[ger21]

Would these work? http://www.surplussales.com/ServoAmps/ServoAmps.html

[damae]

Would these work? http://www.surplussales.com/ServoAmps/ServoAmps.html

Sure looks promising. $275 each, but no need to build a power supply since they take AC power.

[HillBilly]

To the best of my memory the PZ series amps do not have step/dir inputs.

Darek

[JFettig]

that and they put out 200v.

[ger21]

200V is the input. Not sure what the output is.

[rpm mill]

I am very new here but I work with high resolution control systems. So here goes. The Sanyo motor many of you have purchased is a very good motor. To help you understand it better there are two links that will help you
This link will explain the wire color code from the motor leads:
http://www.copleycontrols.com/motion...&P5-Series.pdf

Next to help you understand why you need to use a sinusoidal commutation drive go to the following link start reading on page 16 and remember a linear motor and the rotary sanyo P5 drive almost identically.
http://www.aerotech.com/products/PDF/LMAppGuide.pdf

Here is what I feel is a good comparison, if you fill your car up with half gas and half diesel fuel it will chug, buck and jerk but it will run. When you drive the P5 with a Trapezoidal drive it will jitter, cog, get hot and not put out much power. Don't be mislead we tried for several months to drive these motors with a Trapezoidal drive and many times we thought we had worked through all the problems but some small thing would change like, load, rpm, temperature etc and the problems would start all over again.

I have one question who makes a Sinusoidal Commutated drive that accepts step and direction input for about $300 or less. The one we use is from Bearing Engineers http://www.bearingengineers.com/pdf/avs.pdf it is the AVS 1700 works great but the cost is about $650

[andy55]

I have one question who makes a Sinusoidal Commutated drive that accepts step and direction input for about $300 or less. The one we use is from Bearing Engineers http://www.bearingengineers.com/pdf/avs.pdf it is the AVS 1700 works great but the cost is about $650

If I understand correctly, sinusoidal commutation is done by monitoring both the hall sensors and an encoder. The surpluscenter sanyo's should have both.

Having read some application notes by microchip it seems that it is fairly easy to build a PIC or dsPIC based BLDC trapezoidal controller.

Now - would a dsPIC be fast enough to also do sinusoidal commutation ?
for the device described in the app. notes (dsPIC30F2010) max clock is 40MHz which means instructions are executed at 10 MHz

If we have a 2000cpr motor running at 3000rpm (50rev/s) that would generate ecoder pulses at 100kHz (or maybe 2 or 400 kHz) ? that should still be measurable with the dsPIC running at 10 MHz

so, maybe it would not be that hard to build a dsPIC based sinusoidally commutationg BLDC drive....

comments ?!

I haven't bought any motors yet but if I do I'd like to develop something like this.

Andy

Ps. I'm not sure step/dir from a pc parallell port is such a good idea. You will allways be limited by the fairly low max output frequency...

[ger21]

Ps. I'm not sure step/dir from a pc parallell port is such a good idea. You will allways be limited by the fairly low max output frequency...

In a few months the Gecko G100 and Mach4 will be able to output 4,000,000 steps/second without using the parallel port.

[DerekZahn]

I've been noodling around with building a PID controller to drive some trapezoidal BLDC amplifiers I got off of eBay; with all this talk I think I'll try to expand my little circuit into a full controller. Should keep me amused for a while (don't hold your breath waiting for success, but if I do get something working someday I'll post about it). So far I'm just researching chips and so forth on the internet, which is pretty fun!

I have a feeling that some controllers (like the Rutex ones) will work acceptably well with these motors, but we need to hear from somebody who put them into a machine to know for sure.

> I haven't bought any motors yet

Better hurry; the 1 kW are gone, only 29 of the 400w left, and only 18 of the brakeless 300w. I expect we'll see a lot of them on ebay in the coming months though.

[rpm mill]

We run in Quad so 2K is reading as 8K per rev. Yes a parallel port is for printers, if you want much speed, with high line counts it won't work. Any system is only as good as the weak link. You can and we do run the rotary encoder to get close and then use a 5um linear for final position. This works better than a very expensive ball screw and the rolled screw we use with this setup is about $150 per foot of travel.

[andy55]

In a few months the Gecko G100 and Mach4 will be able to output 4,000,000 steps/second without using the parallel port.

Yes, but that moves the servo position control loop into dedicated hardware and I will not be able to control, adjust or monitor the following error on my pc.

I'm thinking I want an EMC controlled system where most of the intelligence is in the PC.
Jon Elson has developed hardware and EMC compatible software which uses the parallell port in EPP mode which should be fast enough.

[Xerxes]

I'm currently developing a sinusoidal drive for those surplus servos. If I succeed you will know about it

[DerekZahn]

Cool! If I fail to get mine to work (quite likely since I have no clue what I'm doing), maybe I can just buy yours!

Good luck! Keep us posted!

[ger21]

Jon Elson has developed hardware and EMC compatible software which uses the parallell port in EPP mode which should be fast enough.

Jon doesn't make drives for these motors. If you use the Rutex drives, the loop is closed in the Rutex. I don't see how EMC can close it with available hardware?

[andy55]

Jon doesn't make drives for these motors. If you use the Rutex drives, the loop is closed in the Rutex. I don't see how EMC can close it with available hardware?

I mean that using the EPP, as pico-systems does, seems like a cost-effective way of motor control on a pc. Yes it requires hardware to count the encoder pulses and other hardware to drive the servos.

Can you tell me if the Rutex drive is trapezoidal phase or sinewave phase ?
These motors are sold as 'ac' and someone here said the performance is less than great with a trapezoidal drive... so I'm thinking I need a sinewave drive.

[Al_The_Man]

These motors are sold as 'ac' and someone here said the performance is less than great with a trapezoidal drive... so I'm thinking I need a sinewave drive.

Although these motors look like a good deal, price-wise. I backed out from buying at the last minute, what detered me was the the issues of only 4 pole, I am guessing that anything but sinusoidal drive is going to cause a rough low speed issue if run by any other method.
The other thing is the top speed issue, 3000 ~4500 tops. I have Aerotech DC motors that run up to 5 or 6K. So I would normally expect at least 6k from a AC servo.
Also I have run 6 pole and 8 pole motors with passable low speed with trapezoidal drive, not as good as DC however.
It will be interesting to follow the progress.
Al.

[abdmalki]

Can you tell me if the Rutex drive is trapezoidal phase or sinewave phase ?
.

Any comment?

[rpm mill]

This is not a endorsement of there product but the Logosol LS-131-2010 http://www.logosolinc.com/products/ls-131.htm
This drive works very well with the Sanyo motors, it's a nice drive very small and lots of power (sinusoidal). So easy to hook up 3 or 4 axis just plug in the network cables. Comes with free software (LCDN) which will let you get up and running as fast as you can hook up the servo motor leads. The one big rough point is IT WILL NOT ACCEPT STEP AND DIRECTION INPUT. If anyone can find a clone to this one that will accept step and direction input please let me know.

[Evodyne]

This is not a endorsement of there product but the Logosol LS-131-2010 http://www.logosolinc.com/products/ls-131.htm
This drive works very well with the Sanyo motors, it's a nice drive very small and lots of power (sinusoidal). So easy to hook up 3 or 4 axis just plug in the network cables. Comes with free software (LCDN) which will let you get up and running as fast as you can hook up the servo motor leads. The one big rough point is IT WILL NOT ACCEPT STEP AND DIRECTION INPUT. If anyone can find a clone to this one that will accept step and direction input please let me know.

I guess the question anyone who bought these motors would have is "What do these drives cost?" Can you throw out a ballpark value?

Evodyne

[DerekZahn]

Here's a page for a model with step/dir input and a price:

http://clickautomation.com/products/...id=510&cid=172

Edited: oops, reading the specs that model is trapezoidal.