[Geof]

Is that true north or magnetic north (which moves at a pretty steay rate anyway is I think is somewhere under one of the bays off northern Canada right now).

It moved into Russian Territory a while back.

Martin it is easy to understand orbital motion; all you have to do is stand on the shoulders of Giants.

Steven;

There is a contradiction in these two, yes?

Now, if the earth collected enough dust to double in mass, then conservation of momentum says it's velocity much reduce to half making for a much longer year, but momentum remains constant. So the orbital distance stays the same (no difference in gravity pulling it in or momentum pulling it out).


It's why we can have the earth in it's orbit where it is, jupiter with something like 300 time the mass of the earth way out there and pluto at .002 times the mass of the earth even further out. They just orbit slower based on their distance, not their mass.

[sdantonio]

Dear Steven,

Thanks again.

OK, so if we start exporting "stuff" from the Earth to a position outside the Solar system, what happens to the Earth's orbit round the Sun?

Best wishes,

Martin

It doesn't have to be outside the solar system. As long as it is from outside the earth. If we bump into a NEO (near Earth Object) like an asteroid then it would likely come from the asteroid belt between mars and jupiter. Possibly the remains of a planet there that took a bump from something really really big. If it is a comet then it likely would come from the Kuiper belt, a group of some 200 planetoids and comets of which pluto is a member. Both of which are part of the solar system. The term "outside of the system" is a thermodynamic term and doesn't always mean just what it sounds like it should.

Conservation of momentum says it the earth gets lighter then it has to move faster to keep the momentum the same. If the earth gets heavier then it moves slower. But since the mass of Earth = 5.9742 × 10^24 kilograms, your talking a lot of stuff to make even the smallest noticible change.

[sdantonio]

It moved into Russian Territory a while back.

Martin it is easy to understand orbital motion; all you have to do is stand on the shoulders of Giants.

Steven;

There is a contradiction in these two, yes?

Now, if the earth collected enough dust to double in mass, then conservation of momentum says it's velocity much reduce to half making for a much longer year, but momentum remains constant. So the orbital distance stays the same (no difference in gravity pulling it in or momentum pulling it out).


It's why we can have the earth in it's orbit where it is, jupiter with something like 300 time the mass of the earth way out there and pluto at .002 times the mass of the earth even further out. They just orbit slower based on their distance, not their mass.

Exactly.

I forgot about magnetic north moving into Russian territory till I looked at the map. That's OK, you guy's weren't making much off of it when it was your's anyway. Now if you were charging .001 cents for every compass made, then all of Canada could have already been retired

[martinw]

Dear Steven , Geof, and all,

"Stand on the shoulders of giants"???? It wouldn't make blind bit of intellectual elevation for this dumb pigmy.

Anyway, thanks for trying.

Having to cancel a lucrative second career as a climate change expert is a bit of a b#gger.

Best wishes,


Martin

[Geof]

Dear Steven , Geof, and all,

"Stand on the shoulders of giants"???? It wouldn't make blind bit of intellectual elevation for this dumb pigmy.

Anyway, thanks for trying.

Having to cancel a lucrative second career as a climate change expert is a bit of a b#gger.

Best wishes,


Martin

The "Stand on the Shoulders of Giants: is a reference to Kepler and others. I think it is attributed to Newton; that he sadi he has seen further than others because he stood on the shoulders of giants; Kepler was one of the 'Giants'.

Your 'pigmy' is almost apropo; the phrase has been traced further back than Newton and its original form referred to a dwarf standing on a giant's shoulder.

See the sort of stuff you missed by not being a physicist .

[martinw]

.

See the sort of stuff you missed by not being a physicist .

Dear Geof,

I'm shamefully shrinking even further into matter that has almost negative mass .

Any chance of Orbit Re-Alignment?

Best wishes


Martin

[sdantonio]

"Stand on the shoulders of giants"

Just means to me that when I fall off (not if, but when) I will probably break more things then if I were standing on the shoulders of short people

[fizzissist]

I'm wrong. I'm sorry. Had my head up my butt...so here's my apology.

Changing the earth's mass won't change it's orbit, 'cause of F=GMm/Rsquared. Duh. Astrophysics is not my strong suit.

So there. I admit it.

On other topics: The physical location of the earth's mass changed, not the magnetic.

It was Newton that stood on the shoulders of Kepler and Gallileo.

[Geof]

...It was Newton that stood on the shoulders of Kepler and Gallileo.

And Kepler stood on Brahe and Copernicus so Newton must have been well up in the air. Or have I got it backwards?

Drifted a long way from incinerating corpses haven't we?

[martinw]

And Kepler stood on Brahe and Copernicus so Newton must have been well up in the air. Or have I got it backwards?

Drifted a long way from incinerating corpses haven't we?

Dear Geof,

We most certainly have drifted away from cremation.

As a useless cosmologist, perhaps I may be able to be of help on the rather grim details of going up the chimney.

I looked into the subject when a close member of my family was cremated a couple of years ago, I suppose as some kind of a displacement activity, rather than an entirely morbid one. Please, no notes of sympathy guys.

1) Modern, German and Danish equipment turns you into bone ash at the rate of about 50kg per hour.

2) In case you did not know, the stuff that comes out of the oven is then crushed by rotating steel balls into a reasonably fine powder, allowed to cool,
and placed in a suitably tasteful container.

3) What is the energy input to turn you into about 2 kg of bone ash?

Well, in the UK, about 3000 cubic feet of natural gas.


OK, is it better to be planted in the ground, or blown up the chimney??

(For myself, I going for personal Global Warming)

Best wishes

Martin

[Geof]

Dear Geof,

We most certainly have drifted away from cremation.
OK, is it better to be planted in the ground, or blown up the chimney??

(For myself, I going for personal Global Warming)

Best wishes

Martin

Actually if you really want the ecologically and environmentally correct answer you should be rendered down into synthetic oil and bone meal.

The Ozzie Biologist who was the root cause for this thread is correct when he says humans release about 50kg during combustion. This amount is released whether a human is combusted in a blaze of glory or whether they are just tossed on the compost heap for the bacteria, maggots and worms to have a go at.

What most people don't grasp is that the 50kg of CO2 was actually fixed from the atmosphere via the plants which were consumed by the human during their growth. We all started off pretty close to nothing; actually there is a thing about 'being a gleam in your Father's eye' greater than nine months prior to your date of birth so you can say we all did start off as nothing.

We ate and grew and every single Carbon atom incorporated into our body came from a molecule of Carbon Dioxide that some plant had taken from the atmosphere and turned into plant tissue. Make that announcement at a Cocktail Party sometime and most people will look at you like you are a raving lunatic.

And that is just a small portion of the Carbon from Carbon Dioxide that we have eaten. Every single Carbon Dioxide molecule we exhale is merely replacing a Carbon Dioxide molecule that was taken in by a plant and turned into plant tissue that became our food. It doesn't matter whether it first went into a beef of chicken it still came from the atmosphere and when we exhale we just return it to the atmosphere.

As far as our bodies are concerned most of the Carbon in the food we eat is a fuel; an energy carrier. Plants take solar energy and use it to separate Oxygen from Carbon Dioxide, use the Carbon as part of their structure and boot the Oxygen out as a waste product; the solar energy is stored in the plant in Carbohydrates, also known as starch and sugars. We eat the Carbohydrates, take in Oxygen, combine it with the Carbon from the Carbohydrates and release the energy that was stored by the plants and use this energy to stay alive. While we are growing a small portion of the Carbon is used to make our tissues.

So when we 'pass on' to use the polite euphemism, or 'kick the bucket' and are cremated, or otherwise disposed of, all that happens is the final Carbon atoms, that plants extracted from the atmosphere to make us, are returned to the atmosphere as Carbon Dioxide and the circle is complete. We have had no net effect; our life has been a large resounding zero. Another neat tidbit to bring up at a Cocktail Party.

But a small amount of redemption is at hand! The Carbon in us is as valuable, energy wise, as the Carbon in an equivalent weight of crude oil. That is dry weight on our side; water is not very useful. Energetically we are equivalent to about about 15kg of crude oil.

I read recently in a business magazine that some oil company is teaming up with a food processor to take animal waste and use a high temperature and pressure process turn this waste into fuel oil. I also read sometime back about a company in either Kansas or Kentucky already doing this type of thing on a small scale.

So here is your redemption. A way to make sure your life is not a zero. Humans are animals, biologically speaking...this is not a value judgement. You can volunteer to be rendered into diesel fuel and in doing so remove the need for the consumption of 15kg of fossil fuel; your own ultimate contribution to fight Global Warming.

You expressed a preference for 'personal Global Warming'. This choice is not available to you. You can go out in the blaze of glory or on the trash heap and your contribution is zero; your only choice is being a big nothing or a small tank of diesel fuel.

Oh, I mentioned bone meal. Yes that is not much use for fuel oil but it goes into plant fertilizer so you can have a continuing contribution.

[martinw]

So here is your redemption. A way to make sure your life is not a zero. Humans are animals, biologically speaking...this is not a value judgement. You can volunteer to be rendered into diesel fuel and in doing so remove the need for the consumption of 15kg of fossil fuel; your own ultimate contribution to fight Global Warming.

You expressed a preference for 'personal Global Warming'. This choice is not available to you. You can go out in the blaze of glory or on the trash heap and your contribution is zero; your only choice is being a big nothing or a small tank of diesel fuel.

.

Dear Geof,

Any chance of folding myself, languidly, into my compost heap, as I draw my last breath...???


Ah well, the rats will get me...


Best wishes

Martin

[ImanCarrot]

Incidentaly, every single atom in your body was synthesised in the middle of a star. Since Hydrogen and Helium were the basic building blocks of the universe, everything else had to be made in the nuclear fusion furnace of the inside of a star.

When the star went supernova it scattered all these nice atoms around the place and some of them ended up here to make molecules of stuff that became... us.

Kinda neat that we came from a star

[martinw]

Actually if you really want the ecologically and environmentally correct answer you should be rendered down into synthetic oil and bone meal.


I read recently in a business magazine that some oil company is teaming up with a food processor to take animal waste and use a high temperature and pressure process turn this waste into fuel oil. I also read sometime back about a company in either Kansas or Kentucky already doing this type of thing on a small scale.

So here is your redemption. A way to make sure your life is not a zero. Humans are animals, biologically speaking...this is not a value judgement. You can volunteer to be rendered into diesel fuel and in doing so remove the need for the consumption of 15kg of fossil fuel; your own ultimate contribution to fight Global Warming.

.

Dear Geof,

Your kind words have been a great source of comfort to me.

I read somewhere, not too long ago, that a Scandinavian country that has access to net-loads of fish (Norway maybe) was turning pilchards or herring into oil to be burned in their power stations. Naturally, this did not go down too well with (conventional) conservationists, but I whooped with joy realising that personal salvation was at hand on my very own European door-step.

After a long period of reflection, I decided that it might be unfair to those left behind to have to say farewell, even to me, at the gates of some fishy-stinky facility.

It was a hard decision at the time, but I drive a small car. My neighbour's ridiculous monster would p#ss away my diesel on a single school run.

Bah, humbug.


Best wishes

Martin

[ImanCarrot]

Hehe, my Dead Press (TM lol) might become a viable project then! *files patents by the dozen and applies for multi-million dollar grants* Muahaha I shall take over the planet like Bill Gates! *cackles in a meglomaniacal mad scientist manner*

Anyway as an aside, you can get the carbon of deceased loved ones turned into diamonds (I jest you not)... I would find it weird though, having my girlfriend hanging round my neck: she's a pain in the neck when alive lol. She can't see this board I think *peers about nervously*.

Dun beleive me? here's a link (or you can google "Diamonds from dead people")

http://www.lifegem.com/

Oh, even though I do Diamond Machining, I have nothing to do with this company, I need to use natural diamonds, synthetic ones just don't cut it. Ewww Immagine machining with a diamond made of dead people *shudders* you'd need to give it a name and talk to it *shivers*

[sdantonio]

Martin,

Hey thanks for letting me ramble on about physics. It's so rare that anyone wants to listed when I talk about it. I've been hanging out here for a little over a year and sometimes I try to help out the newbies and answer their questions and the seasoned people then jump on my comments saying stuff like "well,. that's mostly right...but", or "well,. that's partly right...but", or "well,. this time he spelled "CNC" right...but". It's refreshing to talk about something where I have a vague idea of what I'm talking about.

Also, in case your thinking of trying it, talking physics doesn't work as an ice breaker at a party

[Geof]

....Also, in case your thinking of trying it, talking physics doesn't work as an ice breaker at a party

Compared to what I was rambling on about a few posts up Physics is a barnstormer of a topic. People seem to get all squeamish about getting squished into crude oil.

[martinw]

Compared to what I was rambling on about a few posts up Physics is a barnstormer of a topic. People seem to get all squeamish about getting squished into crude oil.

Dear Steven and Geof,

OK, here's some advice to liven up your social skills..... just drop in a few of those cremation facts and you'll be the life and soul of the party.

Best wishes

Martin

[sdantonio]

Martin,

I'll keep that in mind at the next really good party I get invited to

[ImanCarrot]

Thinking about that company that will change your ashes into a diamond... when we die we could get that done then have the diamond broken down into chips and put into a sintered grinding wheel.

That way we could carry on machining even after we're dead