[camsoft]

Karl,

Yes, we do. We can control multiple axes robotic and non-CNC applications as well. From paint spraying, to dispensing, to sand blasting, pick and place ect.. In some cases the path can be "taught" or shown were to move, plus taught where to trigger actions and have this be recorded to a file for play back later without the need for a G code programs or CAD files.

Robotic applications have become more popular for us over the last few years.


Tech Support
CamSoft Corp.
[email protected]
PH 951-674-8100
Fax 951-674-3110
www.cnccontrols.com

[keithorr]

Karl,

Robotic applications have become more popular for us over the last few years.

If you go to the camsoft website you can find a video of my camsoft retrofit on a kawasaki robot.

Please watch the video and notice how SLOWLY the machine moves.

I no longer use camsoft. I wrote my own Windows application in Visual Studio using Galil libraries.

After ditching what I considered to be bloatware with an unacceptable built in latency, the machine went from processing 5 blocks per second (200ms per block) to over 300 blocks per second via ethernet running 7 axis with 36 I/O. The machine went from 5 lines of G code per second with jerky motion to 300 lines of code per second with smooth and accurate control.

Galil rocks.

[Al_The_Man]

I wrote my own Windows application in Visual Studio using Galil libraries.

Is there a decent suggested link to get more information on Visual Studio as it applies to Galil?
Al.

[Karl_T]

... I wrote my own Windows application in Visual Studio using Galil libraries.

You must be a genious

Can you explain to an ordinary mortal how to make a simple move along one axis with a robot? On a CNC you just turn one servo on at a certain speed. On a robot, you need at least three servos moving in unison with the speeds of each servo changing constantly.

That's the simple case, now move that part in 3D space while defining the part orientation. The math is way above my pay grade.

Karl

[Al_The_Man]

On a CNC you just turn one servo on at a certain speed. On a robot, you need at least three servos moving in unison with the speeds of each servo changing constantly.

Any CNC machine should be able to coordinate more than one axis, Galil have interpolation commands, e.g. Circle/arc and Vector multi-axis linear coordination moves.
Al.

[Drassk]

I think he's referring to the inverse kinematics required for chained axes, rather than the ability to move more than one motor at a time. If you're retrofitting a robot, the worst part by far is deriving the inverse kinematics. Of course, if you're just using taught positions then you can skip that step.

(If the term is new to anyone, inverse kinematics are the set of equations that tell the robot where to move its joints to put the end effector in a certain X,Y,Z position with a specific orientation (yaw, pitch, roll)

[keithorr]

On a CNC you just turn one servo on at a certain speed. On a robot, you need at least three servos moving in unison with the speeds of each servo changing constantly. Karl

Not so. A cnc mill runs multiple axis simultaneously, right?

I was not expecting cam soft to do the kinematics. The 7 axis G code is cam'd using an offline program. The app I made parses the cam code and turns it into galil native commands (pre processed) and then streams the file into the card buffer. All I wanted camsoft to do was read a file. camsoft lite with an Galil Ethernet card could only process 5 lines of code per second. The robot would overrun the code processing and be starved for commands, so ended up jerking along while the camsoft processed.

The Galil Ethernet card can handle up to 500 lines per second (2ms each) but with LAN traffic and I/O, 300 is a manageable amount of code. This gives great resolution and response.

Visual Studio Express is a free download from Microsoft. http://www.microsoft.com/exPress/
I used the visual basic version and learned by following the tutorials.
I built the application from scratch using the galil dmc net api (free), but I could have bought the Galil activex toolkit (I think the new version is Galil Tools?) which would have included ready made modules for axis readout I/O update etc.

The time to learn Visual Studio was a factor, but after learning how to write the application, I was able to quickly add all the features I wanted.
The Galil forum was very helpful. I don't think it was any harder to learn the galil coding than it was to learn how to create camsoft language for routines.

[Leblondmakino]

Keep the Fanuc controls, they just work...the Fanuc 16 is an excellent control which will do almost anything including 5 axis and high speed cutting.
No disrespect to Camsoft as I'm sure it's an excellent system but Fanuc know a thing or two about cnc. Great quality components and bullet proof cnc software..why give yourself a headache trying to improve on an already excellent control?

Just my opinion!

[PhoenixMetal]

I have to echo keithorr's comment on P2 of this thread. While Camsoft is capable of working for advanced applications such as robotics, it is absolutely not the right tool for the job. I purchased Camsoft 2 or 3 years ago with the intent of retrofitting the controls for a CNC press brake backgauge. That was a simple single axis application. The camsoft salesperson assured me that their system was fully capable of handling my needs (out of the box). It turns out that what they meant was that it was capable of handling my needs if I wanted to learn to write a whole bunch of code, or if I wanted to hire Camsoft to do the custom programming for me. I ended up never using it so it was a complete waste of money.

If you plan to retrofit the controls for any machine tool yourself (perhaps other than for a simple CNC mill, for which this has been done many times before), then you WILL need to learn to program in some motion control language. If you are going to put the time and effort into doing so, you would be much better served learning a language such as Galil's. In fact, that's exactly what you would end up doing anyhow once you realize that Camsoft is basically a sort of limited graphical interface to pass Galil commands to a Galil card.

Based on what the graphical interface looks like for Camsoft, I am guessing that it may be well suited for CNC mill type applications. Maybe its even a great piece of software for that purpose. But if you buy it thinking that you can easily use it for a much more sophisticated application, you will be sorely disappointed.

That's just my opinion...

[Al_The_Man]

I purchased Camsoft 2 or 3 years ago with the intent of retrofitting the controls for a CNC press brake backgauge. That was a simple single axis application.

.

I would have to agree that it is a bit of overkill for a backgauge!
I have been doing one and two axis back gauges for shears and presses for some years using the DMC-1000 legacy and Opint s/w, the only code you need to learn is the Galil native commands, the screens can be made up in minutes after a very short learning curve.
You don't need G-M code for this kind of application, or an expensive card.
Al.

[camsoft]

There's something to be said about making your own control interface and sometimes it is the way to go in some cases for some people. If you are familiar with VB or C++, Galil language and or PLC ladder logic than building a simple control interface application such as a press brake should be considered.

(1) Regarding the amount of effort. If you do have to learn VB or C++, Ladder Logic or the Galil language then you're in for quite a bit longer learning curve and truly the learning curve here is much greater than CamSoft plus more than a bunch of code would have to be written.

(2) Regarding cost we offer a low cost NON-CNC Graphical Operator Interface for these types of machines and general factory automation projects that will cost less than what Galil charges for their VB or C++ development software and servo tuning program.

(3) It's true that software that uses G & M codes for these applications would not be a good choice. That's not what we think we're dealing with here.

(4) We also provide specific free tech support for these applications and machine types plus on-site installation or service to help you finish if requested.

(5) Regarding what it takes to set up a machine. Every system out there has a varying degree of setup work to do. You're not going to get around this with any do-it-yourself system. The more equipment you replace with new, such as motors , amp drives, operator pendants ect and the more you have our technical people do or one of our installers do for you the less work it is for you. The point here is that we will offer it and support as much or as little as you would like, if you want it.

All machines and people are different and envision different things for their machine. Again we will do as much or as little of the set up as you would like as a service. We do charge for this service and believe it's the best bargain to be had. Every system has it's own amount of effort. Each company is offered application assistance. You may choose to accept it or not. We will sale the system with done. For the do-it-yourself person we will provide a cleaned up generic set of files that worked on a similar machine. We will provide a generic interface and pre-written logic that goes with it. However, there is always still work to do. We get as close as possible without getting into customize work. Although we are here if you need us and will still offer the application assistance at anytime later. All systems have choices. Some more than others. We just happen to have more choices because the product is more evolved than most. People should know there are many fill-in-the-blank values and parameters, many choices on functions and features to enable or not, a varied group of routine choices to plug in or remove. Motors/drives to set up, IO logic to write ect... The amount of effort is in direct portion to how much equipment needs to be retrofited, what documentation exist on this existing hardware , how much help you want from an installer or could do yourself and how good you are too.

The bottom line is that some people have the skills and time to develop a system from scratch, but for most of us CamSoft is still the best choice by far for power , price and ease of use.

Tech Support
CamSoft Corp.
[email protected]
PH 951-674-8100
Fax 951-674-3110
www.cnccontrols.com

[Al_The_Man]

Actually with the system I referred to there is no VB or C++ or Ladder Logic, just Galil native commands.
The Operator Interface was virtually drag and drop, based on object orientated principles modelled on SmallTalk.
It was a stand alone program that did not use Windows, I have been using it since its inception in 1990 and it was only dropped by Galil because they did not carry it over to the PCI and other interface cards, where they encouraged Windows and VB/C++ etc.
CNC rolling machine with touch screen, DMC-1030.
Al.

[Karl_T]

Actually with the system I referred to there is no VB or C++ or Ladder Logic, just Galil native commands.
The Operator Interface was virtually drag and drop, based on object orientated principles modelled on SmallTalk...

Al.

My son runs a CNC press brake for prototype work at times. Its quite the machine. Angles are done by having one side of the back guage farther back. For the bend itself, the angle of the bend is determined by stops on either side of the press. he also just inputs the finished distance between bends, the control figures the bend allowances by material and thickness. It also has a bump bend feature to do arcs.

I just missed a chance to buy a CNC press brake with a smoked control. I would have needed all Camsoft has to offer to duplicate the features "The Kid" has come to demand.

[Al_The_Man]

Well in the end it is up to the capability of Galil (if this is the motion card you are using) so the software is just the means to the end, once you have a handle on the card capabilities and language it is very simple to program complicated routines for some of the more advanced machines.
I have proven it is very simple to build a data base that will allow operator input of basic job requirements via the software.
I would say that programming routines in Galil native language can be learned just as fast, and in the machines I have designed with this s/w this all operates invisibly to the operator.
I know by some of the posts in the Galil site help forum you have become adept at some of the more advanced techniques yourself.
I am presently experimenting on a CNC lathe platform, hopefully have result by the end of the summer.
Al.

[Karl_T]

...
I know by some of the posts in the Galil site help forum you have become adept at some of the more advanced techniques yourself.
I am presently experimenting on a CNC lathe platform, hopefully have result by the end of the summer.
Al.

You might be able to use that "Jog Buttons" on your lathe. If you do, ask me for the latest version. I'm still tweaking in minor improvments.

I'm an I/O hog. Bet you are too. And I like it all opto isolated. Pretty sure you feel the same. How will you be doing the I/O and PLC type functions on your lathe?

Karl

[Al_The_Man]

The lathe will just be an experiment as it will take some work to get it to go with a form of G code type routines.
PLC type logic presents a bit of a problem with Galil.
In the past for these systems I have used on screen buttons that either run individual commands or load and run short routines, or run another thread, motion etc.
Another method I used was to use the Galil I/O, with expansion if needed and transfer control over to an outboard PLC, this was done as in commercial system where the M function is triggered by a Galil output to PLC and the PLC returns a FIN signal back when done and The Galil program continues.
I have also made up my own line driver cards to convert the TTL to 24vdc output using ULN2003 or similar.
Al.