[mntn-biker]

Hello all! Newbie to the forum. I am looking for some input on some benchtop mills as I wish to purchase an inexpensive one for some light duty machining of bicycle parts. I'm trying to do a startup bike component company on a very tight budget and want to start out with smaller mill that I could hopefully run on 110v (if possible). I possibly have an option to get 220v in my garage but that would require additional cost to tie into the electric range circuit with a subpanel.

I am looking to mill aluminum and some light duty finish milling on stainless so I am looking to use carbide cutters so the mill really should be capable of speeds higher than 5000rpm.

I have a cad modeling software that I do my 3D modeling in but I would need some type of cam software too to write g-code and send the info to the mill.

Would would be the optimum deal is if someone had a mill they were selling and wanted to barter for some 3D modeling.

Thanks and I look forward to your input!

Mike

[macpod]

Hi Mike,

What size work envelope do you need? How about tolerances? Also, are you making 3d parts, or 2.5d bike linkages? If the latter, you might want to take a look at cambam for CAM software. I think it's about 300bux.

[rewster]

Hello fellow rider, welcome to the zone.

I too purchased a mill for the purpose of making components. I race DH and ride a lot of a/m, and have been relentlessly designing parts for some time now. Pedals, stems, hangers, levers....it can all be done on these smaller machines.

I have an x2, which is the most common minimill for conversion. After a lot of tweaking, emphasis on a lot, it is possible to make these machines very accurate. If you're machining aluminum, you won't need a machine that runs over 5000rpm. With a belt conversion, mine runs about 4000 tops. Most of the work I do is in 6061-t651 with hss two-flute endmills.

What CAD are you using? For CAM, most folks here will recommend CamBam. It's free for the first 40 uses, and is very powerful. Also, plan on purchasing a full version of Mach3 controller software (~170$)

Just to give you an idea of what can be done with a little patience, here's some linkage that I'm working on for a prototype carbon dh race rig -
http://www.flickr.com/photos/56676531@N03/5499000911/


edit: can't embed flickr image, link is safe though.

[pete from TN]

That is some nice work especially on an X2!! How many setups did that require? Did you ream or interpolate the larger holes? Some very very nice work there you should be proud... peace

Pete

[mntn-biker]

Hi Mike,

What size work envelope do you need? How about tolerances? Also, are you making 3d parts, or 2.5d bike linkages? If the latter, you might want to take a look at cambam for CAM software. I think it's about 300bux.

Need about 7" in the X and Y. Z height 2" or less. Plan to make 2d parts for now. Not sure if I would ever have a need to do 3d parts quite honestly. Looking at starting up with doing some minor finish milling (minor as in .005" to .010" cleanup) and engraving on some singlespeed specific custom stainless steel chainrings and rear sprockets.

[mntn-biker]

Hello fellow rider, welcome to the zone.

I too purchased a mill for the purpose of making components. I race DH and ride a lot of a/m, and have been relentlessly designing parts for some time now. Pedals, stems, hangers, levers....it can all be done on these smaller machines.

I have an x2, which is the most common minimill for conversion. After a lot of tweaking, emphasis on a lot, it is possible to make these machines very accurate. If you're machining aluminum, you won't need a machine that runs over 5000rpm. With a belt conversion, mine runs about 4000 tops. Most of the work I do is in 6061-t651 with hss two-flute endmills.

What CAD are you using? For CAM, most folks here will recommend CamBam. It's free for the first 40 uses, and is very powerful. Also, plan on purchasing a full version of Mach3 controller software (~170$)

Just to give you an idea of what can be done with a little patience, here's some linkage that I'm working on for a prototype carbon dh race rig -
link | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


edit: can't embed flickr image, link is safe though.

I run Catia for my cad right now. Yeah, it is overkill for bike parts but that is what I use for my day to day job right now (tool and die design) and I can design anything for a bike in Catia effortlessly.

I was looking for a machine to run over 5000rpm so I can run carbide on stainless steel to do some minimal cleanup machining on some semi-custom singlespeed specific chainrings and cogs that I want to go to market with. Looking at starting out small and working up from there.

Did you have to retrofit your X2 or did you buy it that way? I like the idea of the R8 spindle. What voltage does an X2 run on? 110V? 220V?

[macpod]

Alright, I like seeing more DH bikers getting into this stuff. This is what I aim to use my SX2 for partially. Do you folks post on ridemonkey.com?


The X2 and SX2 both run off 110v. They do not meet your travel requirements in the y axis however and without modification, only go up to 2500rpms.

CNC fusion sells more or less bolt-on kits to make these into 3 axis cnc units. Folks here can help you with choosing the electronics stuff which isn't too hard.

It sounds like you are looking for a machine for production vs. something you are going to initially have to tinker with like the X2. It is fun, but consider your time

[mntn-biker]

Alright, I like seeing more DH bikers getting into this stuff. This is what I aim to use my SX2 for partially. Do you folks post on ridemonkey.com?


The X2 and SX2 both run off 110v. They do not meet your travel requirements in the y axis however and without modification, only go up to 2500rpms.

CNC fusion sells more or less bolt-on kits to make these into 3 axis cnc units. Folks here can help you with choosing the electronics stuff which isn't too hard.

It sounds like you are looking for a machine for production vs. something you are going to initially have to tinker with like the X2. It is fun, but consider your time

I am looking for some light production out of whatever I get. Ideally, if I could run 2 fixtures, I could be running 1 part while my labor monkey is clamping up the other part on the other fixture.

So maybe a benchtop model may not work for me due to the y axis travel? Anyone know of a benchtop with ~7" Y travel and spins higher than 5000rpm? Perhaps I need to look at a knee type mill that runs on 220V to meet my Y travel?

[awerby]

Made in California, it has a work envelope of 12" x 8" x 6", and the spindle runs between 1500 and 12000 RPM. It's accurate to under .001", and it fits on a bench (if it's a good one - the mill weighs over 200 lbs.) It is made with high-quality ballscrews and square-section linear rails. It even comes with its own computer with Mach3 preinstalled and configured. It's currently $8,800 if you get it from the factory in LA, but I can do a little better on it. I can also help with the CAM software, if you're looking for a cost-effective complete package.

Andrew Werby
ComputerSculpture.com — Home Page for Discount Hardware & Software

[rewster]

That is some nice work especially on an X2!! How many setups did that require? Did you ream or interpolate the larger holes? Some very very nice work there you should be proud... peace

Pete

Thanks for the kind words there Pete. It took a few setups per side. I'm helping a fellow ME student with his senior design project, and we had to alter the design as we went. The bearing pockets were just climb milled using a pocketing wizard, then chamfered. The pressfit turned out to be spot on, which surprised the hell outta me. I still have to finish it up, then it's off to the homebrew anodizing tank


mntn-biker: I retrofit the x2, CNCfusion kit, 381 oz-in nemas, and gecko g540. Bomb-proof setup thus far. Bought the manual mill used locally for dirt cheap, came with R8 spindle (110v). For light production, it's been a blessing and a curse. The gibs and backlash require constant attention, which can be a pain if you're trying to spit out parts. And after extending the y axis to 5 inches, I'm only able to make ~17tooth cogs.

[rewster]

Alright, I like seeing more DH bikers getting into this stuff. This is what I aim to use my SX2 for partially. Do you folks post on ridemonkey.com?

I'm rewster on RM as well, usually post in the South forum. Gravity for life.

[mntn-biker]

1 thing I should probably add is that I would like to use a 3/4" diameter ballnose carbide cutter (that I already have) that I use for machining a "bevel" on the chainring and rear cog teeth. Maybe these benchtop machines don't have the capability of accepting a cutter that large? If a machine uses an R8 collet, I know those come in 3/4" diameter from my days on the floor as a machinist using a manual Bridgeport knee mill.

[hoss2006]

1 thing I should probably add is that I would like to use a 3/4" diameter ballnose carbide cutter (that I already have) that I use for machining a "bevel" on the chainring and rear cog teeth. Maybe these benchtop machines don't have the capability of accepting a cutter that large? If a machine uses an R8 collet, I know those come in 3/4" diameter from my days on the floor as a machinist using a manual Bridgeport knee mill.

the x2, x3 and g0704 are pretty small mills but still use R8 and could hold your cutter.
check the comparisons here.
Mill Comparisons
Hoss

[mntn-biker]

I'm liking what I see in regards to travels and spindle speeds with the Tormach PCNC 1100 except for the price.... It does require 220v but the Y travel is killing it for me on the smaller benchtops...

Personal CNC 1100 Mill | Tormach | We provide personal small CNC machines, CNC tooling, and many more CNC items

[strohkirchw]

If you're on a tight budget then you won't get anywhere looking at large table turn key cnc setups. If you want something comparable to the tormach 1100 or syil x6 then you'll want to do a conversion. You could pay someone on here or else where to convert a bf20/30/etc to cnc and spend thousands less.

[philbur]

If you want a project do a conversion, if you want to make parts buy an established turnkey.

Phil

[ninefinger]

I'm liking what I see in regards to travels and spindle speeds with the Tormach PCNC 1100 except for the price.... It does require 220v but the Y travel is killing it for me on the smaller benchtops...

Personal CNC 1100 Mill | Tormach | We provide personal small CNC machines, CNC tooling, and many more CNC items

Novakon has a smallish mill that has a bunch of the features you're looking for at around $6500 for a turnkey mill

14 by 8 X and Y travel and 12 in Z, 6000 rpm spindle,
NM-145 Bench Series 2
http://www.novakon.net/145%20COMP.pdf

Mike

[strohkirchw]

Novakon has a smallish mill that has a bunch of the features you're looking for at around $6500 for a turnkey mill

14 by 8 X and Y travel and 12 in Z, 6000 rpm spindle,
NM-145 Bench Series 2
http://www.novakon.net/145%20COMP.pdf

Mike

That actually seems to be priced rather well compared to other turn key setups.

[mntn-biker]

That actually seems to be priced rather well compared to other turn key setups.

For the size of the mill (I have a small workshop area to put it in), it can run on 110v, and the price, this is getting a little closer to my price range but still a ways off from what I was originally looking to spend. Originally I was looking at the small benchtop machines for around 2k but soon realized the Y travel was limited for what I need. The Y travel I am looking for is around 8"

[sansbury]

$2000 is table stakes in this hobby and would be enough to do an X2 conversion with tooling if you're careful. Not much more though.

I would concur with Philbur on buying a turnkey machine. I've done a bunch of conversions but they are all constantly work-in-progress. I can make real parts on them, but it's make one part, adjust, make one part, tweak, make one part, re-tighten everything, etc. When I move in the next year or two and get a proper garage or shop space (I have a small basement shop now) I am going to look for a turnkey machine like a Tormach or maybe a used VMC. Actually the one I really like is the Tormach 770--that 10k spindle is really attractive.