[infantry11b]

by now you should be tired of going into a battle of wits unarmed.
frankly i can't get past all the mistakes you make in just the first 3 lines of you absurd attempt at logic.
On october 26 the ussr commie pigs issue decree of peace, in an attempt to end ww1 participation.
while ww1 is still going on and the soviet scum run things promising everyone everything the white army starts fighting back against the red army. russia is still in ww1 and now is in civil war too.
on march 3, 1918 commis sign a peace with germany - now that ws a bad idea wasn't it - considering what happened later.
the russian civil war is still on going.
it was not until dec 30 1922 that the soviet union actually came into being.
so you see - it was not upset returning ww1 soldiers after the war ended that got this going - so it was not because of returning ww1 soldiers.
having found that many errors in the first few lines of what you think passes for argumet i have decided that any further history lessons will have to be paid for upfront.

Going into history, as far as I'm aware, the Commie empire came into being at the point of a gun....a groundswell of deep resentment.....it was after all the returning Russian soldiers from WW1 that were armed and dangerous that took the oportunity to throw off the yoke of the Tzarist rule and do their own thing, with a little guidence from Comrade Lenin et al, so if they were misled or just too stupid to see where the path was leading them, that's their problem....70 years later they woke up and did their own thing once again.

The whole point is the Third World did not occur because the rich and powerfull denied them the means to better themselves, they were the original type of living standard humanity that evolved to become 1 st World by going the extra mile and becoming affluent by their brains and ingenuity.

You are born naked and dumb, and you'd live that way all your life if'n you didn't ride on the backs of giants to get to where you wanted to go.

It suits some people to live in third world communities, because sophisticated living standards are too much to maintain, even when the money is around to make it so.

You cannot compare 3rd World poverty as being the norm for them.....many communities thrive on very low technology, but when they aspire to live like 1st Worlders the means to sustain the lifestyle is not available, so you get fringe dwellers with tin shacks in urban jungles that spawn malnutrition and crime due mostly to lack of a structured living environment and overpopulation.

BTW, no one forces you to support the Chinese economy, you do it willingly....and if'n you're too stupid to realise that buying from a foreign non benign economic group is better than supporting your own group....open your eyes.....appraise your situation....do something about it.....or just sit on your butt and blame those that you put into power because you're too stupid to help yourselves.....changing the political group won't help 'cos you voted them into office, and they're only here for the beer.

Perhaps Communism was a good thing after all....the torch that burned everything clean to enable regrowth to happen....been happening in Nature since the beginning of time.

BTW again, you are a slave by your own choice, the alternative is the reason you choose to be a slave....it takes courage to turn the corner and look beyond the pail....slavery is a nice warm glow that won't go away and you get used to being warm and cosy and having somone else to think for you, but it is after all your choice to allow 51% of your society to force 49% to do their bidding.
Ian.

[fizzissist]

http://www.dfat.gov.au/geo/fs/chin.pdf

Just to put a little perspective on this discussion.

Pots calling kettles black, if you know what I mean.

[fizzissist]

Australia, the "lucky country", wasn't exactly so lucky for the natives....as recently as 1969..

"The apology is said to concern the so called "Stolen Generations" of Aboriginals that between 1915 and 1969 were taken from their parents and given to white families or institutions to raise. This was a part of the general policy at the time when the government forced assimilation between Aboriginal and white communities. Obviously the assimilation, as in all multicultural societies, has been a complete disaster with high rates of ill health, imprisonment, violence and unemployment in Aboriginal areas."

Australia Apologizes For Enforced Slavery | CORRUPT.org: Conservation & Conservatism

On the plus side, it gave the aboriginals a chance to learn how to live "green" from their holier-than-thou captors.

[fizzissist]

Australia, the "Schmart Country", learns how to tax its citizens to stop Gorebul Warming and create a new tax that's irreversible.

There is a free lunch!! « JoNova: Science, carbon, climate and tax

Yes, these are the guys who sell coal to China, a country with no pollution standards, a country whose CO2 output is skyrocketing...

...You sell coal to the most earth-threatening polluting country in the world to make money, then pass a tax on yourselves to curb earth-threatening pollution.....I'd call that the quintessential definition of cognitive disconnect.

[handlewanker]

C-C-c-c-congnitive disconnect.....gee for a moment Fizzwizz I thought you were describing a sexual manoeuvre.

The Aboriginals don't need to be taught to live Green, they invented the process at the beginning of time, something like 100,000 years or more ago...so they could do it with their eyes closed...they're born experts.

Just to put you in the picture historically....back in the early 1900's there were a few Bible bashing Christian nutters, you know the type, Bible in one hand and breathing fire and brimstone, all gas and gaiters type...yeah those ones...well they got the idea that the part white Aboriginals, not the full blood ones, those that had the white man to blame for their problems....well they thought it would be a good idea to make up for the mistake and bring them up as good Christian God fearing folk and make them wear shoes and clothes and eat their food with a knife and fork and slurp their soup with a shiny silver spoon from china bowls.....so they thought....so after many many years of attempting to forget the mistake, the Gov settled for a "Sorry maam", and the half white aboriginals still can't remember if'n they is aboriginal or White, so there you have it, now we is one happy family.....multicultural.

BTW, the Chinese are their own masters, so who're we to tell them how to run their show...as if'n we would.....we could, but we won't....why side with the Greens and upset one of our biggest markets when the export in coal and iron amongst other things is so important to our economy.

I personally would prefer the Chinese to polute their own atmosphere with the coal dust and smoke residue, but by the time it crosses the sea it's been washed down with the rain so we don't get a bit of it....problem solved....on a clear day you can see for miles.

Incidentally the Carbon Tax has nothing to do with Climate Control, it's called a Carbon Tax 'cos it's energy related.......it's to ensure a clean sustainable energy future, using the cheap energy sources available now for when the cheap energy is no longer cheap....did I explain that clearly enough for youse...it goes like this....you buy when the market is down, and sell when the market is high is good strategy for the share market, same goes for the energy market...R&D and make the alternative energy producers now while you can afford it, then it'll pay you for ever more with a dividend....so simple.

I expect the good 'ol boys back home at the ranch will just poo poo the notion that oil coal and gas is going to fizzle out.....well not for at least a coupla' hundred years or so.

Remember, the more sustainable energy methods you commit to on line production the less oil, coal and gas you have to use yourself.....so more coal for export...more gas for export and less oil to import, but we also can export the oil we currently produce.....so win win win all the way to the bank.....now you know why we're called THE LUCKY COUNTRY....yo'all should try it sometime...it works....I would'n lie to youse mates.

BTW, Infantry, the Tsarists couldn't disarm the returning soldeirs from WW1, 'cos they were highly pissed off at the conditions thay had to fight in, so they were ripe for the slaughter, otherwise who armed them and where did the guns come from?

BTW once again, we also have large and rich deposits of Uranium and as you know Uranium is used for.....making bombs and also a by product...atomic power stations, commonly lumped under the title The Nuke Industry, so it is definately in our favour to ship the stuff to the Chinese who want it badly, (why I coudn't guess with all that coal they also use), but it's better to have a Nuke disaster in someone else's back yard than at home, and just as long as you don't live downwind of the Nuke facility, so win win again...exports are booming.....Bill Gates said..."Never underestimate your assets", and he's a died(dyed?) in the wool Yank.
Ian.

[infantry11b]

your aboriginals are not "green". like every group of animals they live and breed as many as the resources can support and when there is a shift in the weather they die off, usually the young first.
your aboriginals were tribal and had wars with other tribes and if they could have had more kids and taken over other tribes they would have. they did not go on long walks looking for water and food because they liked to - they did it to survive. if they had everything they needed where they were they would not have gone anywhere.
all animals are the same - herd animals, preditors, they breed too many in times of plenty and watch them die in times of want.
you can't possibly believe that we would all be better off in mud huts hoping there is enough rain to grow some dirt crop and watching most of our kids die.
as for the chicoms - they are about their own masters as slaves were their own masters - NOT! you have a large group being enslaved by a smaller but better organized and better armed smaller group. that is only freedom in HG Wells 1984.
you want to go back to hoping the wind blows enough to give you enough electricity to feed the 7 billion people now estimated to be on the planet - not going to work.
dams altered the land but people had water to spare. mud flats were turned into farm land, which altered the land. growing crops did the same thing as did the raising of animals for milk and meat. let me guess - we should all be out running around in loin cloths tossing wood spears at animals that run faster and further than they can, and go back to fighting wild dogs for who can eat a piece of rotting protein.
and just one more historical point - the white russians were only released from the front AFTER the reds signed a separate peace with german and got the hell our of ww1.
and the result of that was millions of soviet citizens murdered by stalin, the occupation of eastern europe and tens of millions murdered by stalin, and it almost brought us to the brink of nuke war.
if we know one thing - trying to force people to believing a certain way only leads to war - and your trying to force people to not just believe but to do without for your "man made global warming god" will eventually lead to the same thing.
people will fight to prevent you from forcing them back into the dark ages of want and deprevation and high infant mortality - because you and your ilk think man is just an infestation on earth and killing off as many of us as possible is the best way to save the world.
that theory works both ways. don't push us.

C-C-c-c-congnitive disconnect.....gee for a moment Fizzwizz I thought you were describing a sexual manoeuvre.

The Aboriginals don't need to be taught to live Green, they invented the process at the beginning of time, something like 100,000 years or more ago...so they could do it with their eyes closed...they're born experts.

Just to put you in the picture historically....back in the early 1900's there were a few Bible bashing Christian nutters, you know the type, Bible in one hand and breathing fire and brimstone, all gas and gaiters type...yeah those ones...well they got the idea that the part white Aboriginals, not the full blood ones, those that had the white man to blame for their problems....well they thought it would be a good idea to make up for the mistake and bring them up as good Christian God fearing folk and make them wear shoes and clothes and eat their food with a knife and fork and slurp their soup with a shiny silver spoon from china bowls.....so they thought....so after many many years of attempting to forget the mistake, the Gov settled for a "Sorry maam", and the half white aboriginals still can't remember if'n they is aboriginal or White, so there you have it, now we is one happy family.....multicultural.

BTW, the Chinese are their own masters, so who're we to tell them how to run their show...as if'n we would.....we could, but we won't....why side with the Greens and upset one of our biggest markets when the export in coal and iron amongst other things is so important to our economy.

I personally would prefer the Chinese to polute their own atmosphere with the coal dust and smoke residue, but by the time it crosses the sea it's been washed down with the rain so we don't get a bit of it....problem solved....on a clear day you can see for miles.

Incidentally the Carbon Tax has nothing to do with Climate Control, it's called a Carbon Tax 'cos it's energy related.......it's to ensure a clean sustainable energy future, using the cheap energy sources available now for when the cheap energy is no longer cheap....did I explain that clearly enough for youse...it goes like this....you buy when the market is down, and sell when the market is high is good strategy for the share market, same goes for the energy market...R&D and make the alternative energy producers now while you can afford it, then it'll pay you for ever more with a dividend....so simple.

I expect the good 'ol boys back home at the ranch will just poo poo the notion that oil coal and gas is going to fizzle out.....well not for at least a coupla' hundred years or so.

Remember, the more sustainable energy methods you commit to on line production the less oil, coal and gas you have to use yourself.....so more coal for export...more gas for export and less oil to import, but we also can export the oil we currently produce.....so win win win all the way to the bank.....now you know why we're called THE LUCKY COUNTRY....yo'all should try it sometime...it works....I would'n lie to youse mates.

BTW, Infantry, the Tsarists couldn't disarm the returning soldeirs from WW1, 'cos they were highly pissed off at the conditions thay had to fight in, so they were ripe for the slaughter, otherwise who armed them and where did the guns come from?

BTW once again, we also have large and rich deposits of Uranium and as you know Uranium is used for.....making bombs and also a by product...atomic power stations, commonly lumped under the title The Nuke Industry, so it is definately in our favour to ship the stuff to the Chinese who want it badly, (why I coudn't guess with all that coal they also use), but it's better to have a Nuke disaster in someone else's back yard than at home, and just as long as you don't live downwind of the Nuke facility, so win win again...exports are booming.....Bill Gates said..."Never underestimate your assets", and he's a died(dyed?) in the wool Yank.
Ian.

[handlewanker]

Huh, Infantry, you don't know the difference between someone living off of the land or living on the land.

The Aboriginals are as Green as you are going to get.....that is they live within their environmental boundaries.....NOT BY TRYING TO CHANGE EVERY ENVIRONMENTAL BOUNDARY......true they were subject to fluctuations in the life they used to lead, but they've been doing it for hundreds of thousands of years, and thriving in the process.

They also didn't have massive population culls like the Western world indulged themselves in, with World Wars...probably intertribal rivalry that resulted in conflict, but nothing on the scale that could be termed war as the Westerners know it.

Your idea of civilisation is if'n it doesn't get stocked in the local supemarket it ain't civilised, and if'n it isn't wrapped in plastic sheeting, it definately is primative.

BTW, since when has Democracy been an ideal form of government.....it hasn't existed in any form recognizable before the last 100 years, and just because it was a dream by some Greeks doesn't mean it works.

The only thing Democracy has given the World is the ability to ensure 49% of the people are subject to the will of 51% of the people....too bad if'n you were on the wrong side....and if'n you thought Communism was bad...try the Monachistic approach whereby the middle agers fought more bloody battles for territorial gain than you've had hot breakfasts.

I think you've been reading the wrong newsprint to come up with the absurb ideas you postulated as the "modern" miracle of the ideal life.

You apparently base your assumptions of civilisation on the fact that the life as you know it is'nt going to go away, so you may be forgiven if'n that was the case, but it WILL go away and pretty soon too by all accounts, especially when the oil starts to bottom out and you can get a handle on the start of that event when the price for petrol (gasoline) starts to go beyond the normal price index for inflation, indicating the scarcity for a non sustainable asset that has been squandered like there's no tomorrow.

Life as you know it was spawned by the free oil reserves found buried in the ground.

The Aboriginals didn't have those problems.....they never had or needed oil to "make their day", but the insistence of the European influence that they get "civilised" is now creating the very problems the Westen World "enjoy", when for hundreds of thousands of years they never had those problems to start with.

If'n Joe Stalin hadn't culled a large amount of his "electorate" during the first part of the 20th Century, then by weight of numbers we might well have been "enjoying" WW3 when Kennedy did his Bay of Pigs thing back in the 70's.....and you must agree...Kennedy had his finger on the trigger then like no other time.

Stop press....the scientists have announced that they have found some caves on the Moon that would be suitable for a Moon base colony....are they kidding....you can get up there but you sure won't be coming back.
Ian.

[Mariss Freimanis]

Kenn6eth78,

I have often wondered about Europe and what happened to it. I was born there but left when I was 2 years old but still. Europe used to be the cradle and dynamo of our civilization since the Renaissance until a little after the turn of the 20th century.

Somehow all of its creative energy that powered a civilization and gave it drive disappeared in a few years, replaced with the grey suffocating bureaucracy we see today. What happened?

The only thing I can come up with is WWI and to a lesser degree WWII drained the European gene pool of its best and brightest. Those wars killed the best and the brightest; what were left were the dull, the cowardly and the infirm to restock the population.

Look at Europe today; the men are of ambiguous gender and their women try to look like men. Between them they have the lowest birth-rates in the world, well below the minimum replacement level of 2.3 children per couple. Politically they are prostrate and indifferent to the foreign worker population in their midst who do procreate with alacrity and refuse to assimilate. Their refusal leads to an insistence of a cultural primacy that is powerfully at odds with the indigenous European culture.

What I see is an old culture dying as it's supplanted with an aggressive new culture.

What I see in a hundred years is people walking about the ruins of a past Western civilization much like Europeans used to walk about the ruins of their past Roman and Greek civilizations. Europe as we know it is dying.

I'm hoping the disease of their hopelessness and decline hasn't terminally infected my country as well. I'm hoping my country can rally and throw off this European wasting infection.

Mariss

[jhowelb]

Someone opened a window and let in some fresh air and sunshine!

Welcome back Mariss!!

[fizzissist]

Someone opened a window and let in some fresh air and sunshine!

Welcome back Mariss!!

....Was just thinking the same thing....:wave:

[handlewanker]

As usual Mariss is talking out of the back of his head with statements like, "What were left were the dull, the cowardly and the infirm to restock the population"....gee Mariss, you think all those boys that went to war in 1938/45 and lost their lives were the only good ones, and the ones that survived were Dull, Cowardly and Inferm?

By your inference the entire population of the USA is now populated by Dull, Cowardly and Infirm people.......so that's why yo'all are in such a pickle....LOL.

Of course the Chinese, not being part of Europe, are not by definition therefore dull or ignorant or infirm or have a reduced gene pool....so that explains the reason why they are thriving and prolificating in such large numbers, and as they are not Muslim they by your definition are the good guys....are you really off the turps Mariss?

Joking aside, Mariss is back on the turps again.....and I get the distinct impression that he's misaligned with the Muslims too.....Reds under the beds previously, now Muslims under the mats...LOL....your shallow thinking attributes your problems to anyone, but not of your own making.....remember there's more Muslims with their finger on the oil pump, so better be nice to them 'cos if'n yo' ain't, there's more AK47's in their hands than you got people, and they know how to make you jump up and down and say "yes sir no sir" if'n they wanted to.

BTW, if'n you wants to walk amongst the ruins of a previously thriving culture without having to wait for a 100 years, go for a stroll in downtown any city USA and you'll be right at home with poverty, joblessness, drug culture, derelict houses and many other aspects that you think is only present in Europe...no place like home.....the New World is starting to get tatty and ragged at the edges, and all in less than 300 years of being.....Europe went back much farther than that to get as you state...."Politically Prostrate"....LOL.
Ian.

[dynosor]

More Solyndra type money give aways? This time, the money has left the country: Car Company Gets U.S. Loan, Builds Cars In Finland - ABC News

[handlewanker]

Huh, with that kind of money give away, yo'all could each have one and not have to worry about the money not being put to good use....charity begins at home....Ah jus' loves those 'lectric cars.....specially the Tesla...but not the price.

The Chinese could make the Tesla for $20,000....'cos they know how.
Ian.

[Larry83301]

Huh, with that kind of money give away, yo'all could each have one and not have to worry about the money not being put to good use....charity begins at home....Ah jus' loves those 'lectric cars.....specially the Tesla...but not the price.

The Chinese could make the Tesla for $20,000....'cos they know how.
Ian.

If the Chinese COULD build a Tesla that sold for $20,000 I buy two!!! Here is why the Chinese don’t do it.
This is from Tesla's website ----
"At the base price of $49,900 (after US Federal Tax Credit), Model S comes equipped with the 160-mile range battery pack. The 230-mile range option is priced at about $10,000 more than the base and the 300-mile option at about $20,000 more than the base."

[dynosor]

Bigger trouble: California adopts extensive 'cap-and-trade' plan - Yahoo! News

"SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — California formally adopted America's most comprehensive so-called "cap-and-trade" system Thursday, an experiment by the world's eighth-largest economy that is designed to provide financial incentives for polluters to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

State officials said they hoped other states would follow suit, calling the plan a "capstone" among the suite of tools California can use to reduce the pollution linked to climate change and cut dependence on foreign oil.

"For half a century every American president has been calling for America to move away from our dependence on foreign oil and become energy independent," said Mary Nichols, chairman of the California Air Resources Board.

"The reason we have not succeeded in addressing our addiction to petroleum is because we did not have the right set of policy tools," Nichols said. "Now we do. Cap-and-trade provides a reward for doing the right thing."

The board voted unanimously to approve the final draft of its plan, a key part of the state's landmark 2006 global warming law, AB 32, which seeks to reduce the emissions to 1990 levels by 2020.

Some businesses regulated under the program argue it will increase the price of electricity for consumers and hurt job creation by raising the cost of doing business in the state. But the program's supporters expect cap-and-trade to spur economic recovery and innovation, by pushing business to invest in clean technologies.

While implementation of some parts of the program will begin in 2012, compliance for power plants and other of the worst polluting facilities actually starts in 2013, with others joining in 2015. In total, the plan will cover 85 percent of California's emissions.

Former Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, who frequently promoted the law, called Thursday's vote a "major milestone" in the fight against climate change."


Clowns to the Left, Jokers to the Right, stuck in the Middle with you:
reservoir dogs (stuck in the middle with you) - YouTube

[jhowelb]

Bigger trouble: California adopts extensive 'cap-and-trade' plan - Yahoo! News

"SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — California formally adopted America's most comprehensive so-called "cap-and-trade" system ..........

Some businesses regulated under the program argue it will increase the price of electricity for consumers and hurt job creation by raising the cost of doing business in the state. But the program's supporters expect cap-and-trade to spur economic recovery and innovation, by pushing business to invest in clean technologies.

In 1980 I moved to Calif. to take advantage of the abundance of manufacturing jobs. By 1990 the "Greenies" had eliminated most of them. Then followed closely by trucking firms even light industry began moving to Oklahoma, Nevada, Arizona or anyplace that wasn't intent on Raping them.

Rather than "pushing business to invest" they are pushing them out of Ca.

Soon we won't even be able to afford electricity to cool our homes in the 115 degree heat we often get, so even retirees will leave!

Leaving nothing but illegals who pay their bills with welfare checks!

Really SMART management, like they exhibit in the "Lucky Country" as is demonstrated by certain obnoxious posters on this thread.

[skippy]

Jeez, I've been away a couple of years and come back and what do I find? HW still doing his best to wind up the Americans with his inflammatory comments and understandably, the Americans slinging a few comments back.
I'm now back in Oz (and loving it by the way) and the main reason I left Europe (Spain) was because the economy went down the tubes. It has been like that for some years and doesn't look like getting better any time soon.

I do consider this county (Oz) lucky as we have largely escaped the GFC, however those at the top are intent on changing that via the new Carbon Tax and the new 40% Mining Tax. I work in a manufacturing business that sells only to the mining sector so the end result will be that: We are manufacturing a product in a country that is already one of the most expensive to manufacture from and now we're are going to make our products a whole bunch dearer thanks to the new taxes. Yep, we are intent of killing the goose that laid the golden egg.

In Australia we profess to be green and do all sorts of things in this direction and yet we think nothing of mowing down huge tracts of native forest each month to make new suburbs for the ever expanding population. Funny how no one ever mentions that increasing population means increased "Carbon" output and certainly no one ever talks about how much "carbon" is used each day/month to bring virtually all our needs by boat from China. Let's face it, as a nation we are hypocrites and as such we should never point the finger at other places for we they do and this means you HW!
P.S. I'm all for a cleaner environment however I'm convinced this is all a scam to transfer wealth from group A to group B.

[jhowelb]

Well, blow me down! You DON'T HAVE to be a lunatic to be from down under after all!!

My, my!

DO stick around, Skippy! It's nice to hear from you.

Jeez, I've been away a couple of years and come back and what do I find? HW still doing his best to wind up the Americans with his inflammatory comments and understandably, the Americans slinging a few comments back.
I'm now back in Oz (and loving it by the way) and the main reason I left Europe (Spain) was because the economy went down the tubes. It has been like that for some years and doesn't look like getting better any time soon.

I do consider this county (Oz) lucky as we have largely escaped the GFC, however those at the top are intent on changing that via the new Carbon Tax and the new 40% Mining Tax. I work in a manufacturing business that sells only to the mining sector so the end result will be that: We are manufacturing a product in a country that is already one of the most expensive to manufacture from and now we're are going to make our products a whole bunch dearer thanks to the new taxes. Yep, we are intent of killing the goose that laid the golden egg.

In Australia we profess to be green and do all sorts of things in this direction and yet we think nothing of mowing down huge tracts of native forest each month to make new suburbs for the ever expanding population. Funny how no one ever mentions that increasing population means increased "Carbon" output and certainly no one ever talks about how much "carbon" is used each day/month to bring virtually all our needs by boat from China. Let's face it, as a nation we are hypocrites and as such we should never point the finger at other places for we they do and this means you HW!
P.S. I'm all for a cleaner environment however I'm convinced this is all a scam to transfer wealth from group A to group B.

[handlewanker]

Skippy, an economic migrant by his own admission....."knowing when to hold them and when to fold them"...good on ya' Skippy, at least you know when and how to act when the situation warrants it.

I had to laugh at JH, moving to Californy for economic reasons....another economic migrant, and you don't have to move inter country or even interstate to be an economic migrant, just worldly wise to know when to get out while the going's good, too bad the apples rotted at the bottom of the barrel.

As a matter of interest I moved inter country 3 times, and only once it was for political reasons, but the other two occasions it was for economic reasons....sometimes you just have to be able to see the writing on the wall, read the wind, grasp the netttle and high tail it when the signs are there, otherwise you grow old owing your soul to a system that doesn't even know you exist.

The old story of if'n you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen holds true, but you have to have the courage to actually suscribe to that dictum.....even a Captain knows when to abandon ship, and only a fool will go down with it.

The climate change policies presently being "admired" by various political bodies will not change the climate one small teensy weensy little bit, but the inept and out of touch politicos that wield power in the background by appealing to the ignorance of the Plebs, do so because they think it is in vogue with their warped concept of living in the "ideal" world, and will only be happy when the cave dwellers once more fight with wooden sticks for cave space.

There is a dividing line in all cases, and I would admit to being dismayed at Native forests being cut down for wood chip to make erzatz furniture products, but at the same time people like Al Gore, who are accused of riding the band wagon for the sake of it as opposed to the ideals it portrays, should be listed for all to identify, and exposed for the pariahs and frauds they are, much the same as the Communists in America were listed and ostracised in the 60's for their idealogy.

I would think that a person who was listed as being a climate change hypothesis supporter and was shown to be only paying lip service to the need for financial iniatives that would reverse the AGW effects, should be exposed for what they are, and in this manner the ****** in the wood pile would not get taken seriously when climate change was talked about.....but who's to lay their reputation on the line and state that AGW is a myth, and who has the unbiased integrity to draw up such a list when the watcher is watching the watcher watching the watcher etc etc, and defamation is a very profitable exercise.

I'm just an economic migrant, and AGW is a science that rivals Ram entrail searching for indications that the climate is going to generate catastrophic results for the future generations of which I will not be a part of, so although I take a mild interest in the figures, they are as meaningless as Ram entrail watching when it comes to predicting the weather....LOL.
Ian.

[handlewanker]

BTW, Larry83301, the Chinese COULD make the Tesla for $20,000, because the base price Tesla you indicated is based on the US scale of labour, and as we all know the Chinese use cheaper than cheap labour, so even $20,000 would be an exorbitant figure, only for export to the USA, and that would be with all the updated bells and whistles the US made model couldn't have because there are not enough mega billionaires that want a car that only goes from A to B in the 160 mile range.

It's a fact that the Petroleum industry would squash ANY move to make the cars in China and flodd the US (and elsewhere too) with a competitor that erodes their life blood.

Face facts, and they are such, you buy cheap Chinese products like machine tools in huge quantities that slaughtered your manufacturing industry 'cos you don't have a large Petroleum industry interest in machine tools to put the pressure on the government to curtail imports of them....they also don't have an interest in the car industry manufacturing, but they do have a very real interest in the driving force for cars, be it petrol, diesel or other oil products.....and that's getting too close to the bone for petroleum profiteers to absorb.
Ian.