[joeavaerage]

Hi,

I will clean them before use.

Why? I've used black (oxide) bolts, screws, nuts etc for my entire life, never had an issue???

Craig

[badhabit]

Why? I've used black (oxide) bolts, screws, nuts etc for my entire life, never had an issue???

I was under the impression that he was going to use the bolts as anchors inside a casting, hence needing a good bonding between the bolt and the grout. This was why i recommended cleaning/rinsing them of any oil. If i was mistaken and the bolts are needed for mounting stuff, then no need to clean them...

/Thomas

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
ah, yes, that would make sense if they are to be bonded into the UPHC.

Craig

[suspension]

Hi all

Looks like all steel plates are little bit larger than the exact dimensions I gave them. Like 3-5mm larger. This will create issues when I try to insert them through the MDF mould.

I checked with a small local manual milling shop and they agreed to size all plates for a reasonable price, but asked me to provide a face mill (with inserts). I will need one of them anyway I have my mill. I was wondering how much milling can be done with a single set of carbide inserts. There are 24 small to large plates with thicknesses ranging from 25 to 50mm. If the cost of inserts is too high, i better change the sizes in my cad model instead.

Any idea?

Thanks
sus

[jackjr-123]

I checked with a small local manual milling shop and they agreed to size all plates for a reasonable price, but asked me to provide a face mill (with inserts).

That's weird. Also how is a face mill useful for milling plate stock to size (unless it's some kind of horizontal mill) ?

[suspension]

That's weird. Also how is a face mill useful for milling plate stock to size (unless it's some kind of horizontal mill) ?

He is planning to keep the plate on side and mill from the top. May not be the best approach but he said that's what h will be doing.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
carbide inserts last a long while.....unless they get broken or chipped. The thing that buggers more inserts than anything else is interrupted cutting, The repeated shock can and will break inserts eventually.
There are tough inserts which accommodate interrupted cutting better than most, but they tend to be 'soft' and therefore wear faster....then there are very hard (long wearing) inserts but chip easily with interrupted cutting.
General purpose inserts are the usual and most economic choice and are a balance of toughness and hardness.

Like most products there are 'good' inserts and then there are 'cheap' inserts. To be fair to the cheap brands, their inserts are good value for money, and while they may not last as long as 'good' inserts they certainly
last long enough to deserve consideration. I myself favour SECO, it is a brand well supported in the New Zealand market. They are not the most expensive but neither are they the cheapest but has always proven reliable performers.

Rust will blunt carbide inserts, and any machinist would appreciate the rust be removed prior to machining, rust particles are abrasive and you would ideally keep them well away from any machine.
Hard inclusions will also bugger up inserts, they can are sometimes found in poor cast iron, not steel.

The last thing is cooling. Good steady flood cooling will result in something like a five fold increase in insert life verses no cooling.

Most machine shops include the cost of tooling into their quote, and an elevated quoted price is the result. The lowest price is achieved when YOU provide the tooling. Either way someone has to pay for it.

Craig

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
if he is milling from the side then there will be considerable interrupted cutting and if the plate has been oxy-acet or plasma cut the cut surfaces will be hard....just a fact of life. I would suspect
tough inserts to be favoured.

Craig

[peteeng]

Hi Sus - I quick wipe over with a rotary wire brush to remove rust is needed. Plus if the sides have been thermally cut, a grind to remove the hard metal is a good idea. Peter

[suspension]

@badhabit

I was wondering how you sized the steel plates. From your pics they have nice finish in all sides. Milled?
The company I bought steel plates offered me to re-size them to my spec for free. But they will be using thermal cutting so not sure if I should go in that path or just get them milled.
Yesterday checked face mills and they are 300USD+ (brand vertex). so need to find another milling shop which does not require me to bring tools.

Thanks
Sus

[joeavaerage]

Hi,

The company I bought steel plates offered me to re-size them to my spec for free. But they will be using thermal cutting so not sure if I should go in that path or just get them milled.

Surprises me a wee bit. I just had a 100mm thick piece of steel oxy-acet cut for a spindle mount. I was advised to allow 2.5mm as a cut allowance. In the event I found that was more than enough. The taper on a cut
(from the top to the bottom, 100mm) is about 1mm. I must say I was impressed, I wanted 'good' but by my reckoning this was 'excellent'. It was still milled, I did it myself on my own machine. Slow but satisfying.

Yesterday checked face mills and they are 300USD+ (brand vertex). so need to find another milling shop which does not require me to bring tools.

If that's $300 delivered, just do it. Don't f***k around! Tooling, workholding and measuring gear will cost you as much as your machine costs over a medium term, say a couple of years. If you need a face mill....
then get a face mill. I personally like Vertex, I have vices and chucks from Vertex, just the best high density SG iron!!!! I need another vice, a self centering one for my fifth axis. Vertex has one, a bit too big and certainly
too expensive for me!

Actually its not too big, just too expensive.....$1150USD:whine:
https://www.penntoolco.com/vertex-4-...ise-3900-2215/

Craig

[suspension]

Hi,



Surprises me a wee bit. I just had a 100mm thick piece of steel oxy-acet cut for a spindle mount. I was advised to allow 2.5mm as a cut allowance. In the event I found that was more than enough. The taper on a cut
(from the top to the bottom, 100mm) is about 1mm. I must say I was impressed, I wanted 'good' but by my reckoning this was 'excellent'. It was still milled, I did it myself on my own machine. Slow but satisfying.



If that's $300 delivered, just do it. Don't f***k around! Tooling, workholding and measuring gear will cost you as much as your machine costs over a medium term, say a couple of years. If you need a face mill....
then get a face mill. I personally like Vertex, I have vices and chucks from Vertex, just the best high density SG iron!!!! I need another vice, a self centering one for my fifth axis. Vertex has one, a bit too big and certainly
too expensive for me!

Actually its not too big, just too expensive.....$1150USD:whine:
https://www.penntoolco.com/vertex-4-...ise-3900-2215/

Craig

Hi Craig

I think you are are right. I doubt with thermal cutting I can expect any improvement over what is already there. So finally ended up giving them to a different milling workshop which will put the tools.

Regarding face mill - The vertex ones looked very heavy and I think they are of great quality. Since I do not need this for now, will evaluate the option later. There are very very cheap options with good ratings in aliexpress as well. Maybe try one of those as the fist step (They cost only around 20USD so nothing to loos). Also found another place with used Japanese face cutters and a 40mm diameter one just cost 80USD.


/Sus

[joeavaerage]

Hi,

Also found another place with used Japanese face cutters and a 40mm diameter one just cost 80USD.

40mm? What size is the arbor?

You first chose the tool interface (BT30,BT40, R8 or whatever) then choose the arbor size. The common sizes are 3/4", which I would expect to be a match for a 40mm face mill. Other sizes are 20mm, 22mm, 1" ,27mm, 1 1/4 ", 32mm, 1 1/2" and 40mm.

There is a large range of sizes!

Craig

[Daniel221]

Thanks for sharing the detail

[joeavaerage]

Hi Sus,
I have bought and put into service a new spindle recently. It is a 3.5kW (S1), 3.4Nm (S1), 10,000rpm rated, 40,000rpm max spindle with HSk 32 tool interface.
Have been accumulating tools for it, a slow and expensive business.

I decided to try a small face mill. The spindle is still really a high speed/low torque spindle, but I thought I'd try a face mill, just to see if 3.4Nm is enough.

I found a nice Kennametal HSK32 to 3/4 inch arbor on Ebay for $125USD and then a Valenite 1.5 inch face mill for $85USD.

Of course once I got them to New Zealand I realised that Valenite used a specialist insert unavailable locally. I found an New Zealand supplier, and an
extremely knowledgeable gent at that, and literally less than 1km from here!. He imported the required Widia inserts for me, cost only $80NZD and took a little over a week.

I've tried it out and it works fine, even on steel. Sure you have to take small depth ((0.1mm-0.2mm) of cut passes or I can stall the spindle, but it makes a nice job.
'
I can, and maybe will get my new 'tool guru' to get some inserts, the same size but finish ground. The extra 'sharpness ' is recommended for aluminum. Given that they are ground after
moulding and sintering they are somewhat more expensive ($150NZD/set of five) than the as moulded/sintered inserts I have now.

So far, I'm thinking a face mill is a valuable addition to my collection.

Craig

[suspension]

Hi Sus,
I have bought and put into service a new spindle recently. It is a 3.5kW (S1), 3.4Nm (S1), 10,000rpm rated, 40,000rpm max spindle with HSk 32 tool interface.
Have been accumulating tools for it, a slow and expensive business.

I decided to try a small face mill. The spindle is still really a high speed/low torque spindle, but I thought I'd try a face mill, just to see if 3.4Nm is enough.

I found a nice Kennametal HSK32 to 3/4 inch arbor on Ebay for $125USD and then a Valenite 1.5 inch face mill for $85USD.

Of course once I got them to New Zealand I realised that Valenite used a specialist insert unavailable locally. I found an New Zealand supplier, and an
extremely knowledgeable gent at that, and literally less than 1km from here!. He imported the required Widia inserts for me, cost only $80NZD and took a little over a week.

I've tried it out and it works fine, even on steel. Sure you have to take small depth ((0.1mm-0.2mm) of cut passes or I can stall the spindle, but it makes a nice job.
'
I can, and maybe will get my new 'tool guru' to get some inserts, the same size but finish ground. The extra 'sharpness ' is recommended for aluminum. Given that they are ground after
moulding and sintering they are somewhat more expensive ($150NZD/set of five) than the as moulded/sintered inserts I have now.

So far, I'm thinking a face mill is a valuable addition to my collection.

Craig

Hi Craig

Thats nice set of tools! I am still way behind although there was some progress recently. Will post an update.
I see that you are using small engraving bits? Do you do PCB isolation milling? I've done that few times, but due to depth issues (Even after probing copper board) it usually takes quite a lot of time for me. The smallest spacing I've handled is .23mm which took few days and wasted around 10 copper boards. This was for a DIY re-flow oven.

- Sus

[suspension]

Hi

Though of posting an update.
I was able to find a CNC routing place in walking distance. He builds speakers and uses the routed to cut face plates, etc. I was happy to help me cut all the panels for a very fair fee. The MDF's boards were with me for almost 6 months and they are not dry anymore, so cuts looked pretty ugly, but still worked fine in the end. Applied three polyurathene varnish coats to seal the surface from water. There are two MDF edges that are still not sealed properly so planning to apply some metal filler there.

Next step is to clean the steel plates and bolts and fix them to the mold. Planning to use paint thinner for that. Lastly need to plan the pouring which needs quite a lot of planning. A sudden unplanned powercut can ruin this whole work on pouring day so planning to have two cement mixtures, one electric and one powered with petrol. (Thinking too much maybe).

The mould is huge btw!

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
looking good. My only comment would be bracing.

Concrete or grout or whatever you are using is immensely heavy and just about any formwork will bow outwards. To late to start thinking about it when you've started pouring....any plan
you have has to be done in advance.

May I suggest that you get some lengths of steel angle or box or something and then tack weld them together 'around' your formwork....sort of like a steel belt. You can do it once the formwork
is complete and that would ensure the 'belt' would be a snug fit. You can knock it off or cut it afterwards.

Craig

[suspension]

Hi,
looking good. My only comment would be bracing.

Concrete or grout or whatever you are using is immensely heavy and just about any formwork will bow outwards. To late to start thinking about it when you've started pouring....any plan
you have has to be done in advance.

May I suggest that you get some lengths of steel angle or box or something and then tack weld them together 'around' your formwork....sort of like a steel belt. You can do it once the formwork
is complete and that would ensure the 'belt' would be a snug fit. You can knock it off or cut it afterwards.

Craig

Hi Craig

based on a rough calculation, each side wall will get close to 200Kg of force. I have added all the MDF bracing to avoid the bow. Maybe I need to strengthen it further.
@badhabit The bracing I added were based on your design. I am wondering if experienced and bending of the panels while pouring? My pour will be around 400mm deep and density is similar to EG i think. (2800).

Thanks
Sus

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
Grout is essentially liquid when pouring and approx three times the density of water. The pressure exerted on the base of the wall will be equivalent to 1.2m head of water (3 x 400mm)
or approximately 1/8th atmospheric pressure or 1.9psi. a 300mm x 50mm section (12 inch x 2 inch or 24 sq inch) the force will be about 45lb. That is a fair old force over even such a small
area.

Craig