[vmax549]

Also IF it was actually overloaded you would have seen position errors from teh servo drive long before an overheat situation would occur.

(;-) TP

[rcpilot82]

I don't know what a PID Value is or if that is something I can change. every motor I have tried acts the same even on different drives. I am wondering if there is something in the firmware that is contributing to this. I never had any position errors, it just trips out. I'll have to call DMM and ask them about the PID Values.

I am hoping that once I get this fixed the X and Y axis don't develop the same issue once they have a part being cut on them,

[mactec54]

I don't know what a PID Value is or if that is something I can change. every motor I have tried acts the same even on different drives. I am wondering if there is something in the firmware that is contributing to this. I never had any position errors, it just trips out. I'll have to call DMM and ask them about the PID Values.

I am hoping that once I get this fixed the X and Y axis don't develop the same issue once they have a part being cut on them,

Your X & Y will be fine,and if not there is plenty of adjustments that can be done with these to axes, their Gear ratio is more than what it needed, I just think there was a combination of things going on, so it's hard to nail down the total cause, mostly the ratio, not being what it should of been, for the motor being used

[mactec54]

We need to look at how everything happened, going bigger is not always better

You started with the 750W motor this had a 10 tooth Timing Pulley and the Pinion had a 40 Tooth Timing Pulley, you where at 4 :1 with this set up

Then you got a 1.3Kw motor you used a 18 Tooth Timing Pulley and the Pinion had the 40 Tooth Timing Pulley, this gave you a 2.2 : 1 with this set up, so for this to be equal to the first motor it needed to be 1.5Kw because of the gearing you used, if it could of stayed at 4 : 1 it most likely would of been working

So by using the larger motor you were worse off than just staying with the original,

Just changing the gearing just a bit lower, like 6 or 7 to 1 would of had you running

[gus]

We need to look at how everything happened, going bigger is not always better

You started with the 750W motor this had a 10 tooth Timing Pulley and the Pinion had a 40 Tooth Timing Pulley, you where at 4 :1 with this set up

Then you got a 1.3Kw motor you used a 18 Tooth Timing Pulley and the Pinion had the 40 Tooth Timing Pulley, this gave you a 2.2 : 1 with this set up, so for this to be equal to the first motor it needed to be 1.5Kw because of the gearing you used, if it could of stayed at 4 : 1 it most likely would of been working

So by using the larger motor you were worse off than just staying with the original,

Just changing the gearing just a bit lower, like 6 or 7 to 1 would of had you running

IF we are all using the same language, the ratio should be expressed in motor revolutions per inch of quill travel

when he had a 4:1 puller ratio he was at like 1.25:1, a far cry from a factory bridgeport CNC with around 10:1.

He needs a pulley ratio of around 32:1 to get a drive ratio of 10:1

[mactec54]

IF we are all using the same language, the ratio should be expressed in motor revolutions per inch of quill travel

when he had a 4:1 puller ratio he was at like 1.25:1, a far cry from a factory bridgeport CNC with around 10:1.

He needs a pulley ratio of around 32:1 to get a drive ratio of 10:1

There has never been any Bridgeports knee mills with a 10 : 1 ratio I don't know where you get your numbers from, Bridgeport never built/made a machine that had a powered Quill in the way that is being used here, 32 :1 would be ridiculous

[vmax549]

Obviously the Design does work FINE as Flashcut uses it AND they have been around for a very long time now. (;-) IF it did not work I am SURE they would have figured it out by now and changed it(;-)

(;-) TP

[gus]

There has never been any Bridgeports knee mills with a 10 : 1 ratio I don't know where you get your numbers from, Bridgeport never built/made a machine that had a powered Quill in the way that is being used here, 32 :1 would be ridiculous

The late boss and all interact machines use, IIRC 2:1 pulley to pulley, driving a.200" pitch ballscrew. That means the motor turns one revolution of every .1" quill travel, or 10 revolutions for every inch of travel, or 10:1

that is where I get my number from

They never powered a quill this way because it is a stupid way to do it. Wells Index did, it worked poorly, but it as I recall had a significant geared step down, probably less than 10:1 and then machine was much weaker in Z.

It is entirely possible he has a setup problem with his servos, but that does not eliminate the obvious weakness of the setup. Because some hack company does it does not make it correct. I have run machines with a factory Z at up to 300ipm, and they will bore a 3/4 end mill in aluminum pretty quickly, so that is my frame of reference.

There is no reason for the lack of step down as he could run up to 500ipm at the ratios I mention with the servo speed he has. You are also going to lack resolution on the z with a motor mounted encoder

Be correct if you are going to be a dick

[mactec54]

The late boss and all interact machines use, IIRC 2:1 pulley to pulley, driving a.200" pitch ballscrew. That means the motor turns one revolution of every .1" quill travel, or 10 revolutions for every inch of travel, or 10:1

that is where I get my number from

They never powered a quill this way because it is a stupid way to do it. Wells Index did, it worked poorly, but it as I recall had a significant geared step down, probably less than 10:1 and then machine was much weaker in Z.

It is entirely possible he has a setup problem with his servos, but that does not eliminate the obvious weakness of the setup. Because some hack company does it does not make it correct. I have run machines with a factory Z at up to 300ipm, and they will bore a 3/4 end mill in aluminum pretty quickly, so that is my frame of reference.

There is no reason for the lack of step down as he could run up to 500ipm at the ratios I mention with the servo speed he has. You are also going to lack resolution on the z with a motor mounted encoder

Be correct if you are going to be a dick

You are just repeating everything we have already said

As I said Bridgeport never made a machine with a 10 :1 ratio, as you Keep on saying The Boss machines like you said have a 2 : 1 Ratio we are not talking about a Ballscrew advantage because he is not using a Ballscrew, we already talked about this, and what the overall ratio of using a Ballscrew Pus Gearing is, again your post don't help anyone or anything just a repeat of what we have already said

Everyone has already said that this is a bad idea, to drive his Z axes, the way he is, so again you are a little late to the party

If you have something new to add that we have not covered, would be helpful, and we would love to hear

For your information
Up to Boss 5 they had a 1 : 1 Ratio on all axes
After Boss 5 they had a 2 : 1 Ratio on all axes
Standard all had .200 Pitch or 5mm Pitch Ballscrews, depending on year of manufacture, or if someone replaced it with something else

[gus]

and you keep not reading

define your terms the ratio from one pulley to another is unimportant.

the ratio of motor revolutions to the work being done, the movement of the Z axis is important

that ratio of a late boss machine of motor revolutions to z axis movement is and always has been 10 revolution for every 1 inch of movement. That is 10:1

The ratio he is running has apparently been as low as just over 1:1 by this same measure

The ratio on his x and y? well gee, what 5:1 or 10:1 and they work fine

funny how that works

[mactec54]

and you keep not reading

define your terms the ratio from one pulley to another is unimportant.

the ratio of motor revolutions to the work being done, the movement of the Z axis is important

that ratio of a late boss machine of motor revolutions to z axis movement is and always has been 10 revolution for every 1 inch of movement. That is 10:1

The ratio he is running has apparently been as low as just over 1:1 by this same measure

The ratio on his x and y? well gee, what 5:1 or 10:1 and they work fine

funny how that works

The machines you are talking about is not what he has, they also have a 2 :1 Ratio because they had a wimpy motor driving it, and was also to give the machine a .005 resolution, the motor he is using does not compare with the wimpy motor they were using, so can use a much lower Ratio

Repeating the same thing all the time is not a good sign, what you are saying has already been posted many times, we were talking about Timing Pulley Ratios not the overall Ratio, advantage as it is called, when using a ballscrew, we also have suggested what Ratio would work for him, but he is working with what he has, so I'm sure he will post once he gets his Gear box mounted

[vmax549]

You guys need to look a the dynamics of teh Installation. The original motor had a torque output of 2880 oz in at 62 RPM. The Flashcut system has a torque output of 5098 oz in at teh shaft and the OPS setup with the 1.3 kw motor has 6598 oz in . The setup WILL work IF the motor is putting out full rated torque which it obviously is NOT.

HIYA Gus yes I understand want you mean by the 10:1 that is the ONLY way you can look at it across 2 different platforms Ballscrew vs R&P . I own one of the original series 1 CNC Bridgeports that was converted to a 1kw ac servo system SWEET(;-) .

(;-) TP

[rcpilot82]

Well, here is an update. I have the gearbox and pulley system installed and now I have tons of power on the Z. I drilled through 3/8" a36 steel like butter whereas I could barely mark it before. The setup could be faster I know without the pulleys but I have Mach limited to 30ipm and that is more than fast enough for me.

I did realize I have a separate issue on the y axis now. I am hoping this is a setup problem as I noticed it before but thought the e-stop was related to the z axis issues. Check out the video for an explanation.

https://youtu.be/HCIZbsTNDoA

[mactec54]

Well, here is an update. I have the gearbox and pulley system installed and now I have tons of power on the Z. I drilled through 3/8" a36 steel like butter whereas I could barely mark it before. The setup could be faster I know without the pulleys but I have Mach limited to 30ipm and that is more than fast enough for me.

I did realize I have a separate issue on the y axis now. I am hoping this is a setup problem as I noticed it before but thought the e-stop was related to the z axis issues. Check out the video for an explanation.

https://youtu.be/HCIZbsTNDoA

Could be more than one thing

Things to check

Do you have a Licensed copy of Mach 3, and is the License installed correctly

All wiring needs to be checked, Twisted Pairs where ever it can be done

Limit or Home switch wiring

Motor wires have been grounded

Motor wires are not near signal wires

Servo Drive Filters are in Place on the logic Input Power

VFD if you have one has Shielded cable from the Motor to the Drive, and the Shield is Grounded correctly

Things you can do easy, you can increase the Debounce in Mach3 start at 100 and go up until it stops giving you a False Trigger, you will then know you have a noise problem if this solves the false Estop trigger

This won't totally solve the problem,this is just a ban-aid, only good wiring practice can fix a noise problem, if this is a noise problem

[rcpilot82]

Could be more than one thing

Things to check

Do you have a Licensed copy of Mach 3, and is the License installed correctly YES

All wiring needs to be checked, Twisted Pairs where ever it can be done Wiring supplied by DMM, wiring is sleeved so I can not see if it is twisted

Limit or Home switch wiring Yes I have them wired

Motor wires have been grounded yes to a common single point ground

Motor wires are not near signal wires not sure how to avoid this one especially in the control box.

Servo Drive Filters are in Place on the logic Input Power what are these?

VFD if you have one has Shielded cable from the Motor to the Drive, and the Shield is Grounded correctly No VFD used

The trigger is random but when it happens it is repeatable like I showed in the video. I'll try to relocate some of the wiring.

What I don't understand is why applying pressure to the handle makes the error go away....

[mactec54]

Disconnect the limit switches and in Mach 3 just to see if the switches are getting noise, just one at a time

It may be that limit switch is getting some noise, disconnect that switch as well in Mach3 just to see if it is one of the switches

The trigger is random but when it happens it is repeatable like I showed in the video. I'll try to relocate some of the wiring.

What I don't understand is why applying pressure to the handle makes the error go away....

Try the Debounce you can take this up to 2000 or more without any problems, but if this stops the false triggers then you have a noise problem somewhere

It does sound like noise, it seems you have most of the wiring correct, what power supply is being used for the spindle motor

Twisting the wire pairs is done to exposed wires, never twist a Ground wire with power wires though

For the Filters check the Dmm wiring diagram you will see how and what type of filter is needed, but try other things before you go to the filter

The Filter is listed as a Schaffner FN610-0

[mactec54]

rcpilot82

I tried to add more to the last post but it did not save it

You can also disconnect the limit switches one at a time, from the Breakout board just for a test, to see which one is causing the False trigger

[rcpilot82]

rcpilot82

I tried to add more to the last post but it did not save it

You can also disconnect the limit switches one at a time, from the Breakout board just for a test, to see which one is causing the False trigger

If this were a limit switch issue, Mach would be throwing a limit switch error. This is a general e-stop.

I doubt there is an issue with line noise as my Laser is on the same breaker and has no issue. The power supply is 220 vac direct there is no external power supply required for the dyn4 drives.

I will try to set the de-bounce and see if that helps.

Any insight on why applying pressure to the axis makes the error go away?

[mactec54]

If this were a limit switch issue, Mach would be throwing a limit switch error. This is a general e-stop.

I doubt there is an issue with line noise as my Laser is on the same breaker and has no issue. The power supply is 220 vac direct there is no external power supply required for the dyn4 drives.

I will try to set the de-bounce and see if that helps.

Any insight on why applying pressure to the axis makes the error go away?

Your Laser most likely has a built in power filters most do, this in the norm for any laser, so it would not have any problems, your laser was wired at the factory, so everything should be correct

When you put pressure on your axes hand wheel, this will load up the servo motor, which will change the frequency,this must be just be enough to let you do a reset

I was not too concerned with your power to the drives, although you don't have the filters in place, this is what I was asking, what is powering your spindle where are you getting your 3 Phase power for the spindle motor

[hanermo]

Possibly:

Induced noise from something.
Ground all motor cases to the ground wire.

You can try it with a separate, testing only, wire from each motors case to gnd.
This happens with some AC brushless servos (with differential signals, to csmio industrial controller).

Perfectly repeatable, and goes away immedately via grounding the case.

The trigger is random but when it happens it is repeatable like I showed in the video. I'll try to relocate some of the wiring.

What I don't understand is why applying pressure to the handle makes the error go away....