[zmajmr]

I just forgot to tell you that I read that you need to apply some light oil on spindle before press fitting and after that spindle with clamping cylinder need to be dynamical balanced and before that you need to pack bearings with some quality grease, I saw that best that you can buy as people say is Kluber grease, I used SKF grease for low temperature and high speeds, that is almost as Kluber by characteristics (Isoflex something) , I hope you will get advice from someone who is expert in this field (greasing bearings).

There is lot of things that you need to know if you want to make job well.

I marked every single bolt so I know letter where every bolt need to be , took picture how are all parts were aligned, I scraped little numbers on parts so I hope there will be no vibrations at higher speeds.

[mike^3]

Thanks so much for your posts, I too will have to fabricate some things to remove the spindle and bearings. What kind of lathe was that?

Also that picture with the bearing configuration, which one did you chose? The << or <> >< >>?

If you look at the pics from the head stock, there is a lip on the back, like a recessed ring, I will attempt to use gear-pullers with reversed fingers and push from the back forward, Not sure if it will I will give it a try. At least when it goes back in all I have to do is cut a piece of steel and draw the the spindle back in from the back ;D. I will be taking lots of pics along the way



Mike

[zmajmr]

Thanks so much for your posts, I too will have to fabricate some things to remove the spindle and bearings. What kind of lathe was that?

Also that picture with the bearing configuration, which one did you chose? The << or <> >< >>?

If you look at the pics from the head stock, there is a lip on the back, like a recessed ring, I will attempt to use gear-pullers with reversed fingers and push from the back forward, Not sure if it will I will give it a try. At least when it goes back in all I have to do is cut a piece of steel and draw the the spindle back in from the back ;D. I will be taking lots of pics along the way



Mike

I chose factory configuration << >>, and machine is Emco Turn 220 P, here is link of my thread in progress

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/vertic...urn_220_p.html

And here is link of machine similar to mine where you probably want to use something similar to remove spindle

Emco Compact 6 Retrofit @ DIESELRC.COM

last 3 pictures

Good luck with pulling spindle

[mike^3]

Thanks! By the way, what controller did you use, mach 3, linux cnc?

[zmajmr]

Thanks! By the way, what controller did you use, mach 3, linux cnc?

will be using mach 3, you can see all the equipment in video, hybrid stepper motors 4 Nm (2 pieces) and 2 Nm (1) for turret

Part 4 CNC lathe story - YouTube

[mike^3]

Great video, I too have hybrid servos, how are the working for you? Mine are nema 34 8nm for each axis, and for the turret I am just going to use the original air motor with switches to sense the actual turret position. I have found lots of tool macros on line for that lathe, pretty easy when you use a stepper. Altough I am very tempted to use a hybrid servo instead....Not sure if I will get the same rapid tool changes though...

[zmajmr]

Great video, I too have hybrid servos, how are the working for you? Mine are nema 34 8nm for each axis, and for the turret I am just going to use the original air motor with switches to sense the actual turret position. I have found lots of tool macros on line for that lathe, pretty easy when you use a stepper. Altough I am very tempted to use a hybrid servo instead....Not sure if I will get the same rapid tool changes though...

Motors are running good for now, they move only air XD, I run them on 84 V (bigger ones) and I expected that they will not be warm , but I guess I was wrong. Original motors where 5 phase Bergman Lahr and with no encoder, so this must be better , main advantage is they will run smooth at low RPM because of encoders . I do not know what to say about air motor, I do not know how that works, my turret was originally operated by small DC motor over planetary gears, and I am going to use 2 Nm hybrid stepper motor just because I have card that supports 3 axis, I saw on youtube that you can do that, just need to get to that point that all mechanically is prepared and after that will have to program some macros as I understand from some videos.

I do not know if I understand you good but there is no difference between stepper and hybrid servo (or hybrid stepper as I call it) you get same signal from card only drivers take care about real and theoretical position of shaft of motor so you can use tool macros or you were talking about using air motor for turret.

[zmajmr]

http://www.schaeffler.com/remotemedi.../sp1_de_en.pdf

Page 56 section Fitting, you have table , nut tightening torques , so when you will tighten nut on spindle you do not want over kill.

I am just looking through my materials that I collected in couple of months so I thought it maybe useful.

[mike^3]

Hi, absolutely anything is helpful I remember the tech mentioning that same thing, you want in snug but not super tight. Did you have much difficulty removing the bearings on the shaft?

[zmajmr]

Hi, absolutely anything is helpful I remember the tech mentioning that same thing, you want in snug but not super tight. Did you have much difficulty removing the bearings on the shaft?

I did not have difficulty because I used my press, only thing that rear 2 bearings fell out of spindle and front 2 bearings came down from their places near the flange, and spindle have in the middle section smaller diameter then on front and rear part, so I decided to cut them with small abrasive disc, alternative would be to make new tool for pulling inner races of bearing but that would be waste of time because I destroyed bearings already, balls pooped out of bearings and they where deformed, I even bought new balls and replaced them but that was not it, it is easier to assemble bearing then to disassemble them, anyway those angular contact bearings are not designed for all those things that I did but now I am more smarter.

[mike^3]

Thanks for the manual resource, gave me lots of info!

For the bearings ill just press them off.

Did u get ur ways reground?

I'm going to get the ways reground, there is some slight corrosion and it's just doesn't look great and I want to restore accuracy

[zmajmr]

Thanks for the manual resource, gave me lots of info!

For the bearings ill just press them off.

Did u get ur ways reground?

I'm going to get the ways reground, there is some slight corrosion and it's just doesn't look great and I want to restore accuracy

Hi

Your welcome, I did not reground ways, it would be nice that I do that but maybe one day I will, for now I just want to make machine functional. I uploaded new video in my thread so you can see what is rust . My machine was not conserved properly so rust managed to eat some little spots on bed ways. I noticed just like you that cross slide is moving easy in the middle of working area, and more resistance at the end, because in the middle bed ways are worn from years of use. My ball screws are practically for garbage but will use them until figure out will I order new one or something else. Pair of ball screws for z and x axis cost 1000 euro plus VAT and who knows what more.

I am making this machine for myself so it does not to be perfect restoration, you if you have plans to sell them need to make perfect restoration, I guess.

Anyway keep good work and put more pics of your progress.

[mike^3]

Hey

So you could get your ballscrews reground, I am considering this, but I will wait till the machine is completely together before doing so. I will test the accuracy and backlash. I will probably have to regrind or purchase one z axis ballscrew, I can feel a very small amount of axial play in the nut, but no longitudinal play, so it may still be holding tolerances.

As for the ballscrew cover, there is a series of small steel cylinders that collapse on eachother to protect the ball screw. I am not a big fan of this because oil, grease, water, and chips could get in the ball screw, especially water and waterbased coolant. So I will attempt to find an accordion style ball screw cover and adapt it to replace the old ball screw cover.

I attempted to cold blue one of the cylinders without much success, I will post pics online tomorrow my phone wont upload pics to cnczone ;(. I did however find a gunsmith that would hot blue them back to factory spec for a few hundred bucks, I may just want to buy the hot salts and do it myself, I have a lot of parts that I want to blue. The spindle Pulley (outside only), ball screw covers, hardware, some of the steel plates and covers, I'd love to blue the cover plates on the machine, but we will see .

I did a lot of electrical diagram work and electrical testing. I finally got the hybrid servos to work great, took a minute to figure out but its working now. Something that I did not take into account was the large amount of inputs and outputs that I needed. I will have to use my 3rd lpt port on the Ethernet SmoothStepper to accomplish this. Heck I need 8 inputs alone for the turret indexor, an input to sense turret down/turret up. I will need a door alarm input, I will need some oemtriggers for cycle start, feed hold, stop, reset, these will be mounted on the panel with the main screen. My MPG will be handheld and will have a lot of function on it so I wont have to worry about that.

I will need a heck of alot of outputs to trigger the air solenoids probably 20. Some for the coolant, and other things along the way.

I will be taking the beds up to Birmingham alabama tuesday to get the reground. Ill spend the day there and then drive back that afternoon with them. 5 hour drive...but it will be so worth it!

Till tomorrow

[zmajmr]

Hey

So you could get your ballscrews reground, I am considering this, but I will wait till the machine is completely together before doing so. I will test the accuracy and backlash. I will probably have to regrind or purchase one z axis ballscrew, I can feel a very small amount of axial play in the nut, but no longitudinal play, so it may still be holding tolerances.

As for the ballscrew cover, there is a series of small steel cylinders that collapse on eachother to protect the ball screw. I am not a big fan of this because oil, grease, water, and chips could get in the ball screw, especially water and waterbased coolant. So I will attempt to find an accordion style ball screw cover and adapt it to replace the old ball screw cover.

I attempted to cold blue one of the cylinders without much success, I will post pics online tomorrow my phone wont upload pics to cnczone ;(. I did however find a gunsmith that would hot blue them back to factory spec for a few hundred bucks, I may just want to buy the hot salts and do it myself, I have a lot of parts that I want to blue. The spindle Pulley (outside only), ball screw covers, hardware, some of the steel plates and covers, I'd love to blue the cover plates on the machine, but we will see .

I did a lot of electrical diagram work and electrical testing. I finally got the hybrid servos to work great, took a minute to figure out but its working now. Something that I did not take into account was the large amount of inputs and outputs that I needed. I will have to use my 3rd lpt port on the Ethernet SmoothStepper to accomplish this. Heck I need 8 inputs alone for the turret indexor, an input to sense turret down/turret up. I will need a door alarm input, I will need some oemtriggers for cycle start, feed hold, stop, reset, these will be mounted on the panel with the main screen. My MPG will be handheld and will have a lot of function on it so I wont have to worry about that.

I will need a heck of alot of outputs to trigger the air solenoids probably 20. Some for the coolant, and other things along the way.

I will be taking the beds up to Birmingham alabama tuesday to get the reground. Ill spend the day there and then drive back that afternoon with them. 5 hour drive...but it will be so worth it!

Till tomorrow

Hi

I know for that option, to reground ball screws, only thing is that nobody do those kind of things in area where I live or maybe in whole country. I saw lot of companies in USA do those kind of things, I guess you have lot of machines with ballscrews there. My idea was to clean ballscrews (which I did ) and inspect condition, I found inside of ballscrew nut lot of things, debris from smashed balls, somebody already tried to compensate wear with inserting larger balls. So I can use them now as they are but there is visible backlash, probably I can compensate that with Mach3 but if I would not be happy maybe I will buy new one, it is very important thing , same as spindle bearings. When you buy something cheap there is always reason for that so I do not complain.

I never heard for cold blue so I will be waiting for new pics to see what is that. If you want and have will you can record process of regrounding your ways on your machines, that would be cool to see on youtube.

Maybe you can buy PLC for you turret, maybe I will need to buy one, I have lot of sensors and valves on my machine too.

I have card with almost all what you need for basic CNC lathe but I have a feeling that maybe that will not enough for all those things in my machine.

Well, till tomorrow :cheers:

[mike^3]

Well for ballscrews you may want to buy some from a china supplier, they are ok for a lathe such as yours, where heavy duty may not be a constant. But yes ballscrews are very important, No use having a nice machine that can't hold 0.001". Your machine should be able to hold that if you put even some cheap ballscrews in. How long it will hold that, I am unsure. Have you looked at NSK ballscrews here in the US? Don't know about shipping but if you found some, see how much shipping would be to you.

As for the grinding process, I will be delivering them to a shop, so I might be able to video them grinding them down and making them look good. Hell I might even get a discount because Ill post the video on youtube , advertisement !.

Youtube Cold bluing and hot bluing, mostly done to guns here in the US. Hot gun bluing is a great search also.

Ill update more pics tomorrow ;D

[zmajmr]

Well for ballscrews you may want to buy some from a china supplier, they are ok for a lathe such as yours, where heavy duty may not be a constant. But yes ballscrews are very important, No use having a nice machine that can't hold 0.001". Your machine should be able to hold that if you put even some cheap ballscrews in. How long it will hold that, I am unsure. Have you looked at NSK ballscrews here in the US? Don't know about shipping but if you found some, see how much shipping would be to you.

As for the grinding process, I will be delivering them to a shop, so I might be able to video them grinding them down and making them look good. Hell I might even get a discount because Ill post the video on youtube , advertisement !.

Youtube Cold bluing and hot bluing, mostly done to guns here in the US. Hot gun bluing is a great search also.

Ill update more pics tomorrow ;D

Hi

Thx for bluing, (cold one , I did not know what is that) for hot I heard , even I have thought will I bring parts to make them nicer, I removed surface layer of black stuff while removing rust.

Here I post my pics of ballscrews, the biggest is NSK, middle one is Kuroda and smaller ones are Tsubaki, all are made in Japan, so I know how new ballscrews have to look and perform, other pic is part where you can see wear, even in nut there is similar surface, like there is missing material. The best thing would be to buy new pair , but like I said there is lot of things to do before that, ballscrews work but probably not as good while they where new. I saw chinese ballscrews from e bay, but thing is nut, my nut is kinda specific and there is 2 row of circulation of balls inside nut.





Sorry if I mix your thread with my pics, maybe some discussion will develop, I do not know. I asked in my thread couple of questions but no answers, so I learn all by myself and it feels good when you can help to someone.

[mike^3]

No Prob I never caught your name, im Mike and its a pleasure to help .

So, I would spend the most money on 3 things. Ballsrews, spindle bearings, ways, and electronics. These all are functions of accuracy. Any one of these fail then your done.

We can chat all day about machine LOL.

I did find someone local that can regrind my ways! about 250$ each, not bad...I will ask if I could video tape the process and share it with everyone! I won't regrind the actual side dovetails, as these show no measurable wear, the wear is simply the top middle.

Gonna swing by and drop them off today .

[zmajmr]

No Prob I never caught your name, im Mike and its a pleasure to help .

So, I would spend the most money on 3 things. Ballsrews, spindle bearings, ways, and electronics. These all are functions of accuracy. Any one of these fail then your done.

We can chat all day about machine LOL.

I did find someone local that can regrind my ways! about 250$ each, not bad...I will ask if I could video tape the process and share it with everyone! I won't regrind the actual side dovetails, as these show no measurable wear, the wear is simply the top middle.

Gonna swing by and drop them off today .

My name is Marko, ,my plan is almost same as yours only I will keep machine for myself so when I save enough money I will replace ballscrews, I got all electronics, my original plan is to convert hand operated lathe Quantum 210 x 400 mm to CNC (probably someone will say that is toy) but I learned lot of things on that machine and I can say it is really good, but when you make every week almost same things on lathe then CNC lathe come as logical solution for boring repetitive jobs. One day I saw this Emco and bought it for very little money and now I have lot of fun and work. I can watch all day CNC lathe machines how they make something haha

[mike^3]

FINALLY more pics!

So here is where I am at right now. I completely stripped the machine!!!!

As you can see, when I pulled the spindle out, some of the bearings stay inside. This was easy to take out, I used a 2" solid steel bar and just pressed the edge up again the inner race inside the bore and used a dead blow, they all cam right out. busted the bearings taking them out tho, they were junk anyway lol.

To take off the bed there are 28 bolts holding it on from the underside. This is easy if you hoist it sideways like in the pics. 2 bots are tricky, they are actually inside the conduit hose, you must take the hose off and wire out before you can get to it!

Here you can also see the ways taken off and how filthy the machine is. I will be pressure washing and painting everything, even the underneath. No stone unturned ;D.

Hopefully tomorrow I will have the ways reground. But I have a ton of work ahead of me still.

Heres the table with some of the parts that were hot blued in the past, such as the ballscrew covers. In an attempt to blue it back on my own, it did not go very well. But I watched a few videos on it, and they said you have to remove all the blueing and take it down to the bare metal for best results. So I will attempt that, and If I don't get great results, I will just send it off to a bluing company.

You can see a pic of the conduit that you have to take off in order for you to get to the last screws. Took a minute to figure out where those screws were LOL.

I finally got the hybrid servos working! WHOOT heres a pic .

The last pic is the inner spacer that preloads the bearings.

After a long debate between whether I should use LinuxCNC or Mach 3, I have chosen MACH 3. MACH 3 is so powerful and userfriendly. A lot of people support the product with development and opensource coding. For example, if I sold this machine to someone that wanted a light to go on every 10th part, you got add a light on the screen and tell it to flash when 10 complete programs are ran. Or perhaps when you run 15 programs an alarm will post a popup saying, "Make sure you check part thickness and tool WEAR!". Simple and powerful things like this are non-existant on industrial machines, and if you want them, you best be prepared to pay thousands of dollars for the software manufacturer to help you. With MACH 3, its free!

Tomorrow I will be sanding and prepping all the painted pieces that I must paint, it will most likely take a few days. I would hate to rush the prep work and end up with a crappy paint job. I have also decided on an offwhite color, I wanted to go with black but decided against it. Perhaps even a very light grey.

Mind you, I am doing all of this in my front shop, no expensive tools are needed. I did use my milling machine to make the spanner wrenches.

Once I regrind the ways I will most likely have to rescrap the spindle headstock base to match the bed, not a big deal I have a hand scraper. And have scraped before . The head stock base is scraped to match the bed, and if you regrind the bed parallel to itself you will loose a few thousands and will have to shim the bed. You then will have to mount everything back together minus the spindle pulleys, and put a precision steel bar in a brand new quality collet. You then run the axis up and down the shaft with an indicator. First align left to right. Then for the up and down you will have to scrap the base for that. Not a huge deal, just make sure your taking the same height off each side. Ill make a video of this when I do it.

Till tommorrw!

I am still looking for the rear x axis cover, the mac air valve solenoid that controls the stop paw/dog for the turret, and the x and z axes motor pulley, if anyone has these please let me know! I will buy them!

Mike

[zmajmr]

Hi Mike

I made video about my tools for spindle, maybe you can figure out something for your machine.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/vertic...ml#post1387440

Interesting how they made bed ways for your machine, I thought it was all from one piece.