made some deal. Since the media has reported that the Saudis said 'no', the reports would have to be excepted at face value. The same speculation was made in the 70s during the 'gas' shortage then, only with a different president.

I don't think that the Saudis are dumb. If they are getting a high price for their product, they are not going to kill the goose that's laying the golden egg any more than a than one of your local energy suppliers is going to lower the price of their product because consumers are having trouble affording it. And besides, only around 10 percent of our oil comes from the near east, most of our oil comes from Canada, Mexico, and South America..........

Plus, if Bush were really just after oil, how come there are no American companies in Iraq pumping oil to the US, only foreign companies 'other' than the US are benefiting from the Iraqi oil........

Like Handlwankers says, "Would you take a cut in wages because your employer can't afford to keep you any longer".. ???

[Otter1]

Since the media would be the first to jump on the anti-Bush bandwagon and the knowledge that the media IS anti-Bush. The media would be screaming from the mountain tops ad-nauseum with reports that Bush made some deal. Since the media has reported that the Saudis said 'no', the reports would have to be excepted at face value. The same speculation was made in the 70s during the 'gas' shortage then, only with a different president.

I don't think that the Saudis are dumb. If they are getting a high price for their product, they are not going to kill the goose that's laying the golden egg any more than a than one of your local energy suppliers is going to lower the price of their product because consumers are having trouble affording it. And besides, only around 10 percent of our oil comes from the near east, most of our oil comes from Canada, Mexico, and South America..........

Plus, if Bush were really just after oil, how come there are no American companies in Iraq pumping oil to the US, only foreign companies 'other' than the US are benefiting from the Iraqi oil........

Like Handlwankers says, "Would you take a cut in wages because your employer can't afford to keep you any longer".. ???

\


I agree that the media is largely anti Bush, so the question is, why would Bush set himself up to look like some bumbling beggar groveling before the Saudis? I think it's obvious that he knew the answer long before he made the trip. Further more, I think he must have ASKED for that answer before he made the trip. But he did need to appear to be trying to help the situation (for Joe sixpack who read the media reports at face value).

To cut to the chase, after Bush bungled the war in Iraq, he decided to do something that truely needed to be done but has been politically impossible up until now (when he isn't up for election again).

We have always had the technical ability to find alternatives to oil energy but lacked the motivation. Even the mostly bogus "War on Terror" failed to motivate us. But $4.00 / gal gas, NOW you've got our attention! Suddenly, we are no longer scared to death of nuclear power, and hell YES drill off the coast and in ANWR for oil. And to hell with animal rights advocates who object to birds being whacked by wind power turbines. Same for the folks who thought they were too unsightly to be placed off the coast of New England. And now is the time for higher CAFE standards. In fact, we don't have to legislate them, the car companies (and car drivers) are reacting faster than Congress ever could. And all this dovetails nicely with 'doing something about climate change' too. It's simply brilliant!

Getting all this to happen in 2 short years required some bold moves that I won't pretend to know all about but it didn't happen because we suddenly ran short of oil.

The average American would probably want his head on a platter if this theory is right but If Bush is the one who did it, my hat's off to him.

[dufas]

I agree that the media is largely anti Bush, so the question is, why would Bush set himself up to look like some bumbling beggar groveling before the Saudis? I think it's obvious that he knew the answer long before he made the trip. Further more, I think he must have ASKED for that answer before he made the trip. But he did need to appear to be trying to help the situation (for Joe sixpack who read the media reports at face value).

To cut to the chase, after Bush bungled the war in Iraq, he decided to do something that truely needed to be done but has been politically impossible up until now (when he isn't up for election again).

We have always had the technical ability to find alternatives to oil energy but lacked the motivation. Even the mostly bogus "War on Terror" failed to motivate us. But $4.00 / gal gas, NOW you've got our attention! Suddenly, we are no longer scared to death of nuclear power, and hell YES drill off the coast and in ANWR for oil. And to hell with animal rights advocates who object to birds being whacked by wind power turbines. Same for the folks who thought they were too unsightly to be placed off the coast of New England. And now is the time for higher CAFE standards. In fact, we don't have to legislate them, the car companies (and car drivers) are reacting faster than Congress ever could. And all this dovetails nicely with 'doing something about climate change' too. It's simply brilliant!

Getting all this to happen in 2 short years required some bold moves that I won't pretend to know all about but it didn't happen because we suddenly ran short of oil.

The average American would probably want his head on a platter if this theory is right but If Bush is the one who did it, my hat's off to him.

There was only the very vocal groups and pandering politicians that didn't want drilling, animal rights, etc, etc... and when these people figured out that high fuel prices not only effected them when we, 'joe sixpacks' didn't spend our money on their products or companies where they worked....minds change very fast. We might go to one or two blockbuster movies but the other films are hurting to be profitable.... Starbucks is not only closing down many of their shops, they are cutting prices in the ones that stay open. My, 'liberal almost to the point of being socialist' neighbor is finally coming around since his job has started laying off people. He is scared... I asked him what is he scared of, he wanted a $5.00 fuel tax a few years ago and now he whimps out at $4.00 fuel. When we great unwashed cannot spend money, they, the elite, don't make money..Most of these people can't think past their nose.

What is really scary is a California constitutional amendment that is being pushed as I write this, in fact, it is being discussed on the radio right now. Handlewanker would be proud. Several politicians want to raise taxes high, high, high, but the scary part is that if anyone leaves the state, half of everything that a person is worth will be taxed. The state will also own large amounts of stock in public companies in order to control what each company does. Many times, as California goes, so does the rest of the nation, especially when it comes to money. As I have mentioned before, the US is going to look like old Russia and Russia is going to look like the old US

[dufas]

Back in the 70s during the oil crisis, small, fuel officiant vehicles were being built here, being brought in from overseas, and just about every small auto craft shop was building one. I was in the auto coach building business at that time and was part of the efficient vehicle movement then.

After fuel prices leveled off and seemed stable. All sorts of groups and individuals came out of the woodwork and complained about these little cars. Politicians joined the fray with the added complaint that the state wasn't getting as much revenue as before because not only did the little cars cost less, they used less fuel. The politicians enacted laws from outright banning certain vehicles to putting restrictions on their use to requiring features that negated the purpose of the vehicle. Small shops, such as mine, were put out of business by direct edict.

Much of what is going on now can be laid directly at the feet of our idiot politicians and those that supported them....

[handlewanker]

Dufa, while I applaud your insight and revelations as to the home scene you are doomed to live in, did it ever, I mean EVER, as in your wildest dreams ever, occur to yo'all that when you make a rod for your own back, how can you complain when you're beaten by it?

Which broadly speaking means, (I hope I'm not going too fast for you), you created the politicians, and if you haven't the gumption to examine their credentials before you give them carte blanche to root you, how can you now complain if they're sticking the sharp end of their sticks right up where it hurts, and you lot are bending over to assist them.

Isn't it about time you lot grew up and left home, to forge new links and go forward?

Interpreted for those that are thick between the ears, change the system before the system changes you forever.

It is a fact that a passiive tame society, groomed and cultivated by a cunning handler, can be sheared and led out to slaughter on a regular basis, without fundamentally affecting the system as a whole, purely by offering salvation in the form of relief from the very problems the handlers creats for them.

This is like hitting someone over the head in the dark and then giving them an Aspirin to help with the headache.

Yo'all try to solve your problems offshore, but the solutions are right in your own back yard, that is unless you're too blind to recognise a problem.

A shrink will tell you before you can fix a problem you have to admit to having one, and the politicians (shrinks in disguise) make sure you don't recognise the problems, well not during their term in office, and that's for sure.

Who said the global warming aint happening? Now I suppose the Artic ice is just evaporating, wake up, it's happening under your very noses.

BTW, bush is going out of office, so why would he want to go to the Middle East unless he had personal vested interests.

Now that's what I call putting Dracular in charge of the blood bank, carte Blanche to have a ball what? The no 1 man going for broke.

Like the previous post stated, there aren't many that would qualify for a job back where I came from.

Australia was a penal colony and went on to become a nation, but the USA just declined from becoming a nation to being a penal colony, true there are many skeletons in your closet, but "dem bones" gonna come back to haunt you boy.

If you think I'm being too damming with invective, know this then, one of your "SUPER HEROES" ole' Blue eyes Frank Sinatra, was so closely connected with the mob, that when the Kennedys scrabbled up the sh!t pile yo'all call politics, It was Franky boy and his connections that made it possible for big Daddy Kennedy to get his sons into the hot seat, I kid thee not, it's all well documented.

The no 1 man, the one person voted by you the taxpayer, (you wish), the best you've got, the born leader, the head of the greatest nation on Earth, (by some accounts not ratified), so corrupt he almost led the world to the brink of Nuclear war by using misinterpreted foreign intelligence.

To be seen as a creditable entity, yo'all better cover your clay feet up, cos the Chinese gonna sort you out if they spot them.

In the coming climate difficulties, it is going to take leaders that put the people they represent first, without the shades of vested interest clouding the scene.

Whisper now in my shell like ear if you would, who amongst you is capable of leading you to prosperity in the next six years?

This is your life, even if you are led by idiots, make your vote count, it's the only bit of freedom you were born with, and the only thing the politicians fear the most.

Come election day the politicians will be quoting the Duke of Wellington after the Battle of Waterloo, "They came on in the same old way, and we stopped them in the same old way", isn't that pathetic, your vote already precounted?
Ian.