[fizzissist]

...And they predicted this without GCM's??

This is an article from Jan. 1, 1979, in the L.A. Times

1979 : Before The Hockey Team Destroyed Climate Science | Real Science

[dynosor]

GarryJ, one day when the oil and coal DOES run out

Coal will run out after the massive comet strike that removes human need for fuel. Instead of worrying about running out of fuel in 1000 years or the average temperature going up by one degree in the next hundred, worry about what politicians are cooking up in the next 10.

Coal can be substituted for oil and turned into gasoline quite easily: Google SASOL The Germans invented this process a long time ago.

[dynosor]

Hi, I am only new to this site and I was just reading a few posts and had a comment about the carbon tax the government want's to bring in here.
I thought we had one already on power called "G.S.T"

Your GST is spent inside Australia, while carbon taxes would be paid to other countries. What they have in common is politicians and their buddies enriching themselves at your expense. The other problem with a carbon tax is that it seems to give legitimacy to having a global government.

[Garry J]

HW how is AGW related to oil and coal running out?

Are you suggesting that a carbon tax should be imposed because we're running out of the very things they tell us are causing the problem?

Necessity is the mother of invention, not government committees, and subsidising particular industries and/or making them mandatory leads to stagnation, not innovation. Why invest in new technology when your market share is protected by law.

Germany is winding back solar power subsidies because they've pushed up prices beyond expectations and done little or nothing to foster innovation. Something any high school economist could have predicted. Of course those who jumped on the bandwagon will cry foul and so will ensue another quagmire of litigation and compensation as a result of this short sighted policy.

Oil will run out before coal and the motor vehicle industry is already preparing with electric and hybrid vehicles now common place and commercially competitive, and many of these developed, and developing technologies will filter into other areas. All accomplished with minimal government assistance or interference.

[fizzissist]

HW how is AGW related to oil and coal running out?

Welcome to his world of convoluted and self-contridicting logic. :drowning:

[handlewanker]

Wowie, the can of worms is well and truly spilled......I don't know where to begin.

For the record, Carbon Taxation is to prepare for the oncoming shortages due to finite resources dying up....when you can't cook your meal because there ain't any more gas coming through, and you have to have an alternative means, and that means using electricity, but now you have to "invest" in an electric stove, but you don't have the money to buy it, 'cos at the time of plenty gas you didn't stack away some dollars for a rainy day when gas quit big time.....now you gonna eat cold turkey (pun intended).

Some people can't relate to having nothing to do the job with, unless it gets stuck up their proverbial rear ends, then it becomes crystal clear.....pain is a marvelous teacher, or action speaks louder than words.

The relation to AGW is that NOW we are running out of the energy sources, slowly but very surely, but definately so, no argument....so ALTERNATIVE measuire are required whilst we can fund the research and technology, and that is where AGW is a factor.

The World has been conditioned to realise that AGW has to be combatted, so alternative energy methods are required, some not so efficient as the present oil and coal methods, but nevertheless will be energy productive no matter how less efficient.

If we didn't acknowledge the fact that the Human animal is causing the Planet to decline in viability, eg no more oil or coal, maybe not coal but certainly oil and then coal 'cos the coal IS a fossil fuel and we're using it like there's no tomorrow and it'll get used more when the oil drys up total, so hastening the end of the coal boom, then we wouldn't spend so much time and money on stupid research about Climate Change phenomena when any school kid knows the morning you wake up determinines how good the day's gonna get, rain or shine.

Predicting the weather is like predicting Lotto results....can't be done, has never been accurately done...ever, by anyone, and models only tell you what you already know from the past...... about the past.

Alchemists World wide are divided in their views on Climate variation phenomena, and the delving into the entrails of a dead Ram are as good as some of them could ever get.

But I digress, the Carbon Tax is a tax that will be spent NOT in some foreign country to boost up their outdated technology so that they can flog their rubbish to the more techno orientated countries that can do the job just as well, but not so cheap 'cos the more advanced techno countries have higher civilisation attributes and don't live on a dollar a day wages and a bowl of rice or live in mud huts with dirt floors.

The evidence of the direction the Carbon Tax revenue will take was made by the suggestion that the Carbon Tax money should be deposited into a special bank account solely to prevent it being added to the general revenue of Income tax etc and to prevent future politicians getting their sticky fingers in the dough, so ensuring the money for future sustainable energy research and manufacture will be available.....making hay while the sun shines comes to mind, but not to be used to make Ethanol at the expense of food production....that would be good money after bad.

The other Trojan horse is....too many voters making too many wrong decisions to too many vested interest politicians that pander to too many mouths to feed, and unless the nettle is grasped on that issue it won't go away.
Ian.

[dufas]

IFC hopes to tap pensions for climate capital | Reuters

IFC hopes to tap pensions for climate capital

(Reuters) - The World Bank investment arm, the International Finance Corporation, hopes to entice pension funds to inject capital into fighting climate change in the next few months, the global head of its climate business group said.

Pension and sovereign wealth funds control an estimated $28 trillion but less than one percent currently goes into climate-related activity.

The United Nations wants to steer at least $100 billion a year of investment into combating climate change by 2020.

"In an ideal world, 80 percent of the money should come from the private sector," Mohsen Khalil told Reuters in an interview on the sidelines of a carbon conference on Wednesday in Barcelona, Spain.

Pension funds could provide a large source of private capital but have been cautious about investing in the sector.

"The missing link is pension funds and they have to be tapped," Khalil said.

"We have been generally mobilizing investment from commercial banks and equity but we have been working on a couple of financial instruments to make the sector more attractive for pension fund investment," he said, adding that the IFC could reveal more details in the next couple of months.

Pension funds are currently more reluctant than other investors to put money into clean technology and climate change due to the risks of a sometimes changing regulatory environment.

"Of course pension funds are more cautious because people don't want to see their pensions eroding," Khalil said.

TAPPING THE PRIVATE SECTOR

This week the IFC launched a 150 million euro ($215 million) fund to buy carbon credits generated after 2012 to help provide market certainty for project developers under the United Nations Clean Development Mechanism (CDM)

Demand for CDM credits has fallen due to the lack of clarity around market rules when the Kyoto Protocol expires in 2012.

IFC has initially committed 15 million euros to its Post-2012 Carbon Facility, and is getting the rest from some European power utilities and energy companies.

The facility's size is now 90 million euros.

The projects will mainly be in the renewable energy and energy efficiency sectors and will focus on developing countries in Asia, Africa and Latin America, Khalil said.

Although the fund will focus on post-2012 Kyoto credits, Khalil still hopes for agreement on the extension of the Kyoto Protocol.

"But there are alternative means to accompany the Protocol when it is approved and there could be alternative asset classes as well if people are willing to trade those types of carbon credits," he added.

Such alternatives could be Indian renewable energy certificates or credits from a future Chinese carbon market, he said.

The fund forms part of the IFC's overall strategy to make at least 20-25 percent of all its investment and advisory activities climate-friendly by 2013.

"This equals a direct contribution of around $3.5 billion," Khalil said.

[fizzissist]

Interesting post, dufas.

Did you hear about the international carbon market's impending implosion?

The Chicago Carbon Exchange (CCX) just collapsed here, looks like the international exchange could be next. Me? I'd fight tooth and nail to prevent my retirement money going into anything climate related.

ANYTHING.

[fizzissist]

....And why would the IFC want to tap into private moneys??

"...Furthermore, the primary Certified Emission Reductions (CERs) market, which accounts for the bulk of project-based transactions, fell by double digits for a variety of reasons, including lower demand for credits and competition from more predictable assets (Assigned Amount Units and secondary CERs). The CDM market is now at its lowest level since the Kyoto Protocol entered into force in 2005, having dropped by 46% to an estimated US$1.5 billion in new project-based transactions. Similarly, other carbon markets also declined or stayed at their plateau. Nevertheless, cumulatively, primary offset transactions have reached almost US$30 billion since 2005 and are expected to have catalyzed much larger resources, mostly from the private sector. ..."

News & Broadcast - Growth in Global Carbon Market Pauses Amid Uncertainty

I think we're starting to see a big picture...

[dufas]

Interesting post, dufas.

Did you hear about the international carbon market's impending implosion?

The Chicago Carbon Exchange (CCX) just collapsed here, looks like the international exchange could be next. Me? I'd fight tooth and nail to prevent my retirement money going into anything climate related.

ANYTHING.

I knew the Chicago Carbon Exchange went down... Al Gore, Soros and a bunch of other insiders took a bath on that scheme. I have read some opinions that the UN thinks CCX failed because there wasn't enough seed money [read that ponzi scheme seed] to attract the amount of money that the UN wants. The UN's monetary 'hocky stick' hasn't rose to the level they desired, so they want to do anything to anybody to make it so...... I include the UN with the IMF because the UN has pushed the IMF towards this scheme for sometime now and the UN wants a seat at this table....

[dufas]

....And why would the IFC want to tap into private moneys??
I think we're starting to see a big picture...

Maybe the negative experience in Spain's green technology for generating a positive cash flow had a little something to do with the reluctance of investors. If it takes 3/4 million dollars a year to support one medium paid job, I don't think I would invest either.

[dufas]

Remember when the government forced oil companies to use the MTBE additive in gasoline and then found out that it caused cancer and ordered it removed?? It looks like the CFL light bulbs are heading in the same direction.......

Compact Fluorescent (CFL) Bulbs – Can They Be Making Us Sick? | Living in a Chemical Soup: Detox Your House

Compact Fluorescent (CFL) Bulbs – Can They Be Making Us Sick?

Go green. Love the Earth. Save energy. The Canadian government’s banning the old bulbs in 2012. We’re told to replace the incandescent bulbs with the new curly bulbs. We think we’re helping but are they responsible for new health problems? The evidence is now coming back from yet another untested experiment on people’s health and the answer is, “Yes. They are causing health problems”.

For those with Lupus and other conditions where sunlight causes problems, these bulbs are a terrible choice because like the sun, they emit some UV rays. As you can plainly see in the video at the end of this post, people with Lupus and photo sensitivity need to pay attention and make the connection. Compact fluorescent (CFL) bulbs emit UV, albeit at low levels. But is a little bit of a bad thing ok with you if there are no-UV options? Health Canada and the lighting industry will say their levels are safe. But the question is the same one I’ve been asking all along concerning other products like air fresheners. How can you say they safe for everyone when clearly, they’re not.

Will Congress kill us with CFL light bulbs?

Environmentally Friendly CFL Light Bulbs Linked to Cancer

Share 'WARNING ON TOXIC CFLs --- WHERE'S THE EPA?' - My Fernley News

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/md...t_193840_7.pdf

Compact Fluorescent Bulbs are Making People Sick - David Icke's Official Forums

Energy Saving Light Bulbs Dangerous to Your Health and Environment (Part 1)


The site below tells of a few people that had to deal with broken CFL bulbs.....

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55213

[infantry11b]

hey dufas:

read your link and the link from it and followed it out to the 3 page EPA release that deals how to clean up when you break one. Sent the link Cleaning Up a Broken CFL: Detailed Recommendations | Cleanup and Safe Disposal of Compact Fluorescent Light Bulbs | US EPA to my daughter and son in law and grand daughter.

everyone knows that mercury and lead in vapor form is dangerous and heavy metals stay in the body for decades and can cause brain injury and can kill. lots of states have laws for businesses that use flor bulbs, as far as special disposal systems. just wait until the government does that with evey home in America.

Remember when the government forced oil companies to use the MTBE additive in gasoline and then found out that it caused cancer and ordered it removed?? It looks like the CFL light bulbs are heading in the same direction.......

[fizzissist]

Remember when the government forced oil companies to use the MTBE additive in gasoline and then found out that it caused cancer and ordered it removed?? It looks like the CFL light bulbs are heading in the same direction.......


Share 'WARNING ON TOXIC CFLs --- WHERE'S THE EPA?' - My Fernley News

That's funny...Fernley is just down the road from me...and just down the road from them is Fallon, where there's some VERY serious health issues.

There's some other health effects from CFLs, and FL's as well that never get discussed. Not just what they DO emit, but what they don't emit.
What really pisses me off about them is that they cost a lot and don't last as long as advertised most of the time.
One of my cohorts found a large batch imported from China was intentionally manufactured with a defect that caused premature failure.

They've discontinued that particular practice now, but I'm sure they've found other methods of planned obsolescence that insures a steady income stream from premature replacement. And let's be real. How many people actually take care to prevent the CFLs and their mercury from ending up in landfills?

[infantry11b]

oh yes, please save us from ourselves by taxing us and telling us that it will only be spent for our benefit by you and your friends in power.

what a load of crap.

you can begin with keeping your damn hands out of my pocket, and quit telling the rest of us how to live.

Wowie, the can of worms is well and truly spilled......I don't know where to begin.

[fizzissist]

ROFLMAO!!!

hw doesn't know where to begin?????

That's the funniest thing yet.

[handlewanker]

Hmmmmm, I usually get 2 to three years out of my CFl's, and my outside 36watt 4ft flouro's last at least 10 years.....one in the carport is still burning after 15 years, on for 10hrs a night, every night....6PM to 3AM Winter, 9PM to 3AM Summer.

The 6 flouro's I have in the garage have been there for the last 20 years, but don't get used as much as the outside ones.

I've got a 5watt CFL (about 25watt incandescent equiv) in my toilet, 'cos I don't need to read while on the job, and that one has been in for the last 6 years.

I have a note book and note when and where I use the CFL's, and this is because "they" whoever have seen fit to make us use them, so I work the system as it works me.

BTW, any CFL's that don't make the 8,000 hour rate they claim for them and burn out prematurely, I take back for an exchange or refund....just keep your receipt.....never had a problem with exchanging.

Apart from getting the 4 to 5 year life from them, I also get the low power consumption, which is the primary use for them.

I would like to experiment with using LED's in clusters to see if'n they can replace CFL's....but running directly off of the 240volt mains with the necessary DC conversion etc.....it could also probably make good use of low power 12volt storage from PV panels without going to the mains and having to convert from AC to DC etc.

LED's are so cheap now, and if'n you buy them in 100 packs you get them for 1/3 the price....last almost forever, never get hot....no mercury etc.....they dim nicely too.

Can't think what all the fuss is about.....maybe 'ol Dufa's been on the turps again.
Ian.

[handlewanker]

BTW dynosor, re post #7565, you can make anything from anything, oil from coal etc....but who's going to pay the price for the end product?....the Germans DID make it during WW2, but not now, because they HAD to, courtesy the Yanks bombing Ploesti oil refinerys, but in the real world.....we gripe about paying mor'n a dollar for a litre of petrol but now it's up to $1.50 and we queue at the pumps when it comes down to $1.35...LOL.
Ian.

[jhowelb]

Here ya go, echoes from Nazi Germany!!
**************************************

Surely it's time for climate-change deniers to have their opinions forcibly tattooed on their bodies.

Not necessarily on the forehead; I'm a reasonable man. Just something along their arm or across their chest so their grandchildren could say, ''Really?

Read more: The dangers of bone-headed beliefs

[dynosor]

you can make anything from anything, oil from coal etc....but who's going to pay the price for the end product...

SASOL makes petrol from coal and the end-users pay the equivalent of US$1.20 per liter. That is only slightly more than we pay for gasoline made from oil in California right now.