[thkoutsidthebox]

Hi folks,

I haven't been on cnczone in a while.....haven't been on the tinternet in a while, been very busy with work.....now its time to get back to the real work of cnc'ing!!

Background: Anyway, Im about to buy a shed to relocate my tools and have some sort of temporary proper workshop. Unfortunately, right now at least, I can't really get an electrician to put in permanent power since the shed will be in the in-laws house, and the shed itself I think is enough to annoy them with for one day!

Problem: So, obviously I need power, and running an extension cord or cord's from the house is the order of the day. Sounds simple! Ok, so its September right now, and in about a month god will unleash raining fury on Ireland as per his usual routine . Now Im thinking I dont want some crappy extension cord electrocuting me when it's lying in a pool of water from the house to the shed. So I searched the internet, and there doesn't seem to be much in 220V outdoor cords out there, I only found this one on amazon but its not long enough: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Waterproof-o.../dp/B000R2SFF8

So Im thinking I'll make two of my own as follows:

RCD plugged into mains in house.
Extension cord plug connected to RCD.
15Amp (Or higher) cord connected from the plug and run out to shed, where it will have 4 sockets at that end.

I figure I can use two of these giving me 8 power points in the shed. Four points always being used for the cnc machine, and the others only being used one or two at a time as I'm working. I can also connect the cord above gnd level outside to the house wall wherever possible to minimise the amount its physically sitting in water.

So what do you all think in general?

Am I missing any safety devices I can add into the circuit?

Do you think 15Amp cable is enough or should I use a different amperage, the mains is 13Amps I think?

Thanks all. Hope everyone's being keeping well while I was gone.

[Geof]

Possibly you should find out what the rules and regulations say and the fine print in your in-law's insurance policy. You may rig something up that is safe and works but if it contravenes regulations and then something bad happens, that may be entirely independent of your electrical cord, things can get nasty.

[thkoutsidthebox]

Thats a good point Geof, maybe I should insist on getting an electrician to run a cable...I just thought that extension cords are used all the time for the lawnmower/strimmer etc, the only differance is that mine has to be able to be used in the rain...

[Geof]

Where the distinction is made over here in the regulations is that the cord is to be used in a temporary manner. As soon as you clip it up on a wall you are making it non-temporary.

[martinw]

Thats a good point Geof, maybe I should insist on getting an electrician to run a cable...I just thought that extension cords are used all the time for the lawnmower/strimmer etc, the only differance is that mine has to be able to be used in the rain...

Dear thkoutsidthebox,

I do not know if you are in Eire or the UK, but here is an IEE article that explains the way to do a fixed installation "properly".

http://www.iee.org/Publish/WireRegs/...s_outdoors.pdf

The underground cable would most likely be SWA (steel wire armoured). The alternative would be to run the cable overhead on a catenary wire. I think the rule is that the cable should be at least 3.5 metres above ground, if no vehicles are about. Obviously, the sheath of any overhead cable needs to be UV resistant. Cables laid on the ground are not an option for a fixed installation, simply because, even in the case of SWA cable, mechanical damage is still a possibility.

Personally, I'd probably take the risk of your RCD/extension lead scheme, and ensure it was disconnected when not in use. I would not suggest others do however. Your risk, your decision..

Best wishes,

Martin

[Foils]

My old man has an extension cord that runs inside a hose pipe - he just threaded the cable down the hose and then put plugs on the end after. That makes the cable 'water proof' and offers some degree of protection from being mechanically damaged as well. Building inspectors just thought it was a water hose and didn't ask any questions.

[martinw]

If you go the extension lead way, I wouldn't worry too much about having to protect the cable from water if you choose the right one. Flexible cables snake round building sites all the time, (yes they tend to be 110v not 230v, but they can take the environmental conditions).

Something like

H07RN-F Harsh Environment flexible cable might do.

3 core
1.5 mm2
22 amps
about 11mm OD
about £1.50 per metre

Best wishes

Martin

[thkoutsidthebox]

Thanks folks.
Martin, I can get that cable you mentioned locally in Radionics, so that'll do fine. I'll make my own extension lead and run it inside some hose pipe for extra protection, and I'll roll it up and leave it in the shed when I'm not using it. :cheers: It says it's rated for 40 Amps, so more than enough there, the house board will trip before the cable is overloaded. Not cheap though is it?

http://www.radionics.ie/electronic-c...-4MM2-50M.html

[martinw]

Thanks folks.
Martin, I can get that cable you mentioned locally in Radionics, so that'll do fine. I'll make my own extension lead and run it inside some hose pipe for extra protection, and I'll roll it up and leave it in the shed when I'm not using it. :cheers: It says it's rated for 40 Amps, so more than enough there, the house board will trip before the cable is overloaded. Not cheap though is it?

http://www.radionics.ie/electronic-c...-4MM2-50M.html

Dear thkoutsidethebox,

I have no idea how long this extension lead is going to be, or what size load you will have in your shed. As a result, I do not know if voltage drop might be a problem. The temporary arrangement you described was going to connect via a plug-in RCD to a 13 amp socket in the house. If your total load is greater than 13 amps per extension lead, the fuse in the plug is going to trip. If you wire directly into the ring main, you will fall foul of the regs. because it is a fixed installation IMVVHO.

Why choose a 40 amp cable when you only need to carry 13 amps (unless voltage drop is problem) ???

Best wishes

Martin

[thkoutsidthebox]

Dear thkoutsidethebox,
I have no idea how long this extension lead is going to be, or what size load you will have in your shed. As a result, I do not know if voltage drop might be a problem. The temporary arrangement you described was going to connect via a plug-in RCD to a 13 amp socket in the house. If your total load is greater than 13 amps per extension lead, the fuse in the plug is going to trip. If you wire directly into the ring main, you will fall foul of the regs. because it is a fixed installation IMVVHO.

Why choose a 40 amp cable when you only need to carry 13 amps (unless voltage drop is problem) ???
Best wishes
Martin

Hi again,

We're talking MAX 40 feet, probably shorter depending upon which window I bring it into the house.

Regarding load, I will have two (2) extension leads, each plugged into a seperate socket in the house, and each lead will have a 4 gang socket set at the shed end. Giving me total 8 sockets in the shed.

The first set of 4 sockets will always be used for the cnc machine. i.e: Computer, Monitor, Spindle & Controller. I have been using a 4 gang extension cord from a single plug for this now for months, so I know they're allright on a 4 gang socket set to a 13amp mains.

The second set will be used for whatever tool Im working with at the time, the most power hungry of which I believe to be my 3HP Router. At most two of these sockets will be used at once. i.e One tool, and one shop-vac connected to tool. Shouldn't ever exceed 13 Amps.

So, If I could find the same cable as the one you mentioned in 15Amp or similar, it'd be great, but when I did a google search for the designation number you mentioned above, the hit I got in Radionics says 40Amp. Too much, and probably more expensive than necessary, but what you gonna do, Im not an electrician, and don't know what to search for.

Any help finding the same cable with a smaller amperage is appreciated.

All I need is it to take 13Amps and be fine sitting on the ground in the rain.

Neither end will be in the rain, just a length in the middle from house to shed.

[thkoutsidthebox]

CANCEL MY LAST!

I just found this:

http://www.radionics.ie/cgi-bin/bv/r...eID=ienetscape

[DareBee]

It is highly recomended that you use some sort of GFCI device on each socket at the house that you will be plugging into. You can get in-line units such as these http://www.danielwoodhead.com/pdf/ne...s/saftchek.pdf rated for 220V.

[martinw]

It is highly recomended that you use some sort of GFCI device on each socket at the house that you will be plugging into. You can get in-line units such as these http://www.danielwoodhead.com/pdf/ne...s/saftchek.pdf rated for 220V.

Dear DareBee and thkoutsidethebox,

I could be wrong but I think the gizmo that is called a GFCI in Canada is pretty much the same as an RCD (Residual Current Device, previously Earth Leakage Circuit Breaker) on this side of the pond. It is absolutely essential that one of these is fitted at the house end of each cable. Probably a good idea to hit the "test" button too every time you plug in.

If you do not fit an RCD, and someone gets over-enthusiastic while mowing the lawn, the grim reaper will almost certainly take the mower , and also the person who goes to help the electrocuted person. Sadly, it happened in the UK recently.



Your cable run looks like it might be 40 + (say) 20 feet. Assume about 20 metres . I'm guessing ( and I have not done the calculation), but I think 1.5mm2 might give an acceptable voltage drop, and 1.0mm2 may be a bit marginal. That's just a guess though.

Best wishes

Martin

[thkoutsidthebox]

Hi folks. Well the new shed/workshop arrived as planned and I've been busying myself trying to get it sorted out. Just though you might like to know!

Below is a short video. In the video I've started installing one extension lead, but have only moved in the minimum amount of equipment I need to get the basics sorted. You can see two extension cords I made from that 'hazardous use cable' martin suggested with RCD plugs on the ends. I'll have both the extension cords connected to a 4 way extension through an energy tracker (Little white plug thing) so I can keep track of my electricity costs.

I'm going to build a router enclosure in the back left corner as you walk in. The second extension lead will be wired in to suit this, that's why it's not done yet. Since the video was made I've run around the outside for a few hours sealing the joins in the wall panels with silicon, unfortunately today I noticed some damp coming under the panels at floor level, so I'll seal that tonight. I also finished some lumber racks today. Have to add shelving after the router enclosure aswell. Should be all sorted by early next week. I ordered sound insulation from Germany, the 40mm stuff at the bottom of this page -> ( http://www.sonatech.de/index.php?landid=40a1d14702a9e ), and its arriving sometime next week aswell, so I'll install it asap.

I know its not much, but for a few months it'll do, at least I can FINALLY set the router up properly!Anyway, just wanted to say thanks for all the advice. I always appreciate when someone updates on attempts to try and help them. L8rs.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...94423013&hl=en