[Dukerc51]

John does your J8 connector plug in off to the side like this? See how on the left of plug you can see two prongs still sticking out?

[Dukerc51]

Had mill on today while I was doing some other stuff. Noticed the monitor went blank. Tried starting machine back up and now the servos aren't turning on and I have some different leds lit up.

[islander261]

Dukerc51

Ok, here are some photos for the spindle working on my machine.

Attachment 293490

Attachment 293492

The first photo is the PLC with the machine on and no other action. Note Inputs D (spindle speed range error) and F (axis servos on) are active as is output F (plc healthy). The next photo is the spindle speed control card. Note that LEDs for output 2 (machine ready) and spindle speed range error are on.

Attachment 293494

Attachment 293496

Attachment 293498

Attachment 293500

The next four photos are when the spindle is running forward. Note that Inputs D, E (spindle running) and F are active. Output 8 is active (spindle on), output F and output 2 (spindle fwd lamp). On the spindle speed control board LEDs for output 2, spindle speed range error and DAC output valid to PLC.

Attachment 293504

Spindle control panel.

John

[islander261]

Dukerc51

J8 looks OK, look at photo from my machine. On both the index (pin 1) mark is on the right hand side.

Attachment 293506

Do you have any description of the PIC pages on the control? I am really puzzled by page 5 as it doesn't seem to do anything on my machine.

Attachment 293508

John

[islander261]

Had mill on today while I was doing some other stuff. Noticed the monitor went blank. Tried starting machine back up and now the servos aren't turning on and I have some different leds lit up.

Dukerc51

OK the two LEDs should be on at the same time. The top right LED is input 8 (axis early limits) and on the right left side is output 0 (axis error lamp). This may be the 28VDC power supply bad. Actually all of the power supplies are on one chassis so the whole thing may be bad.

John

[Dukerc51]

Had my z axis on the lower limits and that's why I lost servos yesterday!! duh,,
Seems like I have a lot more leds lit then on yours.

[Dukerc51]

OK, I found a blown fuse on Input "F", changing the fuse didn't get the led to light. I can't find input "D" at the moment. I did find a loose fuse on led "D6" ,which is also labled "p in", its on the right hand side, sixth one down.

[islander261]

Had my z axis on the lower limits and that's why I lost servos yesterday!! duh,,
Seems like I have a lot more leds lit then on yours.

Dukerc51

Yes, it seems that you have a problem, the spindle speed control board appears to be both sending and receiving at the same time. The spindle speed control board also acts as the interface between the PLC and the control computer.

The 5 relays and LEDs on the left hand side of the board under the power supply are the outputs from the PLC to the control computer. They are wired to the MIO (DC I/O) card in the card rack. Some of the pin numbers called out on the drawing are not correct. I had to trace them out with an ohm meter when fixing the spindle speed control. From left to right they are Output 2 (Machine Ready), Output 3 (Motion Inhibit), Output 4 (Transfer Inhibit), Output 5 (not defined on drawing refer to sequence list if you have it) and Output 6 (same as output 5).

The 12 LEDs on the bottom row are the inputs to the PLC from the control computer. From left to to right they are IN 4 Control Reset (reset PLC), IN 5 Excess Speed (?), IN 6 M Strobe (active when M code being transferred), and IN 7 Speed Strobe (active when speed data being transferred), IN8 Data bit 0, IN 9 Data bit 1, IN A Data bit 2, IN B Data bit 3, IN C Data bit 4, IN D Data bit 5, IN E Data bit 6, and IN F Data bit 7. They are wired to outputs on the MIO (DC I/O) card in the controller card rack. The speed and M code data is sent from the control computer as two hexadecimal digits (base 16).

So what your card is indicating on the outputs is Machine Ready, Transfer Inhibit, and ??. The two undefined outputs are listed as spares on the drawing and you are referred to the "Sequence List" which I don't have for actual function.

The inputs from the computer to the PLC are showing Control Reset (reset to PLC), Speed Strobe (spindle speed data on data bits), a data value of 0x60 ( from right most 4 data bits on card) plus a data value of 0x03 (from left most 4 data bit from card) for total speed command of 0x63.

So the combination of bits doesn't really make sense, I am assuming the machine was in the operating mode (menu on screen) when the photo was taken. I think you may have bad outputs on the MIO card or a wiring problem. Carefully check the connectors on the top of the MIO card for correct mating and location (J6 for control signals and J4 for data bits). Also check J4 on the edge of the control rack for correct mating. Also power up the machine while watching the speed control card and record any changes to the LEDs. I had several bad outputs on my MIO card that caused a lot of trouble with M codes and speed command, the troubling thing is that the failure mode for the outputs on this card is to just not turn on, not stay stuck on.

I have both the System 10 and Delta 10 / Delta 20 Customer Information Manuals in paper form, the Delta 10 / Delta 20 manual is also posted on Scribd as a big PDF.

John

[islander261]

OK, I found a blown fuse on Input "F", changing the fuse didn't get the led to light. I can't find input "D" at the moment. I did find a loose fuse on led "D6" ,which is also labled "p in", its on the right hand side, sixth one down.

Dukerc51

Input F (LED D8) is the axis enable input is is feed from a NO contact on each of the axis contactors wired in series (logical AND). Are all three of the axis contactors energized (closed)? If so wiring problem refer to page two of drawing right hand side.

You found the correct one for Input D (LED D6), it is the second one above Input F on right side of PLC near middle. The LED on the spindle speed control card (near top middle) indicates that this should be on. This looks like wiring problem if range relay is working. If the RANGE plug on the spindle speed control was forced in wrong it may have caused the fuse to blow. This is a very simple connection, +28VDC ( node 200) is connected on one side of the relay (RANGE Pin 1) and the output is RANGE Pin2 that connects via node 183 to Input D (labelled Din) on the PLC.

John

[Dukerc51]

John, do you happen to know the part numbers of your mdi boards in the control? I have two sets and I am wondering if I have the correct set in my control. It's been awhile but I do remember I swapped them at one point and got more leds on the speed board which from what I'm gathering isn't good. I thought my boards were gone at one point so I switched them. I have another set on my bench all tested and on my bench that might be the original boards. Here is a pic of my plc. I got the "in P" on the top left to light after fixing a loose fuse holder.

[islander261]

Dukerc51

My MDI DC/ IO INTERFACE card is Part Number 3737298G, S/N 1912 dated Jan 8, 1986. Please be very careful handling your controller cards and wiring. The plastics on the cards and connectors are getting old and brittle and will break easily.

Ok that is actually Input D, i think it may be a lower case d on the card. This is good because the other end of the wiring, the RANGE indicator on the speed control card is showing on as well.

You still need to figure out Input F (or f). This is the axis enabled input. Find the terminal labelled F in next to the the input module, this is one terminal up from the bottom of the terminal block next to input module F. Now what we actually have differs from the drawing here. Terminal Fin should have wire (node) 197 connected to it. The terminal below it should be labelled C(it is the bottom terminal in the block) and it has wires (node) 150 connected to it, looks like just a jumper on your system but if you trace the jumpers you will eventually get to a wire (node) labelled 150. If the axis are enabled correctly there should be 28VDC between these pins. If the axis are not enabled then or there is a wiring error then 0VDC will be between these terminals. If there is 28VDC between the terminals and LED D8 is not lit then the fuse is blown or the input module is bad or there is a connection problem on the PCB (not likely).

John

John

[Dukerc51]

I have a "input f" on both sides of plc. This pic is on the right hand side. Does this look like I'm in the neighborhood? Thanks

[islander261]

I have a "input f" on both sides of plc. This pic is on the right hand side. Does this look like I'm in the neighborhood? Thanks

Dukerc51

You are looking in the correct place. The PLC I/O boards are very confusing because they made one board to fit both sides by rotating it so it is labelled for both inputs and outputs. Inputs 0 thru 7 are on the top left side of the PLC. Inputs 8 thru F are on the top right side of the PLC. Outputs 0 thru 7 are on the bottom left of the PLC and outputs 8 thru F are on the bottom right of the PLC. I hope this helps.

John

[Dukerc51]

OK, thanks John, I'll go through the previous post and test. I did have a look at my mdi cards. I noticed by changing the last card , "mdi interface card" I lost leds on speed board but machine had estop fault. On the "mdi dc interface card 24in/8 out" on the second conector in from the right hand side, wire #2 was loose. I did my best to reinsert it in the connector and it seems like It's making contact.

[Dukerc51]

I have a "input f" on both sides of plc. This pic is on the right hand side. Does this look like I'm in the neighborhood? Thanks

On this side of plc I can't find a terminal labled "f" . If it check for voltage between the wire 197, in the picture and the terminal below it I get 25 volts? This is when I put one probe of multimeter on 197 and the other on terminal below. If I put one probe on ground and one on 197 I get power, but not on terminal below it.

[Dukerc51]

I can see the 197 wire and how it goes through the servo contactors. It's hard for me to follow along with drawings. I'm gonna try to go to an office store and see if I can print them out larger. I see a "NO" switch on the right hand side of each servo contactor. Starting from the left hand side servo contactor.a wire labled 158 goes in the top. Then 195,196, then 197 goes out to the plc if I am understanding this right.

EDIT** got d8 lit, swapped the input module with another one. One more pc of the puzzle!

Attachment 293560

I am also getting lights on plc when I actuate brake switch to on and auto,

[islander261]

Dukerc51

Progress!

Sorry I didn't look closer before. It appears that the I/O boards on you PLC have been swapped or changed out in the past. The label on the terminal strip is for the other side. aren't these old machines fun?

I find that using the photos in a photo editor or viewer works well because I can zoom in and play with the contrast.

John

[Dukerc51]

Yeah real fun!!! I started labeling terminals etc on machine as I go so I don't forget whats going on!! I am trying to figure out the transfer inhibit signal going to speed board. I also don't know if the brake should be working now that I get a signal on plc. Then there is the issue of when I change my mdi interface board. I lose a bunch of leds on the speed board but get a estop error. Maybe I should put that board back in and try to diagnose estop?? I'm trying to continuity test from the lit leds on speed board back to the plc to see where some of these extra signals go to or come from. Thanks Jared

[islander261]

Duckerc51

Please find attached some notes of mine from when I was getting my machine running.

The good news is the MDI cards are real simple to repair (I had to fix mine).

The brake control should work with no interlocks as far as I know.

I would test all the extra LEDs on the spindle speed control card by having the "correct" MDI card connected as usual. I haven't checked but I think the address is hard wired on the MDI cards so they can't be swapped.
Then power up the machine and control. Note the spindle speed control cards LEDs that are on.
Remove J6 from the top edge of the MDI card (at least this is the correct one on my system). See if CTRL Reset LED (far bottom left on SSCLT card) is off, it should be. Do you have control of spindle and brake? Check J6 pin 4 on MDI card (connector you just removed) is it at about 25VDC?

John

[Dukerc51]

Thanks for the info John Ill do these tests now. I have the brake switch registering on plc now but no brake. I am not getting any power to brake solenoid. Thanks