[Magnum164]

Anyone have any info on this edge finder Tormach Haimer Zero Master - Digital (31936) Tormach has added on their site?

My spindle belt is shredding and I want to replace the belt and keep it on the higher speed setting, but the low speed would now be about 500RPM. At that speed the small edge finder I am using would put scar the edges of the material I am machining, it's done it a few times at the slowest setting of 250RPM.

I am thinking about buying this and using it for my edge finder as well as my T1 indicator.

[Cairns]

I just bought an analog Haimer a couple of months ago, the 3D Taster, and I can't say enough about it. Tormach wasn't selling them at the time and I couldn't find them for sale anywhere on the web so I had to <gasp>call</gasp> a machine tool company out of state and have them drop ship one to me.

The analog version is more expensive but I prefer that so much more than digital. All my measuring tools are analog, I like to see dials move I guess. And it feels more accurate. This one tool does everything (X,Y and Z) very well.

After fumbling about with crappy electronic edge finders with batteries that go dead or short out and tips that weren't concentric the Haimer takes all of the frustration out of the setup process. Especially considering that it works just as well on plastics as it does on metals. I've spent more money on crappy edge finders over the past 5 or 6 years than a Haimer costs and I'm confident it'll be in my tool box for quite some time. My only advice would be to buy a spare tip because you won't know what to do with yourself during the time that one breaks and the time the new one shows up in the mail.

Don't forget to buy a TTS collar to go with it too.

[Magnum164]

I just bought an analog Haimer a couple of months ago, the 3D Taster, and I can't say enough about it. Tormach wasn't selling them at the time and I couldn't find them for sale anywhere on the web so I had to <gasp>call</gasp> a machine tool company out of state and have them drop ship one to me.

The analog version is more expensive but I prefer that so much more than digital. All my measuring tools are analog, I like to see dials move I guess. And it feels more accurate. This one tool does everything (X,Y and Z) very well.

After fumbling about with crappy electronic edge finders with batteries that go dead or short out and tips that weren't concentric the Haimer takes all of the frustration out of the setup process. Especially considering that it works just as well on plastics as it does on metals. I've spent more money on crappy edge finders over the past 5 or 6 years than a Haimer costs and I'm confident it'll be in my tool box for quite some time. My only advice would be to buy a spare tip because you won't know what to do with yourself during the time that one breaks and the time the new one shows up in the mail.

Don't forget to buy a TTS collar to go with it too.

Thanks for the info... I am warming to dials

I'll check with Tormach as well. Since it is listed on the TTS page, I would think it already has a TTS collar on it or included. But will double check.

[MichaelHenry]

I've got the Haimer 3D Universal analog sensor and would hate to give it up, even though it is not yet TTS-ed.

I use it to find edges, check vise alignment, etc. and also think that an analog readout is much better for this sort of thing than a digital readout.

Mike

[apeman88]

Just curious... wouldn't a touch probe work better in finding zero for X,Y and Z? Is there a reason to go with this edge finder other than cost?

Ken

[Magnum164]

I've got the Haimer 3D Universal analog sensor and would hate to give it up, even though it is not yet TTS-ed.

I use it to find edges, check vise alignment, etc. and also think that an analog readout is much better for this sort of thing than a digital readout.

Mike

Mike,

Thanks.. I had not even thought of the benefits of vise alignment.

I did talk to Tormach and they are working a TTS for it, but for now can mount with just a standard 3/8 TTS. Might have me a Christmas present heading this way soon

[Magnum164]

Just curious... wouldn't a touch probe work better in finding zero for X,Y and Z? Is there a reason to go with this edge finder other than cost?

Ken

That's kind the info I was looking for, for me it is not only cost, but the fact I can use it with non-conductive material such as wax or plastic. So with that requirement, it makes this a very reasonable selection.

[apeman88]

That's kind the info I was looking for, for me it is not only cost, but the fact I can use it with non-conductive material such as wax or plastic. So with that requirement, it makes this a very reasonable selection.

All touch probes work with non conductive material as well and range from $150 (garage made), to Renishaw or Marposs for thousands but can be had used in good condition on eBay for between $200 to $500... my question is... the Haimer seems to be able to read the distance of probe deflection... is this the reason to use this tool? Or is it simply for zero only?

Ken

Sorry.. don't mean to Hijack the tread... just want to know when to use what.

[Don Clement]

What kind of overtravel protection does the Tormach Haimer Zero Master - probe have?

[Magnum164]

All touch probes work with non conductive material

Are you sure?

[Magnum164]

What kind of overtravel protection does the Tormach Haimer Zero Master - probe have?

Only have the info listed on the Haimer info page:

"The extended overrun distance in connection with the proven preset breaking point of the probe give additional security."

That's about all i have been able to find.

[apeman88]

Are you sure?

Positive... I started with an econo probe (Wildhorse Innovations - The DRO-350 Store - Econo-Probe 3D Probe & Tool Height Setter) a few years ago... just purchased off eBay a Marposs E83 wireless TX and E83 RXI receiver with a EL25 probe module... and have seen a friend's Renishaw and all of them are based on 3 point kinematical support to break contact once the tip is disturbed and all of them do not conduct through tip in order to work. In fact... I have ruby tips on both the Econo Probe and my Marposs. The touch probes however, do not measure the amount of deflection where the Haimer does. I am wondering if there is an advantage to reading the deflection. Anyone?

Ken

[Don Clement]

Only have the info listed on the Haimer info page:

"The extended overrun distance in connection with the proven preset breaking point of the probe give additional security."

That's about all i have been able to find.

What I use now is a Starrett P/N 25-511 0.2" travel TDI for Z-height setting http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...uff/TooNo1.jpg , a Starrett 327A 3/8" edge finder for X & Y or a center finder with Interapid 312B-1V tdi with Daedal positioner http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...nterFinder.jpg

All of the above have about at least 0.06" over travel protection. I tried some electronic edge finders instead of the old reliable 327A and always went back after destroying the electronic types with no over travel forgiveness. Also it is pretty hard to damage an Interapid TDI. Interapid TDIs are pricey but plenty tough. So I would find it hard to shell out $400 for another probe without knowing in advance what type of over travel protection the probe has.

Don

BTW Talk about unforgiving: I have spent many hours with eyes glued to microscope eyepieces using micropostioners on an air table probing 1um structures. When there are a couple of Cascade Microtech RF microwave probes http://www.cmicro.com/products/probes/rf-microwave that cost $2K+ each and all one has to do is to sneeze or move your arms to quickly off the air table then $5K is instantly flushed. Its a good thing DARPA had good funding.

[Magnum164]

What I use now is a Starrett P/N 25-511 0.2" travel TDI for Z-height setting http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...uff/TooNo1.jpg , a Starrett 327A 3/8" edge finder for X & Y or a center finder with Interapid 312B-1V tdi with Daedal positioner http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...nterFinder.jpg

All of the above have about at least 0.06" over travel protection. I tried some electronic edge finders instead of the old reliable 327A and always went back after destroying the electronic types with no over travel forgiveness. Also it is pretty hard to damage an Interapid TDI. Interapid TDIs are pricey but plenty tough. So I would find it hard to shell out $400 for another probe without knowing in advance what type of over travel protection the probe has.

Don

BTW Talk about unforgiving: I have spent many hours with eyes glued to microscope eyepieces using micropostioners on an air table probing 1um structures. When there are a couple of Cascade Microtech RF microwave probes RF Microwave Probes :: Cascade Microtech, Inc.: that cost $2K+ each and all one has to do is to sneeze or move your arms to quickly off the air table then $5K is instantly flushed. Its a good thing DARPA had good funding.

That setup is actually not too bad. How would you determine the X0 Y0 if the Indicator is not centered? I would probably be fighting it always trying to to remember the offset. But at least something like that would be better than than what I am using now.

[dbrija]

Are you sure?

I would think not. Depends on the probe. If it is al self contained, and deflecting the tip actuates something in the probe, then yes. The cheap electronic ones I have used complete a circuit when the tip touches a metallic surface. Had to break out a wiggler for plastics.....

[apeman88]

I would think not. Depends on the probe. If it is al self contained, and deflecting the tip actuates something in the probe, then yes. The cheap electronic ones I have used complete a circuit when the tip touches a metallic surface. Had to break out a wiggler for plastics.....

Yes, you are correct... but those are called edge finders and not touch probes. All touch probes I have seen are pretty much based on 3 point kinematical support which do deflect upon hitting a surface (X,Y or Z)... all will also integrate with controller to register zero and even digitize a object for reverse engineering. Tormach, Renishaw, Marposs and other touch probes (and sometimes called digitizing probes) are all based on the 3 point kinematical support design. I'm still trying to figure out if there is a benefit in knowing the distance of deflection that the Haimer can offer.

[Andre' B]

apeman88
On sinker EDMs they do use "probes" that are ridgid and work off electrical contact with the part. I think mainly because the EDM already has all the stuff needed to detect a short circuit between the tool and the part.
You can argue that it is not a proper probe but that is what everyone calls them.

On a commertial machine with a Fanuc or Mitsubishi etc. control adding a probe can be can be expensive if the machine was not ordered with the required options.
With the Haimer when the display goes to zero the center of the spindle is over the edge of the part so you do not have to add or subtract for the radius of the edge finder.

[Cairns]

What kind of overtravel protection does the Tormach Haimer Zero Master - probe have?

It depends on the length of your probe, they sell two sizes. As you start to touch your part the dial starts moving in a clockwise direction, when you make two full revolutions of the dial and the indicator is on zero, you are directly over the part. You get an additional two laps of the dial in overrun, then the replaceable tip breaks off. I don't remember and I don't have the specs with me but I think its ~.01" per lap with the short tip. So there's a fair amount of wiggle room to figure out if you are going the right way or not.

One of the nice things about it is: as the tip contacts a part, the dial indicator always moves in the same direction , regardless of whether you are coming at it from the top, left, right, front or back. So you never have to watch too closely to see if you are going the right way. Clockwise you are getting closer, counter is moving away.

[Magnum164]

I would think not. Depends on the probe. If it is al self contained, and deflecting the tip actuates something in the probe, then yes. The cheap electronic ones I have used complete a circuit when the tip touches a metallic surface. Had to break out a wiggler for plastics.....

Yea, I have seen several where you had to connect a wire to complete a circuit through the part. Not sure if that is older technology, but doing a search I did find some still for sale.

Yea, even at 200RPM my lowest setting it will burn the wax, have to be quick to find the edge.

[MichaelHenry]

Yes, you are correct... but those are called edge finders and not touch probes. All touch probes I have seen are pretty much based on 3 point kinematical support which do deflect upon hitting a surface (X,Y or Z)... all will also integrate with controller to register zero and even digitize a object for reverse engineering. Tormach, Renishaw, Marposs and other touch probes (and sometimes called digitizing probes) are all based on the 3 point kinematical support design. I'm still trying to figure out if there is a benefit in knowing the distance of deflection that the Haimer can offer.

I find it handy when checking vise alignment, parallelism of a plate to the table, Z displacment of the tops of step jaws after they've been swapped (the counterbore on one of the mounting holes has an issue that will tilt the jaw from the X-Y plane), and similar tasks.

A touch probe is good too, only tells you coordinates of one location and it is binary on top of that - either on or off - so your probe routines better be bullet proof. On the plus side you can automate corner finding, center of hole finding and probably a few other things.

Having both seems like an reasonable compromise to me.

Mike