[handlewanker]

Hi Rich, in my opinion the complexity of any pressurised system be it air or liquid is something most would not attempt.

Mounting an air cylinder above the head is a job in itself along with the controls and a compressor that cycles on an off frequently.

I'm currently working on a design that I think will be simple, that works with just a cam on top of the draw bar rotated with a small geared motor, and a windscreen wiper motor, that a friend of mine used to power a wheel chair for a disabled child, seems to have the power to do the job.

The motor driving the wheel chair was further geared down 1:5 with a chain drive, and a 12 volt battery (small car type) lasted for hours between charges so a small transformer will suffice for the needs I envisage.

A lot will depend on the number of tool changes for the work, but even a few repetition operations like drilling and tapping can lead to at least 4 different tools every time.

It just depends on how the design turn out, and air has not been completely ruled out.

One thing's for sure, when the mill arrives it will need to have a power draw bar fitted just to get a tool in the spindle.

I also looked at the solenoid that engages the gear on a starter motor Bendix drive, but that does take a few amps to apply the force, so the transformer would need to be quite big on that design unless a small 12 volt battery was used with a charger to keep it charged..

The starter solenoid has a short throw, and is available from any wreckers yard for a few bob....damaged or burnt out starters are almost throw away.........this could be mounted directly above the draw bar and would be simplicity in itself to push the 'bar down.

There probably won't be a need to have the full power of the solenoid for the push, so some form of current limiting using diodes in series would do the trick to apply just enough force without consuming too many amps.

Now, that option is starting to look good on the drawing board, and with less moving parts in the design..... I'm beginning to like it even more.

I think the force available from a solenoid of that size would be the equivalent to a small air cylinder with 500 PSI in it.

A lot would depend on if the solenoid got hot from frequent switching, but I don't think the frequency would exceed once every 5 minutes between too changes, and it has to be held on while the tools are changed, but if current limiting is used the heat may not be a problem.
Ian.

[engnerdan]

I an not looking to joint this back and forth about air vs mechanical. Just throwing out a detail. How is clearing the chips from the spindle nose and incoming tool going to be handled? That is done with an air blast through the spindle on industrial machines.

[RichChant]

I think the force available from a solenoid of that size would be the equivalent to a small air cylinder with 500 PSI in it.

I really don't think it'll have anything like as much force as that, I don't know for sure but from past experience using electromagnets and solenoids you would need something pretty massive for that kind of force. many electromagnets have a holding force of more than that, but the force drops off exponentially as the gap increases.

the motor and cam idea sounds like a good electrical solution.

Rich.

[rustyh]

Hi Everyone,

I also have an order in place with Defeng from quite some time ago. I was just wondering when you guys had actally placed your order and how long you have been waiting so far

[ihavenofish]

I an not looking to joint this back and forth about air vs mechanical. Just throwing out a detail. How is clearing the chips from the spindle nose and incoming tool going to be handled? That is done with an air blast through the spindle on industrial machines.

this spindle has a solid drawbar making an airblast not possible. you just need to regularly wipe clean the taper after each job id say.

[ihavenofish]

Hi Rich, in my opinion the complexity of any pressurised system be it air or liquid is something most would not attempt.

Mounting an air cylinder above the head is a job in itself along with the controls and a compressor that cycles on an off frequently.

I'm currently working on a design that I think will be simple, that works with just a cam on top of the draw bar rotated with a small geared motor, and a windscreen wiper motor, that a friend of mine used to power a wheel chair for a disabled child, seems to have the power to do the job.

The motor driving the wheel chair was further geared down 1:5 with a chain drive, and a 12 volt battery (small car type) lasted for hours between charges so a small transformer will suffice for the needs I envisage.

A lot will depend on the number of tool changes for the work, but even a few repetition operations like drilling and tapping can lead to at least 4 different tools every time.

It just depends on how the design turn out, and air has not been completely ruled out.

One thing's for sure, when the mill arrives it will need to have a power draw bar fitted just to get a tool in the spindle.

I also looked at the solenoid that engages the gear on a starter motor Bendix drive, but that does take a few amps to apply the force, so the transformer would need to be quite big on that design unless a small 12 volt battery was used with a charger to keep it charged..

The starter solenoid has a short throw, and is available from any wreckers yard for a few bob....damaged or burnt out starters are almost throw away.........this could be mounted directly above the draw bar and would be simplicity in itself to push the 'bar down.

There probably won't be a need to have the full power of the solenoid for the push, so some form of current limiting using diodes in series would do the trick to apply just enough force without consuming too many amps.

Now, that option is starting to look good on the drawing board, and with less moving parts in the design..... I'm beginning to like it even more.

I think the force available from a solenoid of that size would be the equivalent to a small air cylinder with 500 PSI in it.

A lot would depend on if the solenoid got hot from frequent switching, but I don't think the frequency would exceed once every 5 minutes between too changes, and it has to be held on while the tools are changed, but if current limiting is used the heat may not be a problem.
Ian.

air cylinder, air line, solenoid, mounting bracket and some hoses. limit switches are a good safety feature too.
that's it in its entirety.

mach3 triggers the solenoid with an output. alternatively you can do it with a button manually.

a 2.5" bore cylinder has 5 square inches. at 90psi that's 440 lbs. 2 stage cylinder with 10mm throw would be all that's needed. probably find that for under $100.

[handlewanker]

Hi, doing the sums and I realise the starter motor solenoid would not put out 500Kg of force to directly move the draw bar........maybe with a bit of lever assistance, but I see more problems from the holding amps creating a gradual heat build up whereas the motor and cam design is relatively simple and can apply a large effort without going into the red zone.

It would take about 1 second for the motor and cam to rotate 180 deg to push the draw bar down and hold it there without any further electrical input, so as I only want to make the device once I think I'll concentrate on the windscreen wiper/cam design and be done with.

It's still quite possible that the windscreen wiper would not exert enough force, so some leverage would have to be applied, and this makes the design simpler again as opposed to driving the cam directly on the draw bar top end.

To drive the cam directly on the draw bar end would require a roller for the cam to ride on or else the friction would soon wear the end away, and that would mean the nut on the draw bar end would have to be modified.

The nut rotates with the spindle, so another complication arises when the roller is not square to the cam.

Using a lever to push the draw bar down not only gives a mechanical advantage to the motor, but simplifies the interface of the lever and draw bar end zone.

I think a lever ratio of 4:1 with the cam driving on the end of the lever would make a compact mechanism, and the cam would just run against a roller embedded in the lever end.

The motor would point upwards with the output shaft in the horizontal plane in line with the spindle drive belt.

A 4:1 ratio lever would also mean the cam has to rotate with a throw of 5mm X 4 = 20mm, but the force required to push the lever would only be about 125Kg. to give the 500Kg push to the draw bar end.

Mounting the mechanism id not a problem and does not require any drilling of mounting holes.

When I optioned the ISO 20 spindle it was noted that the spindle would stick up out of the top of the head casting, and this is where the mechanism will be attached to.

The spindle body is 80mm diam and the power draw bar mechanism will have a clamp bracket to attach to the body diam, making it a simple process to remove the entire spindle and power draw bar mechanism when the high speed spindle is used.

The entire spindle with power draw bar assembly attached can be removed through the top of the head casting when the head clamp bolts are loosened.
Ian.

[hive8]

Hi Everyone,

I also have an order in place with Defeng from quite some time ago. I was just wondering when you guys had actally placed your order and how long you have been waiting so far

Did you have contact with Defeng in the last few days, I been trying to get a hold of him for 10 days now with no reply, I am ready to order 2 x SVM-0

[rustyh]

Did you have contact with Defeng in the last few days, I been trying to get a hold of him for 10 days now with no reply, I am ready to order 2 x SVM-0

Ive had no response from Defeng. Ive had my order inplace since 29th October 2013. Ive had endless promise dates for completion, with the latest being for completion within 25 days (that was told to me on the 25th Feb 2014), so it should be due soon, but he has not responded to any of my emails, and Ive been ignored since the beginning of March

[Doxs]

Im in a similar situation but have not chased him so much. If you have not already ordered, Id recommend that you wait until we see here that machines are actually delivered.

[hive8]

Im in a similar situation but have not chased him so much. If you have not already ordered, Id recommend that you wait until we see here that machines are actually delivered.

Hi i got a reply from him on March 16th. He seems to be having some health problems that are better now since he said he is back at work.

[engnerdan]

I heard from him yesterday about a spindle I inquired about last week from his webpage.

I hope he gets these mills out soon, to everybody who has ordered. I think he has a good product and could do well building and selling these mills if he can pull all the manufacturing details together. I would order one in a heart beat if there was some history and deliveries already made. Instead I am sourcing a bare bones mill frame from somewhere else now and hopefully I can get the spindle from Skyfire if he gets back to me soon with answers to my questions.

[handlewanker]

Hi all, waiting is a nerve wracking game, but when you realise that the product has to be PERFECT, as in not a scratch anywhere, every hair in place and all the wiring in perfect alignment, and all that from a prototype developed in two years, I would think that judging by the retail white goods trade where items get store damaged and sold off cheap because customers want perfect paintwork etc etc, then Defeng is really having a nail biting time hoping just one item doesn't get a scratch on the paint work as it's being packed into the shipping container.

If I had the choice over again to source the market for a mill, any mill..........even if delivery was rock solid promised for tomorrow with overnight delivery, cast iron guaranteed etc etc, I would still do the waiting for this model, as this is the product I want, not just a product I need.

I could have gone for a Tormach and been machining chips knee deep, but a Tormach is not what I want.

Like a big kid in the toy shop, the toy on the top shelf is the one I want, and if I have to wait until it gets taken down, then so be it.

I hope Defeng didn't take it too literally when I said he had to keep his nose to the grindstone....LOL........maybe that's why he wasn't feeling too well.....plastic surgery for a new nose......or.....it could also be a massive hang over from the Chinese New Year celebrations..... LOL......oh well, one can speculate.
Ian.

[rustyh]

I appreciate some people are in a position to wait 5 years if need be for the machine (but then you could calculate the extra cost of another machine across the 5 years wait and they may well have been better getting the expensive machine!), but the issue is people waiting on false delivery promises, Ive had about 5 or 6 different promise dates now, I was told a lead time of 45 days when I placed my order in October 2013. I dont have a problem with the Lead Time slipping, but there has to be a realistic dead line, as most people cant wait x amount of years for the machine they have ordered.

I recall placing an order for a 3D printer that doubled up as a low power miller (was a top spec machine at a very good price) from an American company at the beginning of last year, people were already complaining of waiting months and months for their orders, but I was told a lead time of 8 weeks and so took the risk. 7 months later I still didn't have my machine and subsequently cancelled my order. I still take a peek on the forums about it and to this day, people are still waiting for their orders (some almost 2 years on!)

What worries me further, is that I've tried to contact Defeng a few times and he is blatantly ignoring my emails (as it seems he has responded to others on the forum), it takes 30 mins maybe once every 3 - 4 days to write to all your customers with regular updates, which would help the nerves. Customers should not be ignored.

So my position now is 20 weeks since I placed my order, numerous promise dates with the latest being ready to dispatched last / this week, and now Im getting no response to my emails (since 2nd March), so would you sit here and not worry about it?

[handlewanker]

Hi, What can I say.....I don't think the time frame is going to deteriorate to years of waiting....the product is either worth the wait until the production becomes more stable with realistic lead times etc, or you add this machine(s) to your wish list for a "one day it will be easy to acquire it", but by then the price may well have escalated.......at any rate the proverb "first in best dressed" is one I will adhere to, and once the products start to flow those not on the waiting list will have to wait that bit longer down at the bottom.

One thing's for sure, I would not want to have a product that was pushed through the system just to get it out of the door due to customers clamouring for service.....China is a long way away to have to worry about faulty product problems.

Supposing the castings were not aged or stress relieved and just machined still warm from the mould.....would that worry me.......too right it would, so I have to be patient and rely on the integrity and expertise of the manufacturer, no matter what, the die is cast.

Having come this far, I would not sell my place in the queue to someone lower down in the chain.

When I saw this photo some time back, I just knew we were made for each other....LOL....and with the second one, the kids' inheritance went out the window.

When you're in a race you don't think about how far the winning post is away, so patience is a virtue, you have to be committed.

For those who know their Shakespear I can only add a quote from Henry the 5th" on the eve of the battle of Agincourt.....

"He who has no stomach for this fight, let him begone, and Gentlemen in England abed will think themselves accursed they were not with us, and hold their manhoods cheap when any speaks that fought with us upon St Crispin's day".
Ian.

[jips]

Hi everyone ! Finally register after reading all this thread
And contact skyfire to purchase one of this mill .
the reason why I change my choice from a syil x5 linear is the discovered of skyfire and the sharing from skyfire in this thread and also that this cnc mill is made for cnc since conception
Did anyone have allready received one ? To know some feedback
i' m waiting for an answer to my questions by skyfire but you may help me
i live in france . Cnc lathe machinist for 5 years and for two years know i'm my own boss on cad engineering and prototyping.
my next project is to make high quality knives by mixing forge work and cnc machining
wich one of the skyfire mill would be the better for this job and what upgrade or options.

[jips]

Hi everyone ! Finally register after reading all this thread
And contact skyfire to purchase one of this mill .
the reason why I change my choice from a syil x5 linear is the discovered of skyfire and the sharing from skyfire in this thread and also that this cnc mill is made for cnc since conception
Did anyone have allready received one ? To know some feedback
i' m waiting for an answer to my questions by skyfire but you may help me
i live in france . Cnc lathe machinist for 5 years and for two years know i'm my own boss on cad engineering and prototyping.
my next project is to make high quality knives by mixing forge work and cnc machining
wich one of the skyfire mill would be the better for this job and what upgrade or options.

[wizard]

Unfortunately China is a world away and nobody here has good connections there. Right now it appears that manufacturing is on hold possibly due to illness. Before committing to this vendor I'd wait a bit to see how things pan out.

Hi everyone ! Finally register after reading all this thread
And contact skyfire to purchase one of this mill .
the reason why I change my choice from a syil x5 linear is the discovered of skyfire and the sharing from skyfire in this thread and also that this cnc mill is made for cnc since conception
Did anyone have allready received one ? To know some feedback
i' m waiting for an answer to my questions by skyfire but you may help me
i live in france . Cnc lathe machinist for 5 years and for two years know i'm my own boss on cad engineering and prototyping.
my next project is to make high quality knives by mixing forge work and cnc machining
wich one of the skyfire mill would be the better for this job and what upgrade or options.

[KKamel]

3months in and waiting, i have only orderd ready made goods and none that he needs to machine just get it out the door. Lead time is 15days after recieved payment and were close to 90 days. Of course chinese new year adds on but thats long gone and my other suppliers have no trouble getting goods shipped out.

[ihavenofish]

3months in and waiting, i have only orderd ready made goods and none that he needs to machine just get it out the door. Lead time is 15days after recieved payment and were close to 90 days. Of course chinese new year adds on but thats long gone and my other suppliers have no trouble getting goods shipped out.

it was mentioned above he seems to be ill at the moment. try giving him a polite email - or 2.