[Mr.Vain]

New or not, thank you for your post. You have made some good points, and funny as it may seem we both have done similar research in a similar method. I know have quotes from Thermwood ($100k area) MultiCam (60k area) Camtech (60k Area) Gerber Sabre ( 50k area) TechnoCNC ($35k area) Shop Sabre, Shop Bot, and EZ-Router. Shop Bot and EZ-Router look to have a lot in common, though when you talk to the Shop Bot People they share no opinion claiming EZ-Router is new on the scene. EZ-Router uses mach3 cnc win/controller, Shopbot uses their own, and Shop Sabre runs WINcnc, a controller I found on the Camtech.

When I went to the distributor to look at the camtech (my second sighting, the first was at awfs in vegas) I was pretty impressed with the ease of use of the controller. I can only imagine mach3 is easy to use as well, I just never actually seeen it run a router. The Sabre looks more industry standard all around, from the gantry layout down to the controller. I do feel more likely to go with the Shop Sabre for that very reason. It is also the only machine in the class that has an option of tool changers, although I do not need one.

What it is coming down to for me is, what am I really going to use this machine for? (wood working and sign work). How much do I think the machine will be run? (realistically 4 hours a week at best, I don't get out to the shop enough as it is let alone running the machine). So I decided money matters, a position I normally do not take when it comes to my tools.

As far as accuracy, I under stand that more is better, after all I am an American, but we are talking about accuracy and repeatablity that I can not see on my tape measure. Worst case, with most inacurate router on the market my accuracy will improve to a rediculous extent.

In summation, Shop Sabre is my current front runner.

[Svelte]

Sorry that I haven't posted recently. I DID receive my Shop Sabre about three weeks ago. I travelled to their production facility (My second trip there) to witness the startup and testing of my machine.
I was NOT disappointed. I sent them the control computer and they had it loaded and ready to run my machine when I arrived. The machine started up and ran flawlessly. They made a few software adjustments and everything went along smoothly. They had the machine crated and ready for shipment the next afternoon.
These guys REALLY impressed me. They are VERY knowledgeable and are straight-forward with their answers. They deliver as promised.
I WILL post some pictures from their shop in the next couple of days. Unfortunately, my wife is interviewing for a job in Loveland, CO next week so I have decided to leave my machine in the crate until we know something for sure. It makes no sense to uncrate and setup the machine just to tear it down in a month or two to move it across the country.
Jim (the owner of Shop Sabre) told me that he expects me to call him several times during the setup of the machine. He says that is normal and that the tech support is included. He says he rarely gets calls after the first month or so.
When I was there they were finishing up work on 6 other machines. Five of the machines were going to Black and Decker for tool testing and one was being shipped to a company in Great Britain. These guys must be doing something right.
After looking at E-Z Router, Shop Bot, Shop Sabre and several of the Chinese imports, I feel confident that I made the right decision.
The folks at E-Z Router are VERY nice people, but as someone else pointed out, they run out of a small shop. I just got the feeling that some things were being overlooked in the design of their machine. However, if price were my only consideration, I would have purchased a machine from them.
I paid quite a bit more for the Shop Sabre, but feel that it will stand the test of time. For woodworking, the Shop Sabre tolerances will be just fine and I could afford the forth axis and a second Z-axis spindle. If I had purchased a machine from one of the majors, I would have spent $25K to $75K more.
I'll work on getting those pictures up. Sorry for the long post.

[Mr.Vain]

Well I am glad you are a happy with your machine, it only solidifies my decision a bit more. Anxiously waiting the pictures, I honestly do not have the time to go to their facility but I think I better make it.

[Zumba]

I don't own a shop sabre. I did, at one time, own a Shopbot PRT.

For most woodworking tasks, your success will really boil down to everything other than the machine. In order of priority
1.) Software
2.) Work Holddown (vacuum)
3.) Spindle

A slow but rigid, 150IPM machine, with great software, will run circles around a Komo with crappy software.

As for 4th axis capabilities, you can do some basic rotary carving, pretty much stuff you'd do on a Legacy ornamental mill.... however, true 4-axis carving, such as making a cabriole leg with ball and claw foot, is out of the realm of most router users. The software required to draw that kind of stuff costs as much as the router itself.

[Puritan-KY]

Hmmm I did some more digging and I learned some interesting things. I guess if your looking at price you will need to look beyond the sticker price of the base machine. Comparing a shopsabre to an ezrouter both with the basics added and a 4th axis comes to Shopsabre $16500 EZ-router $13700 Still a little difference in price but not much... $2800, I noticed that ezrouter charges nearly double for the 4th axis than what shopsabre does and almost double on shipping and crating.. (shopsabre doesnt charge a crating fee if the machine is purchased with the table and shipped as one piece)

I then compared both companies leasing affiliate.... Shopsabre offers better rates than ezrouter when comparing a monthly payment on the machines listed above payments come to

Shopsabre - $340 month
Ezrouter - $310 month

Each with the $1 buyout

So if leased there is only an $1800 sticker difference between the two.

I guess you would only be saving any real money if you purchased with cash?

Also I compared shopsabre,ezrouter,shopbot togather with all the trimming and each machine was easliy in the 35k range with as little as $1000 separating them. Its funny how the companies that offer a cheaper priced base machine charge nearly twice as much for options to be added on.......They getcha comin and goin!

:P

[Mr.Vain]

interesting. Thanks for the research. What is really something is the quote price is not always the best deal. Every company except EZ-Router offered a further discount of their quote when asked. Techno Inc www.techno-isel.com has come back with a pretty nice offer and may be the one I choose to go with. If they would drop another $1000.00 I would have my router.

[Svelte]

You are exactly on the money. My Shop Sabre ended up costing about $24,000 with shipping and all of the extras. A 5-tool auto changer would have added another $11,000. I opted for a second spindle instead. That only cost about another $1,000.
Since Shop Sabre offers a 5 foot wide machine, they only use the 5 foot gantry. That means that with my two spindles set only 9 inches apart (the closest they could be set), I can reach both sides of my 4 foot table with both spindles. That will allow me to chuck up two tools and let the machine run without my intervention for a while. I can also spread the spindles later if I want to do side-by-side work two at a time.
I ordered my 4th axis when I went to their shop for my startup and they were out of stock. They shipped the unit two weeks later and the shipping from Minneapolis to Phoenix was only $30.00, packaging included.

One thing that I forgot to mention before was that all of the other machines that I looked at, with the exception of the Chinese machines, used extruded aluminum on their gantrys. Shop Sabre is 100% steel. I paid extra to get another 2 inches of Z-Axis movement on both spindles. That gives me a total Z-Axis of 10 inches. They had built a custom machine for one of the "foam" guys with a 12 inch Z-Axis, but would not build one for me because they had not had time to build one and run it to make sure that there would not be too much sway in the gantry on harder materials. It just goes to show that they really check their designs before they sell you something.

By the way....The one downside to the screw instead of the rack and pinion is that there is a beam that runs under the table. If you want to place a long piece through a hole in the table, you are very limited with the screw setup because of this. I still prefer it, though.

I plan to use the 4th axis unit to machine gun stocks. I have had a lot of requests for this. I have two gun dealers that are badgering me to get going. Jim (at Shop Sabre) says that he has produced this kind of work with great success. He also says that custom bow parts are quite profitable.

[Zumba]

Svelte, which CAD/CAM package are you using to do the 4th axis toolpathing?

[Mr.Vain]

Ordered my Techno-Isel 4'x8' Router. Should be here in 3-4 weeks. will keep you all posted.

[Gerald_D]

I bought a PRT ShopBot in 2000 and realised over the years that I could just as well build a second machine myself, which has since been done. I am simply curious to know from the guys in this thread what are the major factors that made you decide against the ShopBot in favour of a couple of other brands?

[Mr.Vain]

Sorry I let the thread die.... I chose the Techno becuase of product line and, well they cam down to my price point. I have had it now for half a year I guess and it has been great. Not to mention the support. I have called Techno on things that really had little to do with their product and more to do with a project I was working on and they took on the task of helping me through details and even offered suggestions on future work to streamline the production.

Great guys and great products..... Unlike the Shop Sabre they have a full comercial line of routers.

[Gregg/Atl.Sign]

Hello i'm going to put my two cents worth in here
My EZ-Router will be here in the next few days it's on the truck on the way here
i got a 5'x10',10hp vacum bed,5hp spindle
20k delivered

I will let you know how it works soon. The Guys at EZ-Router are great so far
helpful and ez to deal with

Gregg

[bill flesher]

Hope you like the router Iam looking at the 4*8 for doing cabinet parts.
What are you useing the router for? And if you dont mind let us know how well you like it after you are set up and running.
Thank Bill

[bearracecars]

hi
bought the 5x10 router/plasma kit. built a water table for the palsma and a removeable frame for routing. its been running for a couple of weeks now and it has been great. love the rapids. took about 2 hrs to learn to run it with
no previous cnc exp. was hooking up the sensor card and could figure it out, called john walked me right through it. he said that the hypertherm plasma unit's current transformer sometimes causes a miss fire with the torch and shipped me a upgraded one at no cost so that i wouldn't have to deal with the misfire in a middle of a job
bear

[Gregg/Atl.Sign]

Well it's here up and running
It's ez to set up had a little burp with the software but John at EZ-router had ne going in a few mins over the phone. so far it's awsome been running a few tests with it on diff. types of metal and Plex. so far works great.

Gregg

[kenrik]

hi
bought the 5x10 router/plasma kit. built a water table for the palsma and a removeable frame for routing. its been running for a couple of weeks now and it has been great. love the rapids. took about 2 hrs to learn to run it with
no previous cnc exp. was hooking up the sensor card and could figure it out, called john walked me right through it. he said that the hypertherm plasma unit's current transformer sometimes causes a miss fire with the torch and shipped me a upgraded one at no cost so that i wouldn't have to deal with the misfire in a middle of a job
bear

Could you post a few pictures of your table showing the removable frame?. I'm planning to purchase the same machine and seeing real pictures of the setup would help my decision process. Thanks in advance.

[bearracecars]

not a problem if i get a break tomorrow i will take some. its real easy. the water table was the hard part. i will go into some detail of what i would do different if i were to build it all over again.
bear

[Joe Crumley]

Hello Fellows,

I've been through the same mental process as you fellows and settled on the Ez. I had a Shopbot for about 5 years and the maintenance and poor cuts finally did me in. I made the trip to Ez, looked over their units, and was impressed. They make a solid dependable CNC. Dollar for dollar they may be the best buy on the market.

I bought the 5'X10' with a Colombo spindle. Very very smooth and quiet. It will cut 3D files at 600ipm with ease

The beld drive units are common in the industry, and provide smoother cutting along with speed. Replacement is rare. Their controll software is Mach 3. One of the best.

All this said, I'm sure ShopSabre is a good unit also. I've heard nothing but good things about them. Shopbot isn't in this league. Just read their forum and see. They can't keep em square and maintenance is a big part of the deal.

J.
www.normansignco.com

[iraklitos]

Dear Friend!
i wanted to ask you if you finally have the ez-router machine?
and if yes how is it?
i plan to buy a 4*8 table for plasma cuting(stainless steeel) and router work (plastic and wood).
thanks for your time

[iraklitos]

hy there!
i plan to buy a ez-router 4*8 table for plasma cutting (metal cutting) and normal router work -woOd AND PLASTIC....
WAHTS YOUR EXPIRIENCE.......WHIT IT?
you recomend them ?
thanks for your time