[jetski]

I have a question about where the Haas casting facility and the rough machining center is. I hear it is in California but all the photos I have seen are only of what appears to be an assembly plant. I have been unable to find any hard evidence of a U.S. facility. Not that it would detur me from buying one. I just find it hard to believe any U.S. companies are still able to do foundry work here in the U.S. with the EPA rules and in California especialy. Oh and the labor cost also. Can anyone shed some light on this? Please only answer if you have hard evidence of where it is. Recient photos that type of thing.

[HAILINHAAS]

Do a google search for foundrys in the U.S.

Most of the castings are from the U.S.

But as Haas' goals are set pretty high ... 16,000 machines a year ... they need to find other sources ... these U.S. foundrys are not just making casting for Haas .. the foundry's can't keep up with Haas' demand ... there's supposely some projected shortage of cast iron in the foreseeable future ... lock in now

All the machining is done in the U.S. of A.

[HAILINHAAS]

""Not that it would detur me from buying one."" from jetski

Would you buy a Haas or a Hurco?

[Donkey Hotey]

I asked this question on one of the factory tours. They said they farm out the sheetmetal and castings. So it's not 'their facility' that makes them.

I agree that it's amazing that they make anything in California (especially so close to the ocean, in the 'high rent' district), but I'm pretty sure they said the castings come from the midwest somewhere.

We still cast engine blocks in the US so I don't see why it's hard to believe. Besides: my TL-1's bed would have been flat if it had come from Taiwan. :stickpoke

[jetski]

How many U.S. sneaker manufactures do you see...And that is a simple part. What you are saying is you have heard they are U.S. Foundarys and machining facilities, but you have no proof? Photos. or something. I am just trying to make a point with a friend. When 99.5% of your competition is overseas, ie. China. At .50 per hour how can you stay in the mix with out doing the same or the price being 150% of the competition. I think you guys would like to think they are U.S. castings and U.S. rough machined casting...I think we are looking at the wizard behind the curtain Toto. I still put forth the challenge. Prove they are U.S. Castings and who is doing them? Another U.S. built machine use to be Hurco. Not any more, sure all the engineering is done in Indianapolis, and prototyping, and training, and repair. But the machines are cast and rough machined and assembled in...Ta Da Tiawan or China. How can Haas price the same as a Hurco? If he is paying 25-50 buck an hour and hurco is paying .50 an hour? just asking guys, not picking a fight. I am sure Haas is doing their engineering here in the U.S. and some assembly work from the photos, but show me a casting plant here in the U.S. or a rough casting machining center. I don't think it is here. I am just curious and have a bet going. If the tech support from Haas would like to pitch in a comment it would work for me (with 2004 or better photos of course).
Jetski

[jetski]

I bought a Hurco, because of the conversational control. I do primairly 3d injection molds. My guy on the floor will do pin plates, pocket work, support plate clearance, and my guy on the cnc software will do the 3d programming, it frees him up to do the complex stuff. Honestly not trying to pick a fight just curious.

[cam1]

Hi:
We want it all, and we want it now, and want to get "a deal". OK, so we got all that, on the backs of those that earn $.50/hr. Now North American companies have shifted their production too other places (like locusts). We want CNC machine tools for pennies, and now we're concerned about making sure they are being built by North American Labour? I don't get it.

[AMCTony]

One thing is for sure. If we keep buying over seas product for no other reason than they are cheaper then sooner or later none of us in the states will have to worry about buying any tools. Our own government has sold us out and betrayed us in the name of clean "service" economy garbage. Now that 70% of our economy is based on this and not manufacturing (The only true way to create wealth and prosperity) we are watching all of the dollars we printed becoming more worthless and exisiting wealth evaporating like water in the desert.

BTW, why are we dealing with communist countries anyway? If we were serious about free markets we need to be dealing with countries that have people in them that can also make free INDEPENDANT choices to take part in free trade and not government owned corporate entities that enslave their people. As far as the environmental crap, we shut down all our "dirty" industries here to clean up the environment. Meanwhile, the products that they made were still needed and someone has to make them. When the businesses were here and owned by PRIVATE entities the owners tend to care about their community. I am not saying that there are no A**H*** business owners out there but we decided to give birth to the EPA and screw everyone. Now that these products are made in China which happens to be on the same planet, the amount of pollution is staggering. They will never clean up because the state owns large amounts and sometimes all shares in the companies over there. What are they going to do, regulate themself? This is like Washington investigating themselfs. Even if they do admit to wrong doing what are they going to do about it. Fine themselves? That really makes sense, Fine yourself, write yourself a check to pay the fine and cash the check and deposit it in the same pool that you wrote the check from. I believe this is what they call money laundering if you or me do it but never mind that.

[davereagan]

Haas makes their own controls and buys their electronics at the component level. Most Taiwan builders have to buy Fanuc to get credibility. That difference in cost I expect is well beyond any labor difference. Also, freight savings is not to be ignored either. That all being said, I am very glad I bought a Mighty VMC with box ways over a Haas. Oxnard is more than an hour north of LA. That land was not anything like metro LA land. Lastly, skilled workers, even in Taiwan, do not work for $.50/hr anymore. I spoke to a Taiwan born salesman who told me a machinist could make $400/week there. That might be inflated, but $.50/hr is gone.

[jetski]

I am hearing midwest, west coast, sounds like nobody knows for sure? To also go with the thought we are selling our souls for less expensive machine tools. Just to show you what comes arround goes arround, I am a child of the late 50's I remember as a kid hearing about all the Japanese crap comming over in the 60's, I talked with my counter part in the 90's out of Japan and he was complaining of this little island that was making crap and screwing up the Japanese economy (Tiawan)... I told him ya the same thing happened to us in the 60's, some little island, I cant remember the name of it (Japan). We both laughed and discussed in the 80,s Portugal and Spain were building injection mold tool very inexpensivly. Were still going to be here we just need to adapt. For example I run an injection mold tool shop. I compete as best I can with China. My own company gets quotes from China and our shop. Cost wise compairing China to our shop ($45.00 per hour shop rate). If I design the tool order the base and insert steel, when all the material get here, I can not touch it...That is the China price delivered. How do I compete. Delivery and a more accurate tool. At $45.00 per hour shop rate I have to be lean and fast. My shop has no manual machines (other than a surface grinder and a welder). No rotary tables. Our shop will bring in up to $6000.00 per month just on low production work. Creativity small companies that can react fast and have enough insight to see work and more efficient ways of doing it will alway kick butt. For example the other day I helped a friend start a waterjet company. I am now having him rough my through pocket on my mold bases. 8 x 11 pocket through 1.375 thick P-20 in 15 min $75.00. In one hour -150.00 I have 2 pockets roughed out and only .03 per side to finish out. I figured I saved 2 cutters at 50.00 each and probably 4 hours of shop time on each one. Oh I also got the keep the (2) 8 x 11 pieces of P-20. That is small business being quick on its feet. Now with the cost and the labor of other countrys, I see Vietnam from what I hear being the next China. This will screw up the Chinese economy and as you have already heard there tools are not that good (injection mold). So the cream of the crop will rise in China along with their prices. The weaker poor quality shops will die on the vine. Then Vietnam will suck the life out of the Chinese economy. Machine tool builders are already there, ball screw mfg are in the process if not already there. So in 5 to 10 years we will here China ***** about how Vietnam screwed up their economy. The wheel of the industrial revolution leaves a rut in another country. You just have to learn to react and do not put all the eggs in one Chinese basket. So back to the poop covered stick in the eye question any names of the U.S. foundrys in the (midwest or the west coast)? How about a Haas photo of what I heard there own foundry. " I have a gentlmens bet with a friend on weather they are here or not so proof is needed. How about a Haas manager cimeing in? Surely there is a Haas manager out there somewhere who would love to add to our peacefull discussion and setle our questions. Please do not take this as me picking on Haas. I do have a chip on my shoulder but it is because I am up to my ears in work!

Capin I can not make it go any faster, I even tried puttin a weenie in the warp drive, and I just can not make it go"! Ok you got me I am also an old Star Trek fan too.

[cam1]

1Billion people (the population of China), will want and get alot of cars and washing machines. USA & Canada & Mexico together only make up half of that. Don't overlook the huge internal market that the Chinese can turn to, when we can no longer afford their products.

Jim,I'm only a doctor.....

[ZipSnipe]

Well heres an example, I own a glass shop, two years ago my business dropped by 60% , about 30 glass shops popped up after the hurricanes and the short building boom that they were all trying to catch but only caught the tail end. Some of these shops resorted to very cheap pricing(almost China wage). And now about 30 some shops are closing up, I survived by getting nite time work as a machinist. And now business is starting to bounce back up. My point is there will always be someone or some country in the world that will do it cheaper and we just got to weather it out. Our dads complained about Japan, we complain about China and our kids will complain about Africa or Canada! As far as U.S. Companies they will always go after the most cost effective method of making money! (of course, don't ya know all CEO's need at least $100 to $200million dollar salaries)

As far as Haas goes ,Ive heard nothing but good praise about their machines, we use Mazaaks where I work but I,m hoping we'll get a Haas in the future, preferrably one of those CNC lathes(Hint ,hint Boss in case your reading this)

[61SedanMan]

My new TM-3 says Kurzdell (Spelling?) Michigan on the casting. Since that is where many of the automaker foundries were, that is where my money sits.

[jetski]

zipsnipe I hope your boss wasn't one of those 100 to 200 million guys you were trashing earlier, outch. Hey not that I am sticking up for the 100 to 200 million guys but remember they are in the 50% plus tax bracket now look at what is being removed from the pockets (double outch). And the company they own pays for our insurance and lawers to keep thieves out, Oh then they also contribute to our 401s if you have one. I am a little guy that knows if the movers and shakers dont have money to play with niether do we. It is supply and demand and Reganomics. Trickle down works even the democrats tryed to rename it the other day to look like their idea. 18 year olds haven't seen it work yet. Any way what do the Haas castings say back to the original question? Come on there has to be some 100 to 200 million dollar Haas exceutive just wanting to come out of the closet on this one. I will bet my 19 and 62 Rolls-ken-hardly on they are not cast or machined here. Come on Gene H. Talk to us in the coolant fields. What bat cave is the foundary or machining center in. Gene let us talk of trickle down economics, and supply and demand.

[cam1]

ZipSnipe: I'm a Canadian, you know the cousin up North that's got the worlds largest freshwater supply, and the tar sands....we share a border, language, and free speech. We drive the same cars, and have the same worries. We're not the "bad guy". We go back a long way, and we're not the ones taking food off your plate.
Part of the problem here is that we are not going to get anywhere, unless we take a hard look at ourselves, and how we behave globally. We're not exactly the people we say we are.
It's all good and fine to be the way we are, until people start to copy our behavior.

regards

[cam1]

Gene is in Jail, isn't he?

[jetski]

What is a TM-3 Kurzdell Michigan (what year). That is probably a small province on the quang dong peninsula, South of Bang Cock. The plate on my Hurco reads One
Technology Way Indianapolis, but I know it was made in Tiawan. We need to hear from the Haas Gods. The smoke shal clear the clouds will part, the earth will rumble and Gene will speak. It may be in Tiawanese but he will speak. If you remember in the 60's there was a town in Japan called Usa (marketing genius). You tag would say made in USA. They are funny guys. now lets have some fun and get to the bottom of this. I will see you all on Monday got to get back to work. So I am off like a prom dress.

[jetski]

Gene is not in jail that is Haas's new "Exceutive Office and Sheet metal Facility". Formerly the Federal pen. I do not think he is in jail. I am sure some good lawerin is at work there. Besides what is a few million in tax evasion suposidly. Ok now I am out of here, stick on task guys, where is the foundry and mfg center (casting cutter). Prom dress is off again.

[61SedanMan]

I assume the TM-3 comment was a joke. If it wasn't, and you do not know what a TM-3 is and you bought the Hurco, I would ask you what you were doing in this forum. My Haas Toolroom Mill is a 2008 and Michigan is big and bold, raised lettering in the casting. I am sure the city is wrong (I am at home, not work) but I am sure the state is right.

According to the HMC (Horizontal Machining Center for you Hurco owners) brochure (http://www.haascnc.com/pdf/brochure/HMCBrochure.pdf) all Haas casting are poured in North American Foundrys. That at least narrows it down to three countries!

[Geof]

I don't know about castings, but a few years ago I met a Patternmaker up here who was making patterns for TL castings. I have no idea if he is still doing it.

Regarding Gene's current domicile according to the thread about his defalcations he is in the slammer and will be there for almost another two years (?).