[MIKINI MECH]

Great, if you have the time, we'd love the input.

Manufacturer and part number should be all we'll need.

Mikini Mechatronics, LLC

I just did a search on Ebay for proximity switches. Then narrowed my search to bring up the lowest cost items first. You'll find a slew of switches in various configs. Mind you, theese are from China, but, I feel the Onron's are made there too. It's been a while since I made the transsition, but i'm pretty sure I used an NPN switch.

If I have some time I'll pull one out and double check.

[jid2]

I had a long post, but I'm going to shorten it.

I'm looking for a CNC machine of this size and capability to use at work, which is a world class product development and design firm. This machine is very well put together on paper and has excellent details. Great work on that.

But, you appear to have a quality control issue with your electronics, the ESD bag comment was insightful by one user, everyone uses them, they are pink, you put electronics in them - period. If you are not doing that, what else are you missing.

Your posture on this forum is defensive, and paranoid. I'm sure you have only good intentions, but this is how you are being perceived. These places are valuable ways to help promote and let the user base provide free support for each other. But they need a foundation of technical information and cooperation. I agree that you are talking - but adding no value to this section. Value is what people are interested in buying into.

Please don't get even more defensive. Simply answer peoples questions and share details about the machines that will help users keep them running and building cool stuff. The reference to the Tormach section is a very good one.

Best of luck in the new year, the machine does look very nice.

[MIKINI MECH]

Great, happy to help. We're here to provide just what you request in service in regards to your truck, and will be more helpful than most "dealerships" would be with information, within the limitations of our liability policy.

If you contact us with a service request, we'll gladly help you troubleshoot your standard spindle servo drive, and if needed perform a bench test and load verification. We don't require our customers to do so other than very simplistic tests (operational tests and notation of load at idle for example). Analysis of a servo drive is a fundamentally complex task, especially a high speed, high data rate, brushless one. Working around the operating DC bus also requires great caution.

Note that there is no charge for drive service in warranty, and we've done so for owners of second hand machines and out of warranty machines at no charge as well as a customer service.

A point of information :

It's highly likely that you're witnessing low power at low speed vs low torque at low speed. Totally different issue. It's clear some users expect ~ 3 HP at low RPM from attempted applications. This is inconsistent with documentation in every user's guide of torque limits.

Low speed, high torque (relative to it's torque at maximum speed) is not what any modern machining center drive does (This is more like a drill/tap center with a transmission and specific machine configuration). If you somehow managed to get this by modifying one of our machines, which we specifically prohibit, you'll rip the machine apart in a short period of time. Machine structures, bearings, and systems are sized to thrusts and torques, not constant power.

In layman's terms - High precision, high speed, high resolution, servo drive machining centers are not drilling centers or presses - and have very substantial drive and structure/component differences. (you'd also rip apart a 4000 lb, $60,000 machine, if modified in a similar manner for reference). Something like trying to use a 400 HP ford raptor F150 to do what a 400 HP peterbuilt is intended to do to get back to your truck note.

That said - on to the troubleshooting request for information. Note that this information is specifically intended only for use in troubleshooting :

An important safety note before continuing. DC is far more dangerous than AC. If you make a mistake working around the DC high voltage bus, it likely will be lethal. No second chances here like ~200VAC.

We'll reiterate in industrial compliant terms DANGER: DC high voltage is lethal. Be sure to have proper training and equipment if you choose to work around it. Do your research, and be fully trained and informed before attempting ANY work around these systems.

If you're interested in troubleshooting your drive individually, we'll also gladly assist you to do so as offered. It will require some very complex and high rate multi channel, high rate, monitoring equipment. You'll need to know voltage and current simultaneously for more than 10 channels of data, as well as data recording of an adjustable load and resultant RPM. If you have such equipment available, we'll help you to configure it.

An important note - you'll need a drive and motor system operating to test. Servo drives will not operate without closed loop feedback. Unlike an open loop AC VFD for example used in our high speed system, you can't just "turn on" a servo drive without a motor load, and correlating feedback signal. If you attempt to start a drive without proper connections (partially connected), you can defeat motor fault protections and destroy the drive output section instantly (but the drive's processor will know all about how it died ...)

So, in short you'll need to monitor :

- DC, 3 phases, voltage and current, from 0-320 volts, 0-30 amps peak.

- DC, 3 channels of sensor (hall) feedback and bus (5V) (common signal ground)

- AC, input, 2 lines to ground, 0-30 amps peak, 110V nominal each / 220V across.

- Earth Ground current (high rate)

- Motor case temp (low rate)

- Drive sink temp (low rate)

- Resultant RPM

- Variable Torque load capable of sinking 3.5 ft lbs at 5000 rpm continuous and peak loads of 7 ft lbs. (known/monitored brake load of ~ 2500 watts or better roughly and 4kw peak). This also needs to be low inertia and continuous but variable torque (5 lbs additional inertia or less).

Note that changing the rotary inertia on the drive, above maximum spec tool weight, could destroy the spindle and machine bearings if tested on the machine (as well as being hard on the motor and drive) - depending on other variables (rate of load, etc). Even 5 extra lbs of spinning mass has a huge effect. Using for example a 56 frame device that had ~ 25 lbs of rotating mass to absorb / transmit energy would be very destructive. Note that even a machining center of twice the size/structure/power may not be specified at 10 lb tool weight.

When setting up your tests, remember your monitoring needs to be fully isolated, and simultaneous to get the whole picture. Also note that these servo drives vary multiple variables simultaneously, per phase, to achieve the output regulation, so just looking at one channel, or phase, per time is not sufficient. This is several times more complex than say an "advanced" sensor-less 3 phase VFD, or brushed servo drive. In short, this is why the "noise" changes as the drive is loaded and unloaded. Think of it like a modern vehicle on cruise control going up and down hills, shifting, braking, and all the time protecting the vehicles systems.

Averaging or isolating any variable, such as voltage, frequency, or current, at low rate (even a few times a second) will not suffice to determine the whole picture either and likely will be very mis-leading. Additionally, To catch transients, data rates on electrical signals need to exceed 4 mhz per channel on the DC power & signal side (Signal rates approach 400 hz and you'll need to understand what is happening at this rate - so roughly 10x as fast).

In regards to questions about the motor :

Motors are Nema 48 frame and are custom wound.
2008 drives use 8 pole motors operating at 3500 RPM
2009-2011 drives use 4 pole motors operating at 5000 RPM

Also note that per your previous request, the front page of our website details the standard BLDC spindle development and manufacturing, and has done so since 2009.

For 2009-2011 1610L standard motors, Peak motor current is 30 amps. Peak rated continuous RPM is 6000 (we de-rate). Peak voltage is 320 VDC. Motor variables and winding is proprietary, and not required for troubleshooting.

There are 2 simple motor checks to perform however to troubleshoot :

1) output of the sensor feedback. Our 2009-2011 drives have red LED's, near the sensor connector, which give instant feedback without needing additional test equipment. All 3 sensors need to activate and de-activate properly as the motor rotates. At high rates, all three LED's will appear to be "on" but blinking at a very high rate.

2) Phase continuity - all three phases should be continuous. If not, you have a burned out phase (not common unless the motor has been run far over load/duty cycle and more or less melted).

Note that we have also built semi-custom -L servo drive machines of higher and lower RPM per customer specification as well (for applications such as working with ceramic materials).

Remember that AC and DC drives (standard and high speed) are not output / connection fault protected (and basically can't be in most cases) for protection against reverse polarity to DC or back feeding of current to signal lines between the motor and drive, or dead short in some configurations of cases. If your monitoring equipment causes a ground loop, you'll destroy at least the drive, and possibly the motor position (hall) sensor device, and possibly test equipment (some devices are not protected up to 320 volts DC at the amounts of current available). Pretty tough to destroy a motor phase, but it's also possible.

We pass along cost of our drives and parts, as with limit switches. 2012 pricing/cost for a standard -L spindle servo drive is $1345 USD, and has a core requirement. Motors are priced at $1085 and also require a core.

Realize that if we get a warranty claim, without additional data, that a motor or drive has been destroyed for a fault within this sub-system (between the motor and drive), we'll likely have to decline it. 2009-2011 drives are very, very well protected, if you operate/connect as intended.

We'll post some of the data on standard spindle drive performance for review, relative to similarly sized drive systems of other types that we have tested using the same equipment on our machines. Note that there are "graphs" out there regarding spindle performance that are mis-leading, likely due to lack of data on the particular components, sizes, and values being presented.

If it's of interest, we can also post some information on the fundamentals of drive technology and input signals, such as what the differences between an AC and DC servo, various types of open loop drives, etc. Very complex topic

Lastly, to comprehensively document the nature of events, we suggest you'll need about 100 hours of data, which is what we do in bench tests for spindle drive consistency. We suggest starting and stopping on a 20 minute cycle at 67% duty, and performing tests at at least 5 points of load and RPM (25 total points). Ideally, it helps to do so with an automated device.

We know a Ton about various drive and control systems, and more than happy to share, everything that isn't proprietary about how we produce or the exacting specifics that would be required to replicate our systems. We've got far too much time and money invested, and drive system finite detail specifics are a critical piece of core intellectual property that allows our machines to perform to the levels they do. No different for your new Ford truck, and it's components, for that matter.

Any luck on getting say transmission or ECU internal schematics and firmware from Ford ? Free dyno test ? :stickpoke (Just trying to keep it light and entertaining having been there ourselves on various other projects over the years ... please don't take offense.)

Let us know how we can help further.

To all - Have a great weekend - Be safe - Be productive (or not if that's the goal).

Mikini Mechatronics, LLC

I am trying to troubleshoot speed dropping issues at low speed and low torque operation at low speed. I have NO interest in reverse engineering your drive. Truly. I am curious, and I am motivated, and I will figure it out on my own if I have to. But you are committed to your customers, and you want to be as open source as possible, so I thought I would give you a chance to help out your customer base. How about it?

Once again, can you provide the following specs on the spindle motor:

Resistance, in Ohms
Inductance, in milli-Henry
Ke - Peak, in Volts per 1000 RPM
Rated Current - Peak, in Amps
Number of Poles

Thanks in advance.

[MIKINI MECH]

Great feedback.

We fully understand the perception given by the complex limitations we have to work within. It's in our opinion, an unfortunate reality of the society we all live within, in this country.

We've also dealt with substantial breaches of intellectual property, within the industry in the past, as well as liability issues. In short, we've been there. For those manufacturers and companies who haven't in any industry, it's only a matter of time.

There are a huge number of assertions on these forums in regards to our organization (and we'll suggest, on any internet site, about any manufacturer, of nearly anything) that are either partially or wholly untrue. In many cases, we have email or hard documentation, directly to users that we could post to dispute exaggerations of facts. We don't believe it is professional, expected, or our place, to do so. Nor will you find Ford doing so - to continue the analogy used by another user. We're more than happy to help with any information that is helpful and of value.

We're not perfect, but we do strive to exceed industry norms, expectations and goals.

For example on ESD protection - There are years of history on the subject in our organization. We have and do use USD protective devices, storage and transport devices, and coatings on all of our electronics, since the inception of manufacturing. We did use ESD protective packing materials on customer warranty service claims for an extended period. We then split service shipments into "re-packed" and "returned as received", and analyzed the results, which were nearly unaffected. We've gone to re-packed across the board for warranty service, and as noted, are considering going back to re-packing, or perhaps even a call tag process in the future.

We would like to provide as much value to our customers, and the industry, as possible. We're all ears on what subjects, topics, improvements, etc, would do so. We encourage the long post if you have it.

Not attempting to be defensive in any way. Certain information we can share, and will gladly do so. Other information we can't, nor would any organization in our position. Not defensive, just the facts and limitations of our society.

Mikini Mechatronics, LLC

I had a long post, but I'm going to shorten it.

I'm looking for a CNC machine of this size and capability to use at work, which is a world class product development and design firm. This machine is very well put together on paper and has excellent details. Great work on that.

But, you appear to have a quality control issue with your electronics, the ESD bag comment was insightful by one user, everyone uses them, they are pink, you put electronics in them - period. If you are not doing that, what else are you missing.

Your posture on this forum is defensive, and paranoid. I'm sure you have only good intentions, but this is how you are being perceived. These places are valuable ways to help promote and let the user base provide free support for each other. But they need a foundation of technical information and cooperation. I agree that you are talking - but adding no value to this section. Value is what people are interested in buying into.

Please don't get even more defensive. Simply answer peoples questions and share details about the machines that will help users keep them running and building cool stuff. The reference to the Tormach section is a very good one.

Best of luck in the new year, the machine does look very nice.

[MIKINI MECH]

In a previous post, we offered to present spindle torque and output graphs to assist a user in understanding of a system. Attached is that documentation, which was prepared for, and will also be on our new website.

There are 3 graphs here and a chart.

- Load response

Load response details what happens to the actual operating RPM of a drive, when loaded on a machining center. Remember that axial drives will not compensate for spindle variation without a very advanced system, so any variance to load will affect thrust, axial load/power, surface finish, tooling life, and achieved precision.

You can feel this if you use a drill or saw and cut something with an AC, open loop motor. The motor changes tone, and the speed slows down. Same is true on an open loop spindle drive on a machining center. Servo drives "push back" by changing frequency, voltage, current, etc. If you fully overload an AC system, the drive, generally, does not know about the overload, and the motor stops and starts to melt ("locked rotor").

If you overload a servo drive, it simply shuts down (and in this case also tells our axial drives to shut down within about 1/100 of a second), protecting the machine from significant damage and loading from shoving a non-operating tool into "something".

- RPM vs Power

This is the actual difference between 3 different combinations of drives and motors. If you're wondering how a 1 HP AC motor with a 2 hp VFD drive (think bench top machine) compares to a 2 hp motor with a 3 hp drive (Think knee mill), to a 3 HP servo drive - here's the data.

This also is why AC machines with traditional drives often have narrower speed ranges, 2 speed controlled transmissions, or in manual machines - belts for multiple ratios. See where the torque starts higher up the RPM scale - this is what is being compensated for.

There are other graphs out there that compare BLDC servo and AC open loop motors that don't have data/details and appear theoretical.

It's true you could under-size a BLDC system and scale the axis to get the graph that has been presented. But take 2 systems that are around 20-25 lbs each, test, and you'll get this data. Otherwise the power density and constant torque characteristics make no sense (as a user has pointed out).

A linear power curve / constant torque, also allows the very simple programming (scaling RPM scales power) and is also ideal for machine, bearing, and precision/tooling life - as thrusts end up staying the same as intended.

You can run feed/speed 10/1000 20/2000 30/3000, etc (if the power demand of the application is linear) to prove out tooling, fixtures, etc. Basically less variables are changing at the same time as torque is constant.

These are the "power curves".

This should be well versed information, specific to a tool, for any machine tool operator and programmer, for any automated machine tool. Attempting to program a tool without comprehensive knowledge of a power curve is a hugely frustrating experience, as you're guessing at how much power/torque is available.

However, it's a common point of confusion in the industry. Scale things up, and things get more expensive fast.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/haas_m...er_curves.html

Yes - there are systems that are [B]wildly[/B] expensive that will slow the machine down to compensate for spindle or axial loading. But it's not your typical machining center that will do so - think way exotic.

- Torque

Torque is how much "grunt" a system has at a given RPM ? Always the same for an advanced servo drive generally, and most at a "center" or "sweet" spot for most open loop systems. This also presents graphically what 5:1 or 20:1 or "linear" refers to (the flat top part).

If you had a transmission, you'd have multiple curves for each system at different ratios.

This is one of the strong suits of a brushless motor, as well as extreme life (no brushes to wear and replace all the time), and constant performance.

These are the "torque curves"

- Power density

More important than you might ever think. Who cares about 30 lbs on a device that weighs 2000 lbs ? Turns out it makes a world of difference to bearing life, selection for precision, and is a key driver of machine systemic design.

Helpful ? Confusing ? Indifferent ? Welcome any and all feedback.

---

Mikini Mechatronics, llc

[Al_The_Man]

An important safety note before continuing. DC is far more dangerous than AC. If you make a mistake working around the DC high voltage bus, it likely will be lethal. No second chances here like ~200VAC.

ElectroMedical fact
It is not voltage that is lethal, it is current of the right level of any flavour.
100ma and over is considered lethal whatever the source.
Al.

[MIKINI MECH]

That's quite accurate, and for AC, the current level is on the money.

Many people, even well trained in AC safety, have little knowledge of the hazards of HVDC.

Here's a link to what currents at various levels are noted to cause.

Ohm's Law (again!) : ELECTRICAL SAFETY

And DC (direct current) presents dangers that AC (alternating current) does not, and affects the body in a different way. If you've ever gotten a low voltage/low current DC shock, you'll be very aware of how scary it is. Yes, a 12v car battery, can, and will shock you, if you have hands that are wet.

If you got a low voltage, high current shock, well, you would have nothing to say on the topic, ever again.

Safety manual from unm.edu

Note the fact that DC will discharge to your bodies capacitance. Our drives will dump an instantly lethal current, though dry skin, even when totally disconnected from AC if not discharged. Check out the big capacitor bank ....

What is the maximum DC voltage, that is not lethal?

read down a bit - focus on the post regarding DC voltages over 200V. System could be over 300V. Poor English in the post, but get the idea ?.

Very serious topic.

We fully understand it may come off as paranoia if you're not aware of the issues. We live around these systems day in and day out in production and R&D.

Anyone servicing our machine systems is required by our documentation and machine labeling to have proper knowledge of these topics, training, and safety equipment available, prior to attempting service. Attempting to do so without is beyond inadvisable. Information is often available for DC-HV safety surrounding issues of hybrid vehicle servicing and large scale solar installations for reference as well.

Be Safe.

Mikini Mechatronics, LLC

ElectroMedical fact
It is not voltage that is lethal, it is current of the right level of any flavour.
100ma and over is considered lethal whatever the source.
Al.

[mcphill]

VERY helpful, thanks. Not sure of the usefulness until I digest it longer.

I do have to say I don't believe the Torque Output curve presented. It just does not match with my "gut feel" experience. Can you suggest a way to challenge/test those values safely? My impression is the curve looks much more like the 1 HP AC Conventional shape shown in the graph (or maybe the 1.5 hp vector).

[mcphill]

Sounds like all the more reason to post ALL the pinouts... In the name of safety.

[Al_The_Man]

If you got a low voltage, high current shock, well, you would have nothing to say on the topic, ever again.

After 50+ years in the electrical/industrial electronic business I have lost track of the zaps I have had from just about every source there is.
Al.

[slowtwitch]

Looking at the new specs..Version 3. I see that you have changed the spindle board and motor.

[MIKINI MECH]

The only place that DC HV is present in the system is on the 3 output pins of the spindle drives. Worth documenting this in the machine schematic as well as warnings on the physical drive itself, which is a good suggestion

Mikini Mechatronics, LLC

Sounds like all the more reason to post ALL the pinouts... In the name of safety.

[MIKINI MECH]

We're not aware of a simple, low cost, safe, and accurate way to test what you are requesting.

We test our systems (and have done so of others) extensively to generate the data behind the charts we publish. We posted at length how the drive can be tested for input and output. It requires a huge investment in test equipment and setup, as documented. We're here to help, if you wish to do so.

If you wish to focus on the output side, testing could be done alone ignoring the input metrics. It will still require a constant torque brake, of less than 5 lbs inertia, with torque or ideally power (Rpm and torque) monitoring, capable of the amount of power dissipation at the rate (RPM), Power, and duty cycle you wish to test to. Essentially a low inertia, 5000 RPM, 3 HP+ dyno. The other issue is ensuring you don't damage spindle or axial bearing systems in doing so. Still not a simple thing to do.

We encourage you to verify the fundamental torque characteristics of a brushless DC drive, which will also confirm this "curve". Tons of information on the web, on the topic. It's possible to get a lower or higher torque for any system, but the "shape" of a torque curve is generated by the motor/drive physics in big picture.

"guessing" or "feeling" isn't a great measure here. Do be very aware that open and closed loop systems "feel" and "sound" very, very different under load. It's why we have not one, but two load meters on our control systems, each with important information (instant and average loads).

Imagine what would happen if your table saw had a servo drive, and never slowed down until you hit ultimate load. To take it to a little bit of an extreme, what if it even sped up as the stock was fed faster to keep the thrust into the saw the same (constant chip rate) ?. Other than if you had a load meter - you'd have - nearly - no idea of what the load applied to the drive was, as the operator. More you push, the more it would push back.

In an open loop, manual process, as an AC drive is loaded, it slows, makes different noises, the operator backs off, then allowing a drive to speed back up (operator is closing the loop). This is what we're used to on a drill press or a manual machine. Other than very, very complex CNC controls, this luxury is not afforded to the drive systems of an automated machine (unless the operator runs over and slaps feed hold or cuts the feed rate as he sees a load peg or hears an AC drive start to fail).

What it comes down to, is that the way to properly program and load a machining center is by the #, not by "feel" when it comes to spindle torque loads and axial drive thrusts. "Feel" is very important for other issues like harmonics, however.

The other thing to realize is the inertia and breakdown torque of various drive systems have very different "feels" and effects on downstream systems due to torsional vibration and stored energy. Whole different thing to have a 40 lb 6" armature spinning at 5000 RPM vs a 20 lb 4.75" one. Both systems could be rated at, and produce, the same 3 hp and torque.

In simple terms, all other metrics even, the energy from a larger (more massive, but same power) drive, would tear apart precision bearings rated for a smaller drive, even of the same power and RPM, in a very short matter of time.

Think of the torsional vibration gearbox requirements for a 100 HP diesel at 1800 RPM vs 100 HP turbine (just to book end things in extremes ...)

Helpful ?

Mikini Mechatronics, LLC

VERY helpful, thanks. Not sure of the usefulness until I digest it longer.

I do have to say I don't believe the Torque Output curve presented. It just does not match with my "gut feel" experience. Can you suggest a way to challenge/test those values safely? My impression is the curve looks much more like the 1 HP AC Conventional shape shown in the graph (or maybe the 1.5 hp vector).

[Spinnetti]

Man, the internet forums are a hostile audience!

I found the original post refreshing. Having worked as a engineer and formerly machinist at a smaller company, I think it was the right balance of feedback. You'll never "win" arguing with people on the internet! One that that would be helpful however is a FAQ of issues and solutions that are of the highest volume.

I really like the look of the machine, but posts about spindle motor and drive issues, company size and lack of product depth has kinda scared me off. This thread will have me take another look before I decide....

[MIKINI MECH]

Great feedback.

Would love more details on what more in "product depth" information you're looking for. Feel free to be in touch at any time.

Have a great weekend, to all

Mikini Mechatronics, LLC

Man, the internet forums (especially these sorts) are full of hostile people!

I found the original post refreshing. Having worked as a engineer and formerly machinist at a smaller company, I think it was the right balance of feedback. You'll never "win" arguing with people on the internet! One that that would be helpful however is a FAQ of issues and solutions that are of the highest volume.

I really like the look of the machine, but company size and lack of product depth has kinda scared me off. This thread will have me take another look before I decide....

[Spinnetti]

Great feedback.

Would love more details on what more in "product depth" information you're looking for. Feel free to be in touch at any time.

Have a great weekend, to all

Mikini Mechatronics, LLC

What I mean is that you have from a "retail" standpoint just the one machine. I know your site says you do lots of custom stuff, but no matter how good the product, its a lot of money to spend for what is (for me) a toy, and not having a fuller product line makes you more vulnerable to market fluctuations. Not trying to imply anything, I just want to be real confident that 5-10 years from now, I can still get parts and/or service....

That said, I really like a lot of what you have to offer, but that won't fit through my shop door. can the upper bit get unbolted and taken off to fit through a standard doorway?

By the way, your website really needs an update (price doesn't match page to page, future releases listed as 2009 etc...) - its your public face; a good website means a lot!

[MIKINI MECH]

Thanks for the feedback. A new website is very close, and we're excited about the new content and features.

Great question regarding installation. We don't recommend dis-assembly of our machining centers. They are designed to fit (just) through a 36" door, fully assembled, sideways. Note that other machines with similar travel are even wider - the packaging design is very tight in other words.

This said, we've helped many customers deal with custom rigging solutions to drop through floors and ceilings, or through door frames with modifications. We have overhead lift kits, vertical power drops, and will help you meet your needs anyway we can.

What's the clearance you're trying to achieve for the "standard" doorway ?. Many doors are 36, but there's everything from about 30"-42" in the industry. There are even 48" and 28" doors, but those become less common, pretty fast.

Also note that you'll need either an industrial or solid slab floor for operation and installation of our machine tools due to static and dynamic floor loads. Industrial floors may and generally do require a load spreading device/struture. Generally, not worth considering installation of any machining center on anything less than a 70 lb/ft engineered floor - and even that takes some serious work and we highly recommend review of/by a structural engineer.

Great leader on the subject of application, and would love comments on what's important for your needs, and what's not as much. We're looking at a third version of the 1610 platform targeted below the -L for 2013.

We have the second version of the 1610 series machine (-LP) coming out for 2012, and it's on the price lists on this site, and will be on the new website as well. It's a higher production version of the L with an ATC and the optional axial servo drives standard.

Mikini Mechatronics, LLC

What I mean is that you have from a "retail" standpoint just the one machine. I know your site says you do lots of custom stuff, but no matter how good the product, its a lot of money to spend for what is (for me) a toy, and not having a fuller product line makes you more vulnerable to market fluctuations. Not trying to imply anything, I just want to be real confident that 5-10 years from now, I can still get parts and/or service....

That said, I really like a lot of what you have to offer, but that won't fit through my shop door. can the upper bit get unbolted and taken off to fit through a standard doorway?

By the way, your website really needs an update (price doesn't match page to page, future releases listed as 2009 etc...) - its your public face; a good website means a lot!

[slowtwitch]

Regarding posting internal pinouts - Seemingly simple request, and wish we could do exactly as requested. It's on a big poster in the shop along with the other definitions for manufacturing and service.

Let's start with some useful information.....How about we start with this one.... What is the pin out of the db9 connector from the spindle board to the main board??? May be helpful to some....

Most other machine manufactures publish and label/document far less information, or even totally lock down the software for interfacing, and the signals into and out-of machines. Go take a look at just about any other machine and machine documents and then take another look at our systems.

Mikini Mechatronics, LLC [/QUOTE]

Here is an example of a nice owners manual

http://server2.smithy.com/media/pdf/...ual%202008.pdf

It even has the pin outs for thier spindle connections
__________________

[jid2]

Man this is painful. I feel for you guys. I'm out.

[MIKINI MECH]

Please contact us if you need assistance interfacing with one of our machine tools.

Note that the last pages of our operators manuals include a full machine schematic, and interface pin-outs (or pin-"ins"), for all functions, including spindle control.

Perhaps this is missing or unclear for some reason for some users. It has been included in every revision of our machine's operators manuals since 2008. If it is, we're here to help.

For reference, here is a repeat of those values, found in our manuals. Sorry, the formatting allowed by this forum posting tool is not ideal.

These can also be confirmed (and are found in) our Mach 3 configuration files, which allow full configuration, and are not protected from user review in any manner. To reiterate, many other, but not all, CNC machine tools lock these files or configurations.

This supplied mach 3 configuration file will configure Mach 3 so that no translation of these values is required by the user (drop the file in Mach 3, load the profile, and you're all set). If you need a new configuration file, please contact us directly and will will provide you with file for your machine.

• PIN No. ---- NAME / FUNCTION
• 1 XDRI ---- X AXIS DIRECTION IN
• 2 XCWI ---- X AXIS PULSE IN
• 3 YDRI ---- Y AXIS DIRECTION IN
• 4 YCWI ----Y AXIS PULSE IN
• 5 ZDRI ---- Z AXIS DIRECTION IN
• 6 ZCWI ---- Z AXIS PULSE IN
• 7 ADRI ---- A AXIS DIRECTION IN
• 8 ACWI ---- A AXIS PULSE IN
• 9 CLPI ---- COOLANT PUMP SIGNAL IN
• 10 XHOMEO---- X AXIS HOME SIGNAL OUT
• 11 YHOMEO---- Y AXIS HOME SIGNAL OUT
• 12 ZHOMEO----Z AXIS HOME SIGNAL OUT
• 13 AHOMEO A AXIS HOME SIGNAL OUT
• 14 CHPI ---- CNC MODE ENABLE SIGNAL IN
• 15 ESTOP -EMERGENCY STOP SIGNAL OUT
• 16 SDR ---- SPINDLE DIRECTION IN
• 17 SCW ---- SPINDLE PWM SIGNAL IN
• 18 DGND ---- GROUND
  (all remaining pins Ground)

Again, if any user needs assistance, please feel free to contact us and we'll gladly provide support.

Mikini Mechatronics, LLC [/QUOTE]

Here is an example of a nice owners manual

http://server2.smithy.com/media/pdf/...ual%202008.pdf

It even has the pin outs for thier spindle connections
__________________[/QUOTE]