[MetalHead6263]

I never fully understood how these work , but I know it has to be simple . I looked and looked for a sketch of the plumbing but never could find one ,so I winged it ! I filled the table with 75 gallons of water and drained it in the tank . I aired up the tank to 10lbs of air and opened the tank water drain valve to fill the tank . It only blows air in the table . I put more water in , thinking the water has to be over the tank inlet and outlet fittings , it still blows air . Should my inlet air pipe be in the bottom of the tank ? I have no piping inside the tank .Please study my plumbing pictures , and a big thanks !!!!

[stag53]

Outlet needs to be at the bottom of the tank.

[Geof]

Pipe connecting tank to table should be connected at the bottom of the table (obviously ) and also connected at the bottom of the tank.

Pipe for air to tank should be at the top of the tank.

EDIT: With the tank on its side the side nearest the floor is the 'bottom'. Rotate the tank until a side inlet is at the bottom. Maybe you will have to compromise for the air inlet and put it at what would be the top inlet with the tank standing upright unless there are two side inlets opposite each other.

[MetalHead6263]

I'm sorry but I still dont understand ? The drain is in the bottom of the table . The tank is on its side . The tank has two identical threaded openings [located half way up from the floor on the tank , note picture ] Thanks for the replys so far , still dont get it though

[stag53]

Drain on the table should be at the bottom. You got that.

The outlet (tank to table) NEEDS to be at the bottom of your tank. Air should be supplied to the tank at a fitting that is above the full level of the tank when filled. Essentially, what you are doing is pressurizing a volume of air above the water level and pushing on the water; pushing it out the bottom of the tank and up to your table. Water is heavier than air, so you need to push DOWN on it to push it out the tank (think gravity), otherwise the air just blows right out and up to your table.

[stag53]

Just realized you've got a bladder tank (from a well water system?)...

Either way, I'm pretty sure you need to orient that baby such that the water outlet is at the bottom, i.e. the tank needs to be mounted vertically. I have never used one of these specifically, but as it is basically the same as a hydraulic accumulator, and that's the general rule. Also, check on the pressure ratings of the unit. At 10 PSI, you may not be fully inflating the bag...

The other odd thing is that you're getting air out at the table... is it constant? You might have a blown bladder...

[MetalHead6263]

The wellmate tank does not have a internal bladder , its just plain fiberglass . They make those tanks with or without the internal liner . This one has no liner . I scored it as a freebe ,it was left by the dumpster at Culligan Water . I asked them if I could have it they said they didn't know if it was anygood or not . Turns out its like new a 600.00 tank free !

[stag53]

Cool! Always nice to score a freebie.

Well, either way, since you have only a fitting at top and bottom, you'll have to orient the tank vertically to get the water out. Air in at the top, water out thru the bottom...

[Danno]

Take a look at my machine build http://www.cnczone.com/forums/plasma...ble_build.html

I put a couple of videos on there of my table filling up. The drain, ANDthe water outlet must be on the bottom !! The 10 PSI of air pushed on top of the water to push it out.
On my tank, it looks like the outlet is on top( which it is) but the pipe continues to within 1 inch of the bottom of the tank.
If you need anymore help, PM me and I will make you a small video on how it works.
I looked at your pictures, and that setup will not work. Like stag53 said, you will have to flip the tank vertically, and drill an air fitting on the opposite end of the tank for an air fitting.
Dan

[MetalHead6263]

Guys would this be an option , since I really want the tank under my table ?

Keeping the tank positioned as shown

1. The fitting where the water drains into the tank at the tank , place a tube or pipe inside the tank to within one inch of the bottom

2. There is a female fitting in the top of the tank I hand already fiberglassed in [you dont see it in the pictures] . Use this fitting to put air in the tank , there by pushing air down on the liquid in the tank , thru the suction pipe inside the tank , which is one inch from the tank bottom

Would this work , and thanks for all the help so far !!!

[Geof]

1. The fitting where the water drains into the tank at the tank , place a tube or pipe inside the tank to within one inch of the bottom....

Yes having a dip tube like this is equivalent to having the outlet at the bottom.

2. There is a female fitting in the top of the tank I hand already fiberglassed in [you dont see it in the pictures] . Use this fitting to put air in the tank...

This will work. Actually it does not matter where you put the air into the tank even if the air inlet is below the water level because the air, of course, bubbles up through the water. However if you want to vent the air out and you have the air inlet below the water level you will get water coming out of the air inlet. To prevent this you need to pump a second internal pipe going up so it ends above the water level.

[MetalHead6263]

Thank all of you, I believe I understand now !!!
Merry Christmas

[ward2699]

actually it does matter where the air inlet is. u can put it at the bottom and it will push the water out but when you try to drain the table it will only allow the water to go down so far cause the air in the tank will compress with no way out. put the air inlet at the top or run a tube to the top:cheers:

[ward2699]

oops geof covered that ..sorry

[Geof]

I just re-read your first post and should have picked this out a lot earlier:

...I aired up the tank to 10lbs of air and opened the tank water drain valve to fill the tank ....

The tank should not be under pressure when you are draining water from the table into it.

Have the air inlet to the tank open to atmosphere while the water is draining from the table to the tank.

To return water from the tank to the table you will need very little pressure. If the top of the water in the table is 2 feet above the water level in the tank you will less than 1psi in the tank to start pushing water up into the table. To be precise for every foot of difference between the water level in the tank and the water level in the table you need 0.46psi.

[Danno]

1. The fitting where the water drains into the tank at the tank , place a tube or pipe inside the tank to within one inch of the bottom....

Yes having a dip tube like this is equivalent to having the outlet at the bottom.

2. There is a female fitting in the top of the tank I hand already fiberglassed in [you dont see it in the pictures] . Use this fitting to put air in the tank...

This will work. Actually it does not matter where you put the air into the tank even if the air inlet is below the water level because the air, of course, bubbles up through the water. However if you want to vent the air out and you have the air inlet below the water level you will get water coming out of the air inlet. To prevent this you need to pump a second internal pipe going up so it ends above the water level.

Don't put your air inlet below the water !! Just use the inlet you fiberglassed in for your air inlet and air outlet. Hopefully you made large enough ( like 3/4 NPT or larger) or else it will take forever for your table to drain.
Dan

[C Bad]

hey,

I initially welded together a steel tank for my first water table, which allowed me not to be too concerned with the pressure going into the tank. But now I'm looking into a plastic tank and I need to know the pressure going into the tank. Geof mentioned to pump water a foot you need 0.46 PSI. Is that all? I've attached a diagram of my setup, is there anything else I should take into account?

Appreciate any feedback! Thanks.

[WSS]

Looks like mine. The only valves needed at the top are the air fill and drop/drain/vent valve. I used a 3/4" valve to drop the water back in the tank and wish I had done at least 1" to speed the flow back to the bladder. I used 2-1/2" valves (two like you have drawn) to fill. My tank is 485usg and will fill in under a minute and drain in under two minutes (probably been almost equal if I had used a 1" drain valve). I have a vinyl hose sight gauge to see the level of water in the baldder and a 10psi saftey relief valve on the bladder. It might take 1psi to fill the tank but it does take quite a bit of cfm. My compressor will start once every time I fill, which is every morning, I drain at night to help stop evaporation. I also but in some fill baffles to direct the flow down the table instead of up like a gyser. It works well and is on the same principal as a water truck fan head.

WSS

[C Bad]

I guess I could have been a little more specific. The second diagram I have attached below shows that I have an air fill at the top of the side. I don't have much room to get at the top of the the tank itself once it is under the table. I noticed when filling the table, once it is just about full a loud rumbling sound starts coming out of the tank, could this have anything to do with the positioning of the air fill inlet? For example, the air is going into the tank from one side, therefore the water is being pushed around from the side searching for an out (which happens to be on the side the air is coming from) and starts jumping around in the tank? Is it optimal to have the air going into the tank from the top center.

My setup uses the same piping for water fill and drain. My inlet/outlet is 3cm, so just over an inch. Will or does this cause any problems I am unaware of? With this setup it takes about 1:40 to fill and 5 minutes to drain 132 gallons.

I'm out of town, but come Thursday I'll be able to put up a pic or two of the actual setup.

Thanks for the response!

[keebler303]

I think the rumbling is when you are out of water and it starts pushing air up to your table. Think of gargling water in a 2' high pipe. You know your tank is empty when it starts gargling.

Matt