[martinw]

Dear Walter, Galo, Geof , Zumba, and fellow Flat-Earthers,

Sorry, I've been away for a week so I hope it's not too late for you to accept my unconditional surrender on the flatness issue. I got it wrong.

Nice pour Walter.

White flag.

Best wishes

Martin

[walter]

Martin, good to see you again. Your critique is always a great help!



I'm hitting the lab. Time to crack this baby open and see what it's made of...

[walter]

"Houston, we have a problem.."

[speed33317]

Parked the car on them. Figure 800 pounds each tire.

Smashed to pieces with a hammer, car did nothing to them.

Did not take too much effort to smash them.

[max_imum2000]

i have read this thread from the start
i came from a chemical background ( i am a chemical enginner)
i had many test before on different kinds of polymers
most of these are not impact resistance.
they can withstand elongation, pressure, but not impacts, not high compression.
i have made beds for ballscews , timming pulleys etc from different polymer compositions.
the best i came with is using polyester resin combined with aluminum fibers (left overs from my lathe). it came out to be very very strong but again not impact resistance . epoxy should be stronger but again not that strong.
i wonder what will happen when something hit the lathe or mill bed, or it fell done for any reason, you will have cracks all over.

the secret is on the additives that is added to the mix.

there is an idea i am willing to try soon, i will let you know how it goes.

its involves, aluminum (s.steel) mesh + fibergalss sheets.
you simply place fiberglass sheet then use a paint brush to put a epoxy coat on it (as low as you can go) , then place the metal mesh , then again apply a sheet of fiber glass coated with epoxy on both sides and again and again , untill you obtain the thickness you want.
with some thinking it can be placed in molds offcourse, as fiberglass sheets and are very flexable.

that should have a good impact resistance, but it require long time to be made.

but i wasnt thinking of using this or other methods for making the bed only , maybe construct the whole thing.

one other thing i didnt see anyone mention it, is to fill metal sections with resins (for damping). that will protect the resin.

[Geof]

"Houston, we have a problem.."

Did it come back or stay bent?

[walter]

Did it come back?

It did not.


1. The Forklift Theory is definitely out. You can hit it at 30mph and crack the forklift, basically.

2. I still consider it a failure, due to the gummy nature of this particular sample.


Something is definitely wrong here. Could be the carbon powder, could be the epoxy, I dont know..

This thing is far away from granite- it's basically a big shoe sole.

Keep in mind that I'm not looking for damping properties here (that seems to be excellent!). I'm looking for concrete and granite-like slabiness.

The EQ countertops seem to have that, could it be the polyester resin?
_

[brunog]

Walter,
Is it really a problem?

Ok, it bent, was it easy to bend? Do you have any idea of the psi's required to bend that slab? Don't forget that all metals bend. I see that the piece of angle iron flatened also. Which one started bending first? the E/G or the angle iron??

I also noticed that the largest aggregate you had in your mix was under a milimeter in diameter, the results might be different with larger aggregate like 1/4" for instance.

That seems to prove that steel reenforcement is also necessary.

Walter, I don't find the results discouraging at all. It just did not work exactly as expected, and there are still a lot of possible solutions down the road.

Thanks for the photos, and your output

Best regards

Bruno

[brunog]

Walter,

If the product is gummy maybe ther is too much epoxy in the mix!??! I doubt that the carbon powder would have any effect unless you have 10% in volume in the mix which does seem to be the case.

Bruno

Bruno

[martinw]

Walter,


Walter, I don't find the results discouraging at all. It just did not work exactly as expected, and there are still a lot of possible solutions down the road.

Thanks for the photos, and your output

Best regards

Bruno

Dear Bruno,

You are bang on the button. It isn't any kind of failure....it's progress.


Best wishes

Martin

[Geof]

Walter keep the fragments, looked like you had broken it. Test one again in two or three weeks to see if the curing continues. And possibly warm the other very gently up to 40 or 50C and hold it there for a week and see if that makes a difference.

You may simply not have it fully cured.

[walter]

Good ideas. Thank you!

[speed33317]

Here is another thought.

Up the resin to 15% by volume.

Add chopped fiberglass fibers to the mix.

[lgalla]

Progress!
We need to compair results
from Walter,Sandi,Speed,William as to ratios, vibration etc.
Walter has undercure.The low epoxy ratios appear to slow down the curing process and the aggregates act as a heat sink.Full epoxy cure is usually 1 week with all the fill it maybe 2weeks or a post cure in the oven may be necessary.Any epoxy sand I ever did got extremely hot,mind you my ratios were mor like20%/80%.Give it time to cure or do the oven thing when the wife is out.
Off ratio can result in "gummy"I am sure everyone has mixed properly.
If you use two separate A&B measuring cups,notice much epoxy stays in the cup and you have to scrape it out.More accuracy can be had if you get graduated mix containers from home depot in the paint dept.or from a bodyshop supply.Say pour in A to 8 oz and B to 16oz and you will have an accurate mix for 1 to 1..During power mixing you should once in a while stop and scrape the sides of the mix container and proceed with the power mixing otherwise one componet tends to collect on the side walls.
Good progress!!!
Larry

[walter]

i have read this thread from the start
i came from a chemical background ( i am a chemical engineer)
i had many test before on different kinds of polymers
most of these are not impact resistance.

the best i came with is using polyester resin combined with aluminum fibers (left overs from my lathe). it came out to be very very strong but again not impact resistance . epoxy should be stronger but again not that strong.

Max,
I appreciate the input.
There are some great people here, and always room for more so please join the discussion. New ideas are welcome.

Speed,
Your aggregate seems to work better. I may need to up the size...

Bruno,
My other samples don't seem to have that gumminess. They were poured just 24h ago (1/3 thickness).

left: superfine quartz only
center: pool sand only (up to 700 micron)
right: zeeospheres only

No pigments



Center sample feels solid and very heavy but glass-like fragile. It will definitely shatter into pieces. Fine powder sample resembles chocolate caramel cookie bars- I almost can’t believe that I haven’t tasted it yet.

Third sample has granite like surface, extremely smooth, very tightly packed. (Zeeospheres are known for their low viscosity and great flow).

Not heavy but definitely stone like! I'm impressed.

Larry,
Thanks for stopping by, I was hoping you would chime in!
Well, I guess my adventurous mixing technique is showing up. This was my first sample and the accuracy was +-20%. Haven't even started on vibration.

More info tomorrow. Thanks for all the contributions!
:cheers:

[speed33317]

My light sand is Pavestone brand filter sand gotten at the Depot.
Very clean out of the bag, but wet so I had to dry it.

I will probably use the same, add chopped fiberglass fibers
and up the epoxy to 15%.

But no more testing, next I'm going for it.

"Sink or Swim"

20 bags of sand, 10 gallons epoxy ,25 pounds of 1/2" chopped fiberglass.

I'll have to adjust it, my calculations I need 75 gallons, appox 10 cubic foot.

I'm going to bed.

[lgalla]

Walter is your blue sample only Zeeospheres or a percentage?Do you notice an improvement in mixing properties with the ballbearing action of the Zeeospheres?
Mix ratios must be adhered to.1to1,2to1etc are formulated for ease.Specific air craft type epoxy maybe 46/54.1to1 or2to1 maybe more forgiving but we should try to be within 5%ratio.
On the surface plate mixing or TT,they stress not to scrape the sides of the mix container to get every last drop as it will not be mixed properly from the sides.You are right,some of you pours look good enough to eat.Perhaps we will be making cookies.:cheers:
Larry

[lgalla]

Speed33317 SLOWDOWN grab a couple of:cheers: eers.YOU ARE SPEEDING,120 in a 60 Zone.As per Walters "choclate carmel cookie bars"You want this to work. Do some testing first.The chopped glass will thicken the mixALOT.
My$2.00 worth due to inflation
Larry

[walter]

Zeeospheres only, Larry.

Talking about improvement! This stuff is absolutely incredible. Must be seen to be believed..



(bottom thumbnail has a bigger picture).


But check this out - 50/50 Zeeospheres and 3 micron quartz powder. Also very strong and stone like.



I may need to look into this some more...

[lgalla]

Walter,you know the benifets of spheres,but at 100% we do not know the vibra damping qualities.Shurly 3M with their high tec labs would do testing as it would benefit them if the qualities equaled E/Q or E/G in machine damping.Talking to a sales rep may prove interesting.
Spheres arrest cracking,besides other qualities and an E mail to 3M about our application may result in their labs testing for us.
Larry