[ksimmons]

There's more to life than money. If the pay is the only thing anyone cares about then you should have looked before you leapt. I'm not absolutely thrilled about all my paychecks but I made the choice to do what I do No One made it for me. I enjoy what I do (normally). Sometimes life sucks sometimes it doesn't. Make the decision what's important and then do it.

[shopprof]

I worked in the trade for 40 years & only made good money when the overtime was plentiful. Machinist wages are low relative to the tools, skills and knowledge that other trades utilize. I have a relative that is an outside pipefitter & he is making over 40 bucks an hour and he doesn't need a toolbox of expensive measuring tools. I never recommended anyone to get in to the machinist trade, it just doesn't pay. One can go and paint houses for the same money. In addition, most machine work now is CNC and is easily outsourced to China and other low wage countries. Most of the guys in my age bracket (over 60) have concluded that the machinist trade is dying in this country.

[joehernandez]

im new to this i join a union and i started at 21.70 top scale is 27.13 right now and i get union benifits but reading some of the reply makes me wanna run away before im stuck here (nuts)

[shopprof]

im new to this i join a union and i started at 21.70 top scale is 27.13 right now and i get union benifits but reading some of the reply makes me wanna run away before im stuck here (nuts)

Running to another job depends on your present skill level. If you are new to the machinist game, that rate is ok. If you have a lot of experience, are a self starter, can do a job without being "babysat", then you are worth more, I'd say, unless you are in a low wage area. If you are in your "comfort zone" and are happy and like what you are doing, then bolting to another profession may not be a good idea. You can make a fairly decent living working as a machinist but you will never be a rich man solely on the trade. As far as your union shop, I would ask you what industry does your shop serve? Auto? Aerospace? Refining? Chemical? Consumer goods? Some of those union shops are and have been going down hill for quite a few years now. That would be your call as to what your future is at your present company.

[joehernandez]

Architectural woodwork and bussiness interiors im with the ubc brotherhood of carpenter

[shopprof]

If the type of work you are doing is custom woodwork not easily outsourced to China, Mexico or other subsistence wage countries, then you are probably in a good spot. With the economy in recession, now may not be a good time to switch jobs. Good Luck.

[joehernandez]

yeah for now as long as i can pay my bills then im going to stay put

[Gos]

At my work since I'm one of the few "Old School" Machinist (meaning I can run everything, not just an operator) I get $32 and some change for a 40 hr. week. I'm in Western Washington State, and in the country. Nothing to do with Aerospace or Boeing. I'm not including our retirement program (2% per year worked, up to 60%) and a very good health insurance package.

Of course the BHO & the democrats may have my retirement spent by the time the market stabilizes...

Gos

[pike88]

We charge $125 per hour for table time. Design, programming etc is billed at $30 per hour. We do a lot if sub work and have our customer send us files prepared to our specs and then charge them for the table time.

My Equipment:
Gerber Edge II www.gspinc.com
Gerber envision
Vortech Router www.vortechcnc.com
Roland Versacamm www.rolanddg.com

My Software:
Corel X3
Vectric Vcarve Pro www.vectric.com
Adobe Illustrator & Photoshop
Mach www.machsupport.com
Gerber Omega

[xychicago]

Hi, I'm new to this, but want to know if any machinist around chicago area, so I might make a few friends in this area. I felt it's quite interesting when learning some machinary work. At least, it would be useful to build self a house or something. Or, might some business opportunity pop out later, as I had different background and resources.

[cncharleydude]

$31 hr. here in Irvine, Calif. Plus overtime if I want it. I do only prototyping for the Engineering dept. (approx. 20 Engineers) and use Mastercam and Solidworks. Even though I am hourly, I don't have to punch a clock or be here at a specific time, but I like to get in before 7am because of traffic. My dad was a tool & die maker for Hughes Aircraft in Fullerton and he owned a La Blonde lathe and a Bridgeport mill as I was growing up so that fueled my desire to get into this trade. I don't think I would recommend my own son to follow though, it does seem like wages are going down for machinist to me, but I could be wrong. I would recommend Mechanical Engineering since they seem in short supply.

[JohnnyTurn]

I have read all the posts on this hot topic. I have to say, it was very interesting. Thanks to all that posted!

I started out at 17. My Dad purchased the shop he was working for when the two partners were at each others throats. He stepped in and offered to take the company over. At the time, the shop was 5,500 Sq. feet packed to the gills with machines. He could not afford all the equipment or the rent of the space. He asked me to come into the business with him. At 17, I wanted other things. But I decided to see what it was like. We started with 1,000 sq feet, and the typical machines a model shop has. Bridgeports, surface grinders, etc.

I apprenticed under a former gagemaker with 65 years experience. Now, this was man who in the 1930's held tolerances within 20 millionths (.00002)
There was also a decent machinist there that had a Vocational machining education and about 3-5 years experience.

My first job. Sandblasting forgings for eight hour days. Since I was always very handy fixing many things as well, I fixed many problems within the shop. I found early on, most machinists are not good with electricity/wiring and general shop repairs. I must have added 10 or so shop lights to the celing. Want to make a grumpy old machinist happy? Install more light in a darkish shop. I still remember their praise!

I apprenticed for 4-5 years under these two men. I learned manual machinng on Bridgeports, basic engine lathe, CNC milling, grinding etc. At about 24 a funny thing happened. I became more skilled at CNC programming and machining than the younger of my two mentors. We had an age difference of about eight years. There was many problems between us. When the shop grew with the purchase of 3 new CNC Hardinge turning centers, The roles were reversed. Kinda like when Vader says to OB1 "When we last met I was but the learner, now I am the master!" He could not take any instruction from me or do anything I said without a grumble. Needless to say, he was let go. I continued to work with the gagemaker fellow for four more years. I learned much from him. Not just technique, but life lessons in this business.

He said to me once. "Since the day I started in this busniess. Machinist's were always the HIGHEST SKILLED and LOWEST PAID people."

And it's true. I will tell you why. How many of your friends know what you really do for work? How many people do you know who can do all the things that you do? What about the attributes of a real modern machinist? You must be part mechanical engineer, part scientist, a crasftman, part black magic wizzard (with all the tricks involved), part computer engineer, brave and cocksure that you can do the job even if you have never made something quite like that before.

Kinda kicks the living SH** out of most eveyones job, right?
BUT YOU ARE STILL NOT GOING TO GET PAID ACCORDINGLY!

Because, if we got paid what we were really worth. Like Doctors and Lawyers and such. Nobody could afford the world we live in. WE MAKE THE WORLD. Everything comes from us. Look at anything in our modern lives. No matter what, it starts with manufacturing. What is the origin? An idea. A drawing. Then a machinist or in some cases a fabricator makes it a reality. Our world is made by us. We are the originators. Our hands and minds make it so.

But, it has to be made cheap. It has to be made in such a way that everyone else makes more money than you. We are the first step and that's why a part we make for $5.00 ends up costing the consumer $85.00. If we got the $85.00 you wouldn't be able to afford a thing.

Machining is the same as farming. The very same. I am stuck in this. I am 33 now, have worked like dog for very little. I am the most skilled person I know. I blow other visiting machinists minds when they see my setups and my ideas in front of them. All I make is quality. Over 500 jobs since 2003 done myself with 0% rejection. And I struggle like a guy digging ditches for a living.

It's sad here. Do you know in JAPAN, machinists are held in the same regard as Doctors? They refer to CNC's as mother machines. They know the importance of people like you and me. The USA has abandonded manufacturing and the push to have young people learn it . And In my opinion, it was the main thing that made us great! It's China's turn now. The 20th century is over.

Ask yourself. What have we really come up with in the last 30 years or so? Ipods? Digital cameras? This country is all based now on service industries. Where are the great minds like Tesla, Edison, Browning and Ford. Men who gave us our lives as we now know it. Where are these men now? I know where. Working some crap job, because in school nothing was ever awakened in them. Because we are taught, to be a success, be a doctor or lawyer. All wealth consumers. Not wealth generators. There in lies the entire problem.


JT

[Geof]

So true, sadly.

[cadcam]

Jonnyturn, So mush of what you say is so true. Also great story.
I should also say thanks for sharing your Life story with all of us.

I have watched the industry change allot over my 20+ years . I started as a Wax Investment mold maker and went on to other types of mold making like plastic and Die Cast. That as we know is hard jobs to be found these days and I feel don't pay as good as they should either.

I get payed allot more money teaching people then in my daily Job as a programmer.
the Main job is the mid 30's and the Collage teaching is over $60. and the on site and 1 on 1 is a $100. Wish there was enough training needed for Cad-cam training to do that full time. it kills me that I can make more teaching then doing. I know the knowledge I have machining should be worth more. I due know that it helps my class's as I do talk about was of machining we using the tools of the software.

Well enough rambling from me. Good posting all.

[karlus]

JT. I am an American living in Morocco for the last 13 years. I started the first private Internet company in the country back in 1995, http://www.mtds.com

A very good friend of mine, Youssef Alibouch, who is Moroccan is from a family that has been in the woodcarving business for a very long time. I am sure you would drool if you saw all of the things they have been making for centuries.

Youssef went to school in San Francisco and studied art and architecture and wants to move the family business forward by investing in CNC. He wants to start big with at least three machines.

The amazing power of the Internet has brought me to you and I would like to explore the possibility of engaging your services to help us with this project. We have the money, the local market, and the IT experience. We would like to know if you would be able to help us with sourcing the equipment, working with us on the business planning, installing, and training.

Morocco is a beautiful country which is not at all about what you are hearing about the Arab world on television. Very civilized with all and more of the world's comforts. Many invented here even ;)

Looking forward to hearing whether or not this is a possibility.

My email address is the first four letters of my username at mtds.com

Karl

[michaeljmorrow]

yeah we ship stuff all over the world but not japan they know there **** how ever china is stil lagging behind in that industry god know they make everything else

[aaron p]

I just turned 24 last week and make $19/hr working for a big oil company here in Houston. We get alot of O/T if we want it and sundays are double pay. I soak it up b/c I know there will be a time where the o/t will run dry. I run a 5axis Mazak E-410 lathe/mill combo. I have 2 years of engine machinist school, but wasnt making much money building high end race engines for my old boss. Went to a bigger mom and pop CNC shop that did all high precision work in exotic materials and the owner taught me CNC milling for 2 years and taught me EZ-Cam programing. I moved to the bigger company b/c of the $5/hr raise I was going to get and much better benifits and work schedule. The problem I see in our industry is the people who are just operators and the people who are true machinist in all aspects. You gotta be part mechanic, part engineer, part designer, and many other things to be a true machinist in my opinion. Must always be thinking outside the box and be open to others opinion and not be close minded. my .02 cents

The part that is in my avatar I made at the mom/pop shop when I was 21. Took a picture out of a chopper magazine, and just created curves with ez-cam so it looked correct.

[charger19690]

I started at $8/hr in a job shop just "Put-n-Taking". Once I learned what was going on and started doing setups and edits, I doubled that in the first 2 years. Now for the last 8-10 years, I have had modest raises and have jumped over the $20 mark by moving around from shop to shop, but pretty much plateau'd. I think that's about the limit for my area of the country, and in N'ern MN, there isn't much for CNC shops.

One disclaimer here, I do not have swiss background, just CAD/CAM, Milling, 4 & 5 Axis Inexable, with a little bit of lathes.

Mike in MN
http://www.cncbasics.com
http://www.cncbasicsforum.com

[acondit]

Too much, if you're the one paying them. Not enough, if you're the one doing the work.

[scadvice]

...I gave myself a draw of 50K a year. That sounds good until you consider that I, and the average shop owner, at that point in his career, works 80 to 90 hrs a week. That works out to about over 12 bucks an hour. Something to think about if you are wanting to have your own a business.:nono:
Steve.