[Magnum164]

Looks like my coolant is getting into the way of health, won't go into boring details but after a lot of thinking I have decided it's not worth the hassle for what I do.

That being said, would love to hear/see any suggestions on how to machine AL dry. I realize I will run into problems since I have a project that needs stainless machined.

I know Don uses the Vortec and I am still trying to decide if I want a compressor big enough to run one.

So... Anyone completely DRY on your Tormach as well?

P.S. No need to try and convince me to stay with coolant... It won;t be productive

[concombrefrais]

Hey Magnum,

I never used coolant myself, mostly for the mess but the possible health issue always kept me away to even try. I just use compressed air to clear the chips. I recently bought a small solenoid valve to implement regular air blast while I machine (otherwise I either leave the air constantly on, or I have to blast manually). The plan is to hook it up to the coolant plug on the machine so that I can control it with my gcode. Should work well but I would like to have a regular blast rather than just have it on/off. Of course I can just write a gcode with many on/off commands but it would be tedious so I might figure something else out.
Christian

[Magnum164]

Hey Magnum,

I never used coolant myself, mostly for the mess but the possible health issue always kept me away to even try. I just use compressed air to clear the chips. I recently bought a small solenoid valve to implement regular air blast while I machine (otherwise I either leave the air constantly on, or I have to blast manually). The plan is to hook it up to the coolant plug on the machine so that I can control it with my gcode. Should work well but I would like to have a regular blast rather than just have it on/off. Of course I can just write a gcode with many on/off commands but it would be tedious so I might figure something else out.
Christian

Hey Christian thanks for the idea. I was thinking of hooking up a shop vac, but a blast of air would work with a solenoid. Kinda like the idea... Working on ordering material for an enclosure so the air won't blast everything all over the shop. Surprised I managed not to get coolant everywhere

[concombrefrais]

I got this one:
1/4" Plastic 120VAC Electric Solenoid Valve Water-Air - eBay (item 140399791239 end time Mar-11-11 13:13:03 PST)

It is cheap and works on 120V so it should be simple to hook up. I have not had time yet to try it so I can't tell you about the quality. I'll let you know when I get around it. I tried the vacuum too, works pretty well but not if you have deep pocket. It is also loud so I don't use it unless I cut wood. It is also more difficult to keep close to the workpiece. It is worth considering though. You could also plug right to the tormach.

C.

[concombrefrais]

I hook it up today and it works very well.

[Magnum164]

Are you controlling it by g-Code or manually for now. For now I can use a air-gun to blow the chips out but if it can be controlled and be automatic -even better.


Just put my new vise on my machine, HUGE for my 770 but I think I will like having more choices in jaws. I mention that only to say I have to redesign my shroud to account for the vise and chips blowing from the air. I can imagine them going everywhere.

[concombrefrais]

The way the solenoid works is simple: the valve is off by default but when a current (120V in the case of mine) is applied to it, it turns on and let the air go through. Now if you just plug it to the coolant outlet on the machine, then any time your g-code calls for the coolant to be turned on, the solenoid let the air go through the valve and you get your air blast. You still need a system to bring the air close to the work piece but any sort of tubing works, you can probably use what you used to distribute your coolant before.

So, yes it works well. The only thing I would like to figure out is a way to have my gcode regularly calling the coolant on and off, say for a half a second at a time every 2 seconds. I just need a blast not a constant blow. The only reason to do so for me it to save air and avoid to have my relatively small compressor to constantly run. I hate the noise, plus it is kind of wasteful. Let me know if you find another solution to dry machining.

Christian

[twocik]

Curious what happened ? What kind of coolant are you using ?

[RTP_Burnsville]

No flood coolant here either.... Mostly use the shop vac, compressed air, or WD40. I have been wanting to build something similar to the Trico microdrop coolant system but just have not found the time. To me that looks like the ideal answer for the home or small shop. BTW, this is different than the more common mist system.

Robert

[rowbare]

For reference patent #5390854 describes the FogBuster.

bob

[Magnum164]

Curious what happened ? What kind of coolant are you using ?

I was using the Tormach coolant. I have a sinus/allergies problem and no longer have a sense of smell for certain things. It seems I could not smell the fluid and some relatives noticed it in the shop and got a headache, so it seems that could be what was giving me some sinus/headache issues. Just as a note, I can not be around anyone or an area where someone is smoking, it will give me an instant headache. One of the reasons you will see on the forums, where I don't like using solvents for cleaning. I can't smell them sometimes

[Magnum164]

No flood coolant here either.... Mostly use the shop vac, compressed air, or WD40. I have been wanting to build something similar to the Trico microdrop coolant system but just have not found the time. To me that looks like the ideal answer for the home or small shop. BTW, this is different than the more common mist system.

Robert

I am guessing there will be some challenges. For instance I have some Stainless I need to cut and from what I have been reading, it should be cut with coolant. So may need a mist system, but would rather not. If I have to splurge and try the Vortec system on SS I might.

[David Bord]

I am guessing there will be some challenges. For instance I have some Stainless I need to cut and from what I have been reading, it should be cut with coolant. So may need a mist system, but would rather not. If I have to splurge and try the Vortec system on SS I might.

Im pretty sensitive to chemicals, and was using Hagerstaf(sp) HF which was supposed to be pretty tame, however, it bothered me.

I switched to Koolmist 77 and using it as a flood coolant for years now and absolutely no issues. I have a buddy who reviewed the MSDS and said you could practically drink the stuff. I would use this stuff as flood WAY before a mist. I have no interest in breathing any mist related to machining.

David

[pete from TN]

And it was pretty good but I did get some black rust under my vise if I did not remove it occasionally. It is good stuff otherwise I thought. I am currently using some stuff I got from my buddies machine shop and it is really great and a little more resistant to bacteria. I am gonna have to find out what he used... Peace

Pete

[RTP_Burnsville]

I am guessing there will be some challenges. For instance I have some Stainless I need to cut and from what I have been reading, it should be cut with coolant. So may need a mist system, but would rather not. If I have to splurge and try the Vortec system on SS I might.

I don't think you totally understand what I was getting at. Here is a link to Trico's system, there are one or two other similar systems that I have found. Again this is not a mist system and does not take large volumns of air as a vortex.

http://www.tricocorp.com/pdf-files/MD1200.PDF

Advantage - One uses only a few ounces of fluid per day and your shop is not filled with a mist. The concept is it applys a few drops of coolant direct to the cutting location rather than blowing fine droplets everywhere.

Robert

[underthetire]

+1 on the micro drop. Veggy oil is pretty safe, and never fogs the shop up. Plus it keeps rust away. I used to set these up on Tree CNC knee mills all the time for people. Solenoid tied in to the M8 command, unhook the coolant pump, and walla. Simple.

Products - Metalworking - Vegetable Lubricant

[twocik]

I see yes I too had a problem with this and luckily my fiancee is a RN and use to work at a allergy office. I noticed a discharge from my nose and man all day I could smell it. I'm thinking maybe it could be the bacteria after the coolant has been sitting for so long that's getting you all worked up. On top of all of this I have deviated septum and can't smell much myself, sucks. I'd try a bubbler or make some sort of skimmer, only because flood will allow you go faster than dry from my experience, not to mention the tools life.

[Don Clement]

Again this is not a mist system and does not take large volumns of air as a vortex.

That's for sure! 1.7 Cubic Ft./Min. @ 80 PSI for trico
15 SCFM @100psi for the Vortec 610. The Vortec does work by cooling as shown here monitoring with thermocouple at -7.4*C down from ambient (25*C). http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...minus7degC.jpg

The Vortec is not as efficient as flood coolant at keeping parts cool but it does keep parts cool. Cooling does make a difference when machining aluminum as the CTE of AL is twice that of steel. Flood coolant works best to keep part dimensionally stable and there is less effect from temperature rise due to machining. Does Trico keep the parts cool while machining?

[Magnum164]

I don't think you totally understand what I was getting at. Here is a link to Trico's system, there are one or two other similar systems that I have found. Again this is not a mist system and does not take large volumns of air as a vortex.

http://www.tricocorp.com/pdf-files/MD1200.PDF

Advantage - One uses only a few ounces of fluid per day and your shop is not filled with a mist. The concept is it applys a few drops of coolant direct to the cutting location rather than blowing fine droplets everywhere.

Robert

No I understood... Just at this point coolant or mist options are low on my list..... Very low..

I have been doing a lot of reading on dry machining and it's actually interesting how companies are making it work and being productive.

[Magnum164]

That's for sure! 1.7 Cubic Ft./Min. @ 80 PSI for trico
15 SCFM @100psi for the Vortec 610. The Vortec does work by cooling as shown here monitoring with thermocouple at -7.4*C down from ambient (25*C). http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...minus7degC.jpg

The Vortec is not as efficient as flood coolant at keeping parts cool but it does keep parts cool. Cooling does make a difference when machining aluminum as the CTE of AL is twice that of steel. Flood coolant works best to keep part dimensionally stable and there is less effect from temperature rise due to machining. Does Trico keep the parts cool while machining?

I still think if we put a Peltier inline with some sort of air blast that would be awesome