[handlewanker]

Hi Martinw, sorry if I came across a bit rough, but I get a bit short in the tolerance department as I get older.
Having been through the trade from apprentice days over 40 years ago, I tend to forget that some people do have a bit of trouble relating to cutting tools, however, having a drawer full of blunt drills means you aint gonna get better if you don't try.
If you take a large drill, about 25mm diam, and put it to the wheel while it's stationary, you can get the feel of the twist of the wrist motion that after a very short while becomes natural.
You could write a volume about drill grinding but like learning to drive a car it only takes a bit of doing it to get the hang of it.
BTW, I left UK in 1981 for OZ, because your winters were sh##thouse, so I wouldn't dream of hopping back on a 'plane no matter what the incentive.
Take care, machinery has no mercy.
Ian.

[timewarp]

Hi, Can someone please make a nice video showing hand drill grinding?

[Geof]

....BTW, I left UK in 1981 for OZ, because your winters were sh##thouse, so I wouldn't dream of hopping back on a 'plane no matter what the incentive...Ian.

Yeah, the intolerant old so and so prefers to live in a country that is either under a pall of wood smoke, totally out of water (well almost), or getting the **** beat out of it with wind, rain and flooding.

Give me the gentle pit pat of rain on the leaves any day.

[fizzissist]

Hi, Can someone please make a nice video showing hand drill grinding?

I did a Video/Google for drill sharpening and found a few videos...but for some reason I can't get anything to play this morning.... But there might be one there that would show you what's going on.

When I teach people how to do it, I break it down into 3 component motions, and have them do them one at a time on a practice drill...usually around a 5/16 or so...makes it easy to see the results.

First thing to do is position the drill at the correct angles to the wheel. The drill tip should be above the centerline of the grinding wheel, with the tail of the drill angled downwards at 10-15degrees to get you started.

The 3 motions are:
1. the shank of the drill goes straight down
2. the drill gets rotated clockwise (maybe a 1/4 turn..dunno, I never measured it!)
3. the shank gets moved from its starting position slightly from right to left.

Got that? Confused enough?? Do those all at the same time and you should get a fairly decent grind...of course you'll need to do that equally to both sides.

Sound impossible? It ain't. If I can do it, you can do it. It's like walking, chewing gum, and farting at the same time. Not an easy task, but us machinists are always up to a new challenge.

Think about the contact line of the drill surface against the wheel, and the motion needed to give the correct contour.

[Geof]

Hi, Can someone please make a nice video showing hand drill grinding?

Go back up the thread a few pages and you should find my description. I think fizzissist and I are describing the same sort of motion in a different manner.

[martinw]

Hi Martinw, sorry if I came across a bit rough, but I get a bit short in the tolerance department as I get older.

Ian.

Dear Ian,

I know the feeling.

Since I have a drawer full of bits to practice with, I might give it a whirl. After all, the worst that could happen is that I end up with a very large pile of steel dust and some burnt and bloody finger tips. A small price to pay for a new skill...

Best wishes

Martin

[Geof]

Dear Ian,

I know the feeling.

Since I have a drawer full of bits to practice with, I might give it a whirl. After all, the worst that could happen is that I end up with a very large pile of steel dust and some burnt and bloody finger tips. A small price to pay for a new skill...

Best wishes

Martin

That's the spirit! Give the man a Gold Star, or at least a nicely polished bronze one.

[Mcgyver]

Joe, thanks for the offer, if find myself making beer cozies and need help, your the man. btw what did i misspell? and what's a coozy? those sp checkers don't work for possessive vs plural, do they?

what economical means is dependent on the paradigm. there's a sort of an undercurrent, like a put down, in talking about making beer cozies or parts with a chisels...seems like not appreciating the difference in what economical means possibly gets viewed by you as crude techniques an unsophisticated projects on behalf of the home shop. If that's your view it does me little good to worry about changing it.....but it would equally nonsensical for me to take the view that not making your tap shows a lack of skill and enterprise; it would be a comment that had no relevance to the real reasons for the decision.

Management accounting is exactly what you are discussing. Management accounting (nothing to do with financial accounting) is do we build or buy, whats the contribution, throughput etc. Basically the economical measurement and decision making that determines activities in a business is management accounting - do you spend it making product or taps for example. Its perhaps is misnomer as it usually has little to do with accountants, but that is what management accounting is. remind me of the old story about the guy who's amazed to learn he's been speaking prose his entire life.

anyway, I do appreciate that you are a professional and i hope i can learn from you, that's the point right? the rest is just for a lively debate. cheers

[Mazaholic]

Joe,
You don't think the world has enough manufacturing work to let China in on some of it?
Look around..America is full of plants the size of 3 football fields and larger.
Look at all the Japanese autos now made or assembled in America.
Many Japanese CNCs are Made or assembled in America.
Little something that some people don't know..Mazak is one of the largest if not the largest manufacturers of CNCs..If your machine has a horse next to the Mazak emblem,or is part of the emblem...It was made in Kentucky.
I can assure you Joe,there is plenty to go around, and China cant make it all.

[martinw]

That's the spirit! Give the man a Gold Star, or at least a nicely polished bronze one.

Dear Geof,

Thank you for this encouragement, but I suspect that the offer of this ultimate accolade may be somewhat premature.

Who would be prepared to pin any medal to the blood-splattered body of a digit-less failed machinist?

Best wishes,

Martin

[Mazaholic]

I was once told by a mentor..."never trust or listen to a machinist that has fingers missing"
Guess what...my boss has fingers missing..i'm screwed.

[Geof]

Dear Geof,

Thank you for this encouragement, but I suspect that the offer of this ultimate accolade may be somewhat premature.

Who would be prepared to pin any medal to the blood-splattered body of a digit-less failed machinist?

Best wishes,

Martin

I think I might be over there sometime in 2008. I will do better than a medal, do you like Indian food, how about dinner at Veeraswamis?

[martinw]

I think I might be over there sometime in 2008. I will do better than a medal, do you like Indian food, how about dinner at Veeraswamis?

Dear Geof,

It does so happen that I do like a curry, and, if you are over in the land of gentle rainfall, ( scrub that, I really meant catastrophic global warming) I would be delighted to dine.

[Yikes, better buy that grinding wheel and get sharpening..... will I have to pass an exam...?]

Best wishes

Martin

[Geof]

Dear Geof,

It does so happen that I do like a curry, and, if you are over in the land of gentle rainfall, ( scrub that, I really meant catastrophic global warming) I would be delighted to dine.

[Yikes, better buy that grinding wheel and get sharpening..... will I have to pass an exam...?]

Best wishes

Martin

I will trust your word and if you prevaricate will haunt you and your descendants for the rest of eternity.

[martinw]

I will trust your word and if you prevaricate will haunt you and your descendants for the rest of eternity.

Dear Geof,

With a curse like that, I think I will simply buy a new set of drill bits for your inspection and approval...tee hee...

Best wishes

Martin

[handlewanker]

Geof, better take your 'Wellies', Mac and a brolly too, it pees down you know.
I can understand anyone wanting to listen to rain drops on dead leaves, but actually going to a place where it's a normal occurance.
Back in the last century, AD '76, I was camping in South Wales, UK, and the rain started the day before we left Bristol, didn't stop for 3 weeks, no exageration.
I like camping, but when you're on an open farm field with the rain falling at an angle of 45 deg, and the wind tearing the tent pegs about it, takes a bit of getting used to.
That year the yachts in the Fastnet yacht race got a bit of a pounding, many disappeared.
Now global warming I can relate to, 35 deg C is my cup of tea.
They say the Brits don't get suntanned, it's a coating of rust.
Martin,
I don't think watching a video is going to sharpen up your drill grinding antics, well, I suppose it might help, but the moment you take your eye off of the drill to see the video you're going to get your finger stuck in the wheel for sure.
Try taking a drill that has a properly ground point and cover the end with marker, preferably a red marker.
Now after having a few dry runs on a stationary wheel, to get the swing of it, just LIGHTY touch the drill to the running wheel, with the sweep action, so as to just mark it.
At the end of the swing you should see the grind marks on the end face that indicate if you've got the hang of it.
BTW, never use the side of the wheel, only the curved face, this is not negotiable, unless you want your rrr's kicked.
I would also invest in a drill grinding gauge, and this is a MUST.
This will give you the angle on the end which MUST be equal on both sides, and this is also not negotiable.
The other thing you must ensure is that the drill, for whatever purpose it is intended, has the point on centre.
If you grind the drill with the point off centre it will cut oversize, which is a cool way to get a variable hole size when you want it, but only if the drill is going into solid metal, no good for a predrilled hole.
The easiest way to check the centreing is to lay the drill on it's side on a flat surface and rub the horizontal chisel edge against a 90 deg vertical surface marked with chalk or whatever, rotating the drill 180 deg to check the other side.
It should leave a single line which indicates that the point is central.
Don't forget to cool the point of the drill in water - FREQUENTLY -, again not negotiable, otherwise you will need burn therapy, and lots of it.
Last but NOT least, wear grinding goggles, again not negotiable at all.
Old proverb:- Whether you think you can or can't, on either count you will be right.
Ian.

[joecnc1234]

Mcgyver,
I guess I thought you were trying to call me an idiot not an idjit, my bad and I'm not sure coozy or cozies is in the Websters yet. Management accounting my point exactly. I say manufacturing engineering, decide the best way to make a part cost exclusive than go to the bean counters and see if they will buy it(or pay for it). Cheers
As for mazaholic the only reason foreign machines and vehicles are "made" in America is to fight tariffs I have a BMW X5 "made" in south carolina if you read the fine print something like 85% of the thing is made outside of the USA . As far as the football sized plants all over America they are going away faster than anyone can imagine If we don't take care of ourselves the only industry we will have in twenty years will be service to support the Chinese touring Disneyland. Don't let pride get in the way of truth and logic.
My rant for now.
Joe

[martinw]

Dear Ian,

Many, many thanks for your excellent advice.

Best wishes

Martin

[handlewanker]

Hi, who cares who owns the joint, as long as they pay the wages.
At the end of the day, they are relying on you to buy their goods, so it's in their best interests to keep you fat and wealthy so's they can get rich off of you.
Confucius say, man who walk down stairs backward is bloody fool.
Ian.

[joecnc1234]

I guess in the land of OZ you don't have to worry about global economics. Thats what we used to think in America.
Confucius say, man who fart in church sit in own pew
Joe