[jhowelb]

Good post hacketet. :cheers:
I wouldn't pay much attention handwanker... He's just a pesky old hack with too much time on his hands. :tired:
My first impression was one of an A$$ hole only to be latter confirmed. Not a choice of terms I would normally choose. But it fits him all too well.

That would be MISTER A$$hole to you, Sir!

I think he just likes to grab onto every appendage he can reach and "wank" it!

Just grin and bear it cause he ain't going away, believe me I've tried to run him off and just like a bulldog, you can't even insult him! LOL!
:wee::wee::wee:

[handlewanker]

When yo'all gonna learn..."sticks and stones"....can't cut it....whatever.

Hacketet is just reviewing the evidence that is already on record in one form or another.

The form preferred to be believed is another matter, by anyone who has a belief in that.

To Hacketet....."is you is or is you ain't a supporter of AGW"?...forget about Global Warming, that's already well established, but man made reasons are the main issue, that's why the Ozelites are now being hit with a Carbon Tax, in spite of the fact that our present minority government, suppported by the Greens of Bob Brown et al, stated categorically, "THERE AIN'T GONNA BE A CARBON TAX ON MY WATCH".....she said it, Julia Gillard did, from her own mouth, nobody else said it for her, it came out of her mouth as an election promise.....and on that basis we voted the Labour Party into power....Tricky Dicky got the shove for being a devious twit and I wonder what the Plebs in Oz will think about that bombshell now.

As usual in politics, it is better to be lied to by someone you support, than by a bitter enemy who you despise intensely.

The worrying part is, although the new Carbon Tax is going to add 34,000 new jobs to the workforce, it really means that the error of making windmills and solar thingies is going to be spending mega dollars to get miniscule dollars in return, adding to the energy bills without being able to go back and being left with natural resources in the ground that could earn export dollars but will now be considered just rubble.

I suppose we could just continue to mine the coal, sell it to China and tax the goods that get imported from those Countries.....but no such luck, the windmills will be made in China or supplied in parts and assembled in OZ on contract to the electricity facility who will pass on the assembly and contract fees and the extra cost of supplying at a reduced output.

The Government whizz kids have worked out that it will be cheaper to get the windmills made overseas using the latest design technology and rent them on a 10 year contract, replacing them after 10 years for the next generation, so much for the 34,000 jobs.

Anyway, they won't be in power come the next election, so all those 34,000 jobs are just pie in the sky or so much wind for the fictitious windmills of their minds.

The chilling bottom line is, these measure to prevent Global Warming will only hasten the prediction of doom that Hacketet has explained will happen in about a thousand years or so, and for my money I'd rather add to the Global Warming effort than reduce it.
Ian.

[jhowelb]

.........

As usual in politics, it is better to be lied to by someone you support, than by a bitter enemy who you despise intensely.

........

So, now you realize the difference between Demicans and Republicrats...........NOTHIN"!

Generic politician = LIAR!

You can vote all the bums out but WHAT do you do about all those bureaucrats in all those offices doing all the dirty work regardless of the will of the voter??

[johyn]

So, now you realize the difference between Demicans and Republicrats...........NOTHIN"!

Generic politician = LIAR!

You can vote all the bums out but WHAT do you do about all those bureaucrats in all those offices doing all the dirty work regardless of the will of the voter??

Now you realize the concept of the tea party... Taxed Enough Already! :drowning:

[handlewanker]

A question from the floor, so be it to answer......King Charles might have said before he copped it big time, "If Oliver Cromwell desires me dead, let Oliver Cromwell come and take my head".

But Ollie Cromwell had better things to do with his time, so a nameless person stepped into the breech and willingly applied the solution to Cromwell's problems, and the people's by Cromwell's reckoning.

So, a DIY approach in this present day and age to political change has been "sanitized" to the degree that the only recourse to change is the ballot box, and ballot counts taken a few times eventually dislose the "real" intentions of the Plebs.

Margaret Thatcher, at one auspicious display of Conservative Party solidarity, was heard to say when asked if her husband supported her idea of British political methods, "I expect he steals pocket money from my purse when the need arises, but he's the best damm dish washer I've ever had, so one can overlook small shortcomings for expediency sake."

Oliver Cromwell would have been so Puritanically dissapointed in that attitude, unlike the Plebs who only vote with a blunt pencil point when the dissillusionment becomes intolerable.
Ian.

[handlewanker]

The Carbon Tax thingy is at fever pitch in OZ, I'm still trying to get my head around the full ramifications of the application.

One thing's for sure, the Gov better get it across more clearly than they're presently doing otherwise THEY will be going down the gurgler with the soap and water.

What's not being indicated, even slightly, is how the tax will affect the common or garden 8am to 4pm working class heroes, those stalwarts of Society that Governments suck up to so tightly when they periodically aspire to take the oath of office and promise, with fingers crossed tightly behind their backs, to serve the people for the good of the people.

OK, it appears we gotta have a carbon tax, to make a clean wholesome environment....but who's saying WE ain't already got a clean wholesome environment, well at least in my neighbourhood we have.....clean water on tap, sewage goes out to the treatment plants to produce recycled water and by products for agriculture etc, the streets are cleaned regularly, rubbish sorted into real rubbish and recyclable products, energy for cooking and heating at the flip of a switch, communications as easy as pushing the buttons, public gardens and trees on nature strips maintained regularly, street lights come on as soon as it gets dark, and all that without chumming up to a Commisar or Dictator's office for permission......commonly called the Capitalist system.....love it.

By all accounts the Carbon Tax is being designed to improve OUR environment, the one WE live in, but I get the sneaking impression the funds are going to be sent overseas to promote 3rd World markets on a far reaching Socialistic move to win the hearts and minds for the World Globalisation, with all trade barriers down and production determined by regional suitability.

I could quite aspire to the notion of World areas maximising their productivity by agreement where suitability of environment is available, which means let China produce the products in exchange for OZ wool and wheat, and US wheat and beef etc.

At least you won't need a magic wand to turn a half ton of wheat into a LCD TV set.

Competition always created losers, and anyone who has to win the bid to get the least money in return for the most products is a loser by any stretch of the imagination.

The time is fast approaching when the World Stock Exchange is fast becoming a requirement of organised living, but before THE NEW WORLD ORDER can come to fruition, the heads of government must go back to school and be re-educated in the requirements of International co-operation as opposed to World confrontation, which means you'd have to get rid of the CIA too, cos they done caused a lot of bad feeling with their wacky foreign policy shenannigins, no place for out of step nutters when all it takes is real diplomacy.

In reality the carbon Tax is just a horse of a different colour, and World leaders are now chanting, "A horse, a horse, our kingdoms for a horse", and anyone who thinks the NEW WORLD ORDER isn't champing at the bit, wait and see, the starters orders are already GREEN FOR GO.
Ian.

[infantry11b]

Back in the day, between say 80 to 84, there was a pbs program here in Los Angeles that taked about the UN coming up with a new redistribution of wealth system. Can you guess how they were going to do it? They were going to create a new asset of value - CARBON CREDITS. The UN would assign limits on the amount of carbon each country would be able to use. Poor countries would be assigned carbon credits above and beyond what they would actually need. Industrialized nations would also get carbon credits, but less than they would actually need, forcing them to BUY excess carbon credits from poor undeveloped nations. This would redistribute evil rich nations wealth to poor oppressed nations [yea right] and the good and always kind and fair UN would do the assigning and of course collect a fee, independant of dues assigned to nations and then having to wait for the money and approval on how it would spend that money.
One of the "benefits" is that the UN could now fund itself, and one of the funding would be a UN Military, and it would not be subject to limitations placed on it for a military force by the nations of the UN.
well it has taken 30+ years to get to this point and now we are there, thanks to a bunch of stupid kids who have been fooled into thinking that humans effect weather and climate.
class dismissed.

The Carbon Tax thingy is at fever pitch in OZ, I'm still trying to get my head around the full ramifications of the application.

One thing's for sure, the Gov better get it across more clearly than they're presently doing otherwise THEY will be going down the gurgler with the soap and water.

What's not being indicated, even slightly, is how the tax will affect the common or garden 8am to 4pm working class heroes, those stalwarts of Society that Governments suck up to so tightly when they periodically aspire to take the oath of office and promise, with fingers crossed tightly behind their backs, to serve the people for the good of the people.

OK, it appears we gotta have a carbon tax, to make a clean wholesome environment....but who's saying WE ain't already got a clean wholesome environment, well at least in my neighbourhood we have.....clean water on tap, sewage goes out to the treatment plants to produce recycled water and by products for agriculture etc, the streets are cleaned regularly, rubbish sorted into real rubbish and recyclable products, energy for cooking and heating at the flip of a switch, communications as easy as pushing the buttons, public gardens and trees on nature strips maintained regularly, street lights come on as soon as it gets dark, and all that without chumming up to a Commisar or Dictator's office for permission......commonly called the Capitalist system.....love it.

By all accounts the Carbon Tax is being designed to improve OUR environment, the one WE live in, but I get the sneaking impression the funds are going to be sent overseas to promote 3rd World markets on a far reaching Socialistic move to win the hearts and minds for the World Globalisation, with all trade barriers down and production determined by regional suitability.

I could quite aspire to the notion of World areas maximising their productivity by agreement where suitability of environment is available, which means let China produce the products in exchange for OZ wool and wheat, and US wheat and beef etc.

At least you won't need a magic wand to turn a half ton of wheat into a LCD TV set.

Competition always created losers, and anyone who has to win the bid to get the least money in return for the most products is a loser by any stretch of the imagination.

The time is fast approaching when the World Stock Exchange is fast becoming a requirement of organised living, but before THE NEW WORLD ORDER can come to fruition, the heads of government must go back to school and be re-educated in the requirements of International co-operation as opposed to World confrontation, which means you'd have to get rid of the CIA too, cos they done caused a lot of bad feeling with their wacky foreign policy shenannigins, no place for out of step nutters when all it takes is real diplomacy.

In reality the carbon Tax is just a horse of a different colour, and World leaders are now chanting, "A horse, a horse, our kingdoms for a horse", and anyone who thinks the NEW WORLD ORDER isn't champing at the bit, wait and see, the starters orders are already GREEN FOR GO.
Ian.

[handlewanker]

I never saw the UN as a "mr 10%", collecting, like a Jackal after the feast, bits and pieces for it's "doggy bag", I saw them more or less as a well meaning local area Aunty Maude, who gets roped in to sort out little Johnnie's et al problems after school time from the local bully boys, armed only with an umbreller and a rolled up newspaper...Lethal weapon 5....LOL.

How about that, Carbon Credits thought about back in the 80's, the originators of that scheme must all be geriatric now and will be hoist by their own petard when it happens...LOL.

The talk I hear in OZ is that the lower paid workers (under $50,000 a year) will be compensated for the extra tax they'll have to afford out of their meagre earnings, so they get to pollute as much as poss without having to be accountable.

That leaves the upper bracket of the tax payers, the middle class, the business owners and employers etc, who once again are "going to the breach dear friends" to save the World as they would like to know it, but who gives a sh!t, they derive their income from the working class, so the working classes are the real savers of the Planet....LOL.

Initially this will be the only way the Plebs can get seperated from their "ill gotten gains", ie, give them what they want to appease them and then take it back double later.

Governments have always used this tactic when dealing with the Unions.

The Unions demand, strike for and get an increase in their wages, but as soon as the dust settles the Government introduces new tax laws and conditions that rake the money back faster than it went out.

Behind the scenes are the evil Alchemists, drawing THEIR ill gotten gains from the Government, who lend their credentials to the "inconvenient truth" that the Climate Change causes are being caused by Mankind, and so Mankind must put it right, using man made weapons of mass destruction......over supply of credit, the decline of currency values and job availability.

One things for sure, the Alchemist are not paid by the Plebs, although the Plebs are their source of income, so the Alchemists see no reason to show allegiences to anyone who disbelieve in their hypotheses, when after all the Plebs are but stepping stones for their career structures up to their ivory towers.

In the end the Carbon Taxes will get used up to shore up rickety 3rd world living practices, and places like Pakistan, with it's huge and highly expensive F16 jet fighter force, will qualify once again for foreign aid when the next catastrophic rains wash away what they rebuilt to replace the last catastrophic rain devestation.

I would suscribe to the notion that you back a winner and shoot losers....based upon experience of economic experience and hindsight, the very best teacher to success.

All eyes are now on Al Gore.....and who would look elseware when there's pickings ripe for the taking at home, and by all accounts Al knows how to "pick" a winner.
Ian.

[infantry11b]

Just wait for them to tell us we have a lifetime carbon credit and when we use it up we have to quit breathing.

I never saw the UN as a "mr 10%", collecting, like a Jackal after the feast, bits and pieces for it's "doggy bag", I saw them more or less as a well meaning local area Aunty Maude, who gets roped in to sort out little Johnnie's et al problems after school time from the local bully boys, armed only with an umbreller and a rolled up newspaper...Lethal weapon 5....LOL.

How about that, Carbon Credits thought about back in the 80's, the originators of that scheme must all be geriatric now and will be hoist by their own petard when it happens...LOL.

The talk I hear in OZ is that the lower paid workers (under $50,000 a year) will be compensated for the extra tax they'll have to afford out of their meagre earnings, so they get to pollute as much as poss without having to be accountable.

That leaves the upper bracket of the tax payers, the middle class, the business owners and employers etc, who once again are "going to the breach dear friends" to save the World as they would like to know it, but who gives a sh!t, they derive their income from the working class, so the working classes are the real savers of the Planet....LOL.

Initially this will be the only way the Plebs can get seperated from their "ill gotten gains", ie, give them what they want to appease them and then take it back double later.

Governments have always used this tactic when dealing with the Unions.

The Unions demand, strike for and get an increase in their wages, but as soon as the dust settles the Government introduces new tax laws and conditions that rake the money back faster than it went out.

Behind the scenes are the evil Alchemists, drawing THEIR ill gotten gains from the Government, who lend their credentials to the "inconvenient truth" that the Climate Change causes are being caused by Mankind, and so Mankind must put it right, using man made weapons of mass destruction......over supply of credit, the decline of currency values and job availability.

One things for sure, the Alchemist are not paid by the Plebs, although the Plebs are their source of income, so the Alchemists see no reason to show allegiences to anyone who disbelieve in their hypotheses, when after all the Plebs are but stepping stones for their career structures up to their ivory towers.

In the end the Carbon Taxes will get used up to shore up rickety 3rd world living practices, and places like Pakistan, with it's huge and highly expensive F16 jet fighter force, will qualify once again for foreign aid when the next catastrophic rains wash away what they rebuilt to replace the last catastrophic rain devestation.

I would suscribe to the notion that you back a winner and shoot losers....based upon experience of economic experience and hindsight, the very best teacher to success.

All eyes are now on Al Gore.....and who would look elseware when there's pickings ripe for the taking at home, and by all accounts Al knows how to "pick" a winner.
Ian.

[handlewanker]

Too true Infantry, but more to the point, we'll be told to stop buying!

Carbon Credits mean just that, when you've used up your credit ration you don't get to buy more carbon rich junk.

It works this way, you as a bona fide tax payer, get a carbon credit card, which is another way to keep control of tax payers and illegals in the system, and with every purchase you make you get your Carbon Credit card swiped at the checkout.

Every item has a Carbon rating, buy the rubbish that has a large Carbon potential and your credit card soon gets emptied, which simply means when it's empty you have to wait till the end of the month to get a new allocation of Carbon Credits, which means you don't get to buy anything that has a carbon rating....food stuff is rated zero for carbon, or if it also gets a carbon rating, you get to pay extra for "borrowing" Carbon Credits from the next month.

When you exceed your Carbon Credit allocation, you will be considered "off limits" to further buying.

Eventually the tax payer becomes "wise" and starts to actually read the back of the product to see how much Carbon Content it carries.....and so another chapter in the days of our life in 2084 has been written.

Taken to it's extreme, the Carbon Tax will go International, so supplying the Tarriff that Governments are reluctant to apply but now will, automatically.

Money will be phased out to be replaced by the NEW WORLD ORDER currency, CCTP, or Carbon Credit Trading Points, and being "in the Black" will now mean you've overspent big time.

A car that formerly cost $30,000 will now be sold at 31K CCTP, the extra 1K CCTP is the Carbon Tax adjustment for the manufacturing Carbon Footprint generated from the manufacturing process, and personal imports of foreign cars that don't meet the Green Standards will no longer be "Grey Market cars", but Black Market cars....LOL.

I've heard of the expression "I've got the blues man", but now with the Greens calling the tune, it'll be changed to "I've got a dark outlook man"...LOL.

One last thing, all cars will now be painted green, the lighter the shade of green the more enviro friendly it is, and the darkest shade, almost black, the worst offender Carbon wise.....it now pays to "show your true colours".....rotflmao.

Climate Change, by 2084, will have come a long way to produce the real regulation that most Governments can only dream of, but in the end the climate will still produce wet Summers and catastrophic Hurricanes on a monotonously regular basis, and the data will just get added to the various models that attempt like, the Lotto addicts, to predict the future, but for that "accuracy" you'd need a crystal ball and a pointed hat with stars on it, and the Alchemists are a bit touchy on that subject....LOL.
Ian.

[fizzissist]

You may not recognize the names of Briffa, McIntyre, Ammann, or Wahl, but you'll recognize Hockey Stick, Denier, and IPCC.

What's important to note with the following excerpt is that what's being discussed is Briffa's defense of a paper in the process of being peer-reviewed with content of a paper not yet peer-reviewed, not yet published.

Catch the problem here??

From a current update at WUWT....

"Two years later, someone does notice. It’s May 24th 2008, Steve McIntyre, climate science puzzle solver, is reading the reviewer comments to chapter 6 of AR4 written in 2006. In the course of reviewing Briffa’s replies to him, McIntyre notes something peculiar. Briffa’s replies, written in 2006, seemed to plagiarize an unpublished paper by Casper Amman and Eugene Wahl published in 2007. That is, in 2006 Briffa was repeating the argument of a paper that was not published until 2007. How could Briffa plagiarize an article that hadn’t been published? Why would he repeat the arguments almost word for word? Who was feeding Briffa his arguments? How was Briffa doing this if all communication with the authors had to be part of the official record?

At the time, in May of 2008, McIntyre assumed that Briffa was getting information from Casper Ammann since Ammann was listed as a contributing author to chapter 6. It did not occur to McIntyre that Wahl was the source of the text. Thanks to the individual who liberated the Climategate emails, we now know that Wahl was the source of that text. The Climategate emails, quoted above, show Briffa and Wahl exchanging emails about the way McIntyre’s arguments should be handled. Confidentially, outside the process of the IPCC which is designed to capture reviewer objections and authors’ responses to those objections. Wahl is brought in by Briffa to defend his own work. And defend it with literature that has not been published yet."

To Serve Mann | Watts Up With That?

[infantry11b]

It is even easire than that. In America we have a social security number - up until a few years ago written on the card was a ntoice that it was not to be used for identification; now everything you get has your social security number on it.
when we all have numbers - and they don't like you anymore, or someone makes a mistake and puts in a wrong number, say a death notice - well you are now dead and none of your little plastic pieces of "money" work anymore and then you really are dead.

it is funny but this is just like 1984 [but the date was about 40 years too early; or farenheit 451 - the most excessive things that sci fi can come up with is nothing compared to reality.

like i always say - life is a ***** and then you die.

Too true Infantry, but more to the point, we'll be told to stop buying!

Carbon Credits mean just that, when you've used up your credit ration you don't get to buy more carbon rich junk.

It works this way, you as a bona fide tax payer, get a carbon credit card, which is another way to keep control of tax payers and illegals in the system, and with every purchase you make you get your Carbon Credit card swiped at the checkout.

[dufas]

The American Spectator : A Modest Proposal to Fix Global Warming



A Modest Proposal to Fix Global Warming

snip============================================== ================
In a brilliant but little-noticed article, Mr. Choi reports that a small nuclear war -- one that employed only 0.03 percent of the world's nuclear arsenal -- would result in reversing earth's long-term warming trend and result in global cooling by 2.25 degrees, according to NASA computer models. It's a wonder that Al Gore didn't think of this a decade ago.

The NASA modelers apparently found that explosions of 100 Hiroshima-sized warheads would produce the desired effect by blasting so much dirt and dust into the atmosphere as to reduce the effect of the sun's rays.

[handlewanker]

Who's the bigger nut case, Charlie Choi for proposing a "small" Nuclear occurence, or Jed Babbin for exclaiming in a moment of great rapture, "In a "brilliant but little noticed article....", are these people real?????.......get off it, they are self generating funny farm cultures.....didn't they learn anything down on the "farm", especially the bit that, "There is no such thing as death, life is but a dream and we are all imaginations of ourselves".

Using that philosophy, Russian Roulette with an SLR is entirely feasible.

I was under the distinct impression that, by the introduction of the Carbon Tax method, Mankind was attempting to "fix" the problems caused by AGW, instead of posing the insane feasibility of ejecting, at random locations, radio active particulate matter into the atmosphere in the notion that it will reverse the problems causing the Global Warming of the Earth.

Now the "solution" is to increase, for a short time, the screening of the Sun's rays to promote a cooling effect......next they'll be drawing up plans for another attempt at promoting Noah's ark for the impending rising of the waters, and some of the names on their list are Pakistan and Queensland in OZ, who enjoyed more water born occurences than was expected.

This is the problem that occurs when you educate people beyond their capacity to process the knowlege the human brain is capable of accessing.

The Human brain is a marvelous piece of flabby meat product, pumped full of bull sh!t, the expectation for rational thought far exceeds the ability for rational assumption to occur.

More and more I am coming to believe that the over prolification of the Human species is done so that the natural selection process can achieve the perfection that many believe is possible, but only if the "rest" are discarded so as to allow the cream of the crop to take up a position that they are able to exploit without the drag of less than efficient bottom feeders.

The Human species is the only species that expends more resources promoting and supporting a weaker output, as opposed to selecting and allowing a reduced but stronger herd.

The Dinosaurs, with their small brains and lacking an opposable thumb, managed to rule the planet for more than 250 million years, whereas Mankind, with their superior interlect, and the ability to walk upright, has created problems that threaten their existence in only 2 million years.

I'm coming to believe in the theory that the Humans are the only real Alians on this planet, having arrived in microbial form in a celestial snowball, thrown off from a long gone Comet......now to be known as The Abominable Snowmen....LOL.....no wonder they fear Global Warming.....LOL.
Ian.

[dufas]

;->

[40fordcoupe]

Eureka! the extinction of the dinosaurs is said to have occurred during the time of the K-T Boundary. This is probably when we arrived in that ball of ice. Ergo man caused the extinction of the dinosaurs.

[infantry11b]

the world without oil.

[handlewanker]

Hmmmm, Infantry, seems pretty peacefull to me, no bombs going off, but perhaps they want to be "liberated" from their "predicament", get modern Western junk food, drive a SUV to get water from the local waterhole, take out a loan on the "equity" they've got in their home, be it ever so humble, on the other hand maybe they'd just settle for another coloured blanket and a handfull of beads, so's they can live the lifestyle they've become accustomed to.
Ian.

[jhowelb]

Hmmmm, Infantry, seems pretty peacefull to me, no bombs going off, but perhaps they want to be "liberated" from their "predicament", get modern Western junk food, drive a SUV to get water from the local waterhole, take out a loan on the "equity" they've got in their home, be it ever so humble, on the other hand maybe they'd just settle for another coloured blanket and a handfull of beads, so's they can live the lifestyle they've become accustomed to.
Ian.

Yep, peaceful!
No food, no water, no shoes, no heat, no cooling, no medicine, no dental care, no education.............

Nothing but misery, back breaking, soul crushing misery that the libs ("Progressives") would wish on all of us (but NOT them!).

Just freaking wonderful!

[widgitmaster]

Why is it that over 10,000 automobiles have been removed from the roads by the
tragedy in Japan, and the price of Gasoline has NOT gone down one cent?