[5artist5]

Ok I am looking to get a mill to do some CNC. I have a pretty solid 3D background and I really have always wanted to make my 3D models into real world objects. That aside I am also involved in the aircraft parts industry and I’d like to make some parts here and there for some extra cash if possible. For the time being I am interested in learning how to operate a mill and translate models into parts.

So I have been reading lots of threads here and I have narrowed the mill to either a Taig in the CNC ready configuration or an X2 with the CNC Fusion ball screw conversion package. They seem to be around the same size (around 4 x 15 Table) give or take and the price to have them both at the “CNC ready” state is about the same. But the X2 would have ballscrews at that point while the Taig would have adjustable bronze lead screw nuts.
The X2 looks more sturdy but I suspect that the Taig may be finer precicion.

What are the benefits of one over the other?

[Crevice Reamer]

You can't BUY a CNC ready-to-go X2. And if you DO CNC an X2, you have a home-made machine. When you outgrow it (and you will) and want to sell it on ebay, the Factory CNC Taig will probably have more resale value.

It's very hard to beat the value of the $1700 Deepgroove1 Taig/Gecko package:

http://deepgroove1.com/cncmill.htm

CR.

[5artist5]

I realize that you cant buy a CNC ready X2. If I were to go that way I would get the CNC Fusion Kit that comes with the ballscrews.

So X2 + kit costs about the same as the CNC ready Taig.

I see what you mean about resale though. I think I am more concerned with performance thought.

[Crevice Reamer]

An X2 can be CNCd for about $1000, (Including the cost of the X2) but not with ball screws.

If you are concerned with performance, and have the room and strong floor--Go with the much larger, stronger and more capable X3 to CNC. Of course, you'll need a lot more cash!

http://grizzly.com/products/Mill-Drill/G0463

If you get a Harbor Freight 20% off coupon, an X3 can be had for $800.

CR.

[Hirudin]

Heh, I'm a newb and a TAIG owner so I'm neither informed nor unbiased...

To me it looks like the X2 would probably be better for steel and cast iron* while the TAIG would be better for aluminum and plastic*.
*but still able to do other materials, just not as efficiently

Since I am a beginner, I figured it would be better to try to mill "easier" materials, like aluminum. So one thing that made me choose the TAIG over the X2 is the ER-16 spindle. IIRC it's >4 times faster (~11,000 RPM compared to something like 2,300 RPM) and I guess it's more accurate (the TAIG has less slop as far as I've heard). The faster speed lets me use smaller end mills and higher feed rates.

[5artist5]

Heh, I'm a newb and a TAIG owner so I'm neither informed nor unbiased...

To me it looks like the X2 would probably be better for steel and cast iron* while the TAIG would be better for aluminum and plastic*.
*but still able to do other materials, just not as efficiently

Since I am a beginner, I figured it would be better to try to mill "easier" materials, like aluminum. So one thing that made me choose the TAIG over the X2 is the ER-16 spindle. IIRC it's >4 times faster (~11,000 RPM compared to something like 2,300 RPM) and I guess it's more accurate (the TAIG has less slop as far as I've heard). The faster speed lets me use smaller end mills and higher feed rates.

Well I am a beginner for sure also, so this is all great information! Thanks for the replies so far. Now when you say that the Taig has less slop are you talking about spindle slop or slop in the screws or ways?

[5artist5]

I guess at this point I am leaning towards the Taig.
Looking at the Deep Groove setup it looks like the controller box has a Gecko 540 and it says it has a 38V linear power supply. I had heard that you want a 48 V power supply with the 540 setup and the 280 oz steppers. Any thoughts on this?

[Crevice Reamer]

I guess at this point I am leaning towards the Taig.
Looking at the Deep Groove setup it looks like the controller box has a Gecko 540 and it says it has a 38V linear power supply. I had heard that you want a 48 V power supply with the 540 setup and the 280 oz steppers. Any thoughts on this?

A 48V-50V PSU is optimum, but with the short travel of the Taig, 38V should be adequate. The G540 will run the motors PD fast--even at 38V. You can always upgrade later if you choose.

One thing that I WOULD change in DG1s G540 setup is to add the big red Estop switch on the front of the Box.

Keling has one for $10. Keling ALSO now has some nice Home/Limit switches:

http://kelinginc.net/CNCPackage.html

CR.

[hoss2006]

I'll give you some of the benefits of the X2 since you're only getting one side.

There are more accessories and replacement part suppliers for the X2.
There are more suppliers online and in stores worldwide to see what you're buying first.
There are more vendors selling CNC kits and complete CNC'ed X2s including stepper and servo versions.
There are TONS of free user mods and ideas available to make some really cool stuff for/with the X2.
With the Harbor Freight 20% coupon it's only $400.
It's easily upgradeable to ballscrews for much faster rapids.
Easy to add a power drawbar for a simple ATC that can be controlled by Mach 3.
Easy to add complete spindle control for use with Mach 3 and g-code, i.e. M3 S2500 will turn on the spindle at 2500 rpm. M5 shuts it off.
Just some food for thought.
Hoss

[Hirudin]

Now when you say that the Taig has less slop are you talking about spindle slop or slop in the screws or ways?

I was only thinking about the spindle at the time, but I think the rest may be true too. Another thing that sorta made me steer clear of the X# machines is that the overall fit and finish is questionable... or maybe "subject to luck of the draw" is more appropriate.

I figured since I had so little experience I wouldn't even be able to identify problem areas so would therefor be left wondering why my parts didn't come out like I wanted.

[Regnar]

If you pick up a R8 spindle x2 all the tooling will transfer over to a bigger mill. With the belt drive conversion (highly recommend) you can get spindle speeds up to 4000+. If you are just starting out you will find that as you get more and more experience the parts start to get bigger and more complicated. Your patience will run out when you are taking light cuts. Right now I am still upgrading mine. I am adding a power drawbar but I will tell you if a decent Bridgeport pops up at a decent price I will jump all over it. The tooling switch over will cost nothing.

[MechanoMan]

It's very hard to beat the value of the $1700 Deepgroove1 Taig/Gecko package:

http://deepgroove1.com/cncmill.htm

CR.

It bears repeating- do NOT go for his "house" DG1 controller. The Gecko G540 is the one that works. I got his house controller- it never worked right and was basically told tough, he had no intention of doing anything about it. I had to scrap all of his part of the setup and go buy my own Gecko and power supply.

It's pretty universally known that DG does not provide any support on his setups.
Keep in mind his part in this "setup" is simply putting the G540 in an aluminum box with a power supply, and soldering and heatshrinking the stepper wires onto the cable and the DB9 connector onto the other end. And the 36v supply is a little less desirable than the 48v.

You can buy the CNC-ready Taig from Nick Carter (who is like a god for helpful support, well, a guru), steppers and 48v/7.3A supply from Keling (or eBay), and the G540 from Gecko. Actually Keling has a package for the G540/3steppers/48v7.3A supply for a good price so just get that and the CNC-ready Taig. And whatever box works for you. This will end up being a tad cheaper.

Hmm... actually I'm adding it up and it seemed different than I got last time, he's actually pretty close to what it would cost to get the parts individually. Still, I don't see the advantage of sourcing it all from him if he's not supporting it.

[Crevice Reamer]

I have not seen ANY reports of problems with DG1 Taig/Gecko. Buying the parts separately will cause shipping charges to eat up any savings. If you LIKE making your own cables and wiring up your own electronics then no doubt this will result in a somewhat better system--48V, Estop etc.

However, Dg1 DOES seem to do a good job on the few parts that he touches. Taig is warranted by Taig, G540 by Gecko, Motors are seldom a problem.

I still rate this my Best Buy in a nearly-turn-key CNC mill. (Some assembly required) IMO, the Taig is FAR superior to the Sherline.

CR.

[cyclestart]

Ok I am looking to get a mill to do some CNC. I have a pretty solid 3D background and I really have always wanted to make my 3D models into real world objects. That aside I am also involved in the aircraft parts industry and I’d like to make some parts here and there for some extra cash if possible. For the time being I am interested in learning how to operate a mill and translate models into parts.

I have no experience with Taigs but have seen some jaw-dropping work done with these machines. Simply sticking a cncfusion kit and a g540 on an X2 will not make it the Taig's equal for fine detail work.

The real question isn't which is better, but better for what ? Can you post one of your 3D models and tell us the type of material that will be used ? Include dimensions, We all love pictures

Out-of-the-box the Taig has more Y travel and the rpm to run to run smaller tools.
The X2 is a modders dream. It can do everything a Taig does and more IF you're interested in putting in the extra effort (and the effort is considerable).

[Hokan]

I have not seen ANY reports of problems with DG1 Taig/Gecko. Buying the parts separately will cause shipping charges to eat up any savings. If you LIKE making your own cables and wiring up your own electronics then no doubt this will result in a somewhat better system--48V, Estop etc.

Yep, and if you live in Illinois like I do and have to pay sales tax when buying from Keling all the savings goes poof and is actually a little more expensive building it yourself. Hoffman Estates, Illinois (where Keling is) is a 10% general sales tax rate as of Jan 1 I was expecting around 7.5 or 8%. I didn't realize it till after I ordered the E-stop & 6 micro switches and looked at the paypal email receipt. I'm just waiting on my tax return hopefully this week and I'll be ordering the DG1 Gecko-taig setup.

[5artist5]

Well as far as things i would be likley to make I have been coming up with literally all kinds of stuff! I'm pretty excited really.

I imagine that I would want to do a lot of aluminum, some Delrin, Micarta and i would like to do a little work on steel on rare occasions. I am not looking for good performance cutting steel because it would be pretty rare i think.

the precision part is crucial though, as ideally i would like to make aircraft quality aluminum parts in small quantity (1-5). things like selecter sets for valves, small fittings and stuff like that. Size would be inside of 4 inches square for most things.
I don't have any models of that stuff with me now, but I do have a render of a rifle that i did. It's actually an assembly of polygonal surface models, but I can translate them into solid models and scale them down to fit inside of the mini mill work envelope. I wouldn't say that this model is very representitive of most of the work that I am planning to do on the mill, but you said that you like pics....

[DonF]

You can't BUY a CNC ready-to-go X2. And if you DO CNC an X2, you have a home-made machine. When you outgrow it (and you will) and want to sell it on ebay, the Factory CNC Taig will probably have more resale value.

It's very hard to beat the value of the $1700 Deepgroove1 Taig/Gecko package:

http://deepgroove1.com/cncmill.htm

CR.

Pssst Look here _--> http://www.syilamerica.com/product_X2.asp
Looks like a CNCed X2 to me!

[cyclestart]

but you said that you like pics....

Pictures are good. That one reminded me that a Taig can be used as a light duty lathe in a pinch by mountng the spindle on the table.

The picture also suggests you'll be wishing for a true 4th axis soon. A good reason to consider gecko's g540.

[lbrc]

Not a great photo but the only one I have of the two sitting side by side. Eventually finished the X2 CNC/ball-screw conversion and got rid of the Taig.

Bottom line the Taig was ok to learn on but I quickly out grew it and in the long run it was a complete dead end with no way to upgrade and limited tooling options.

As for the retrofitted X2, most of the parts I make are out of aluminum and very small (less than 1”) it took a lot of work and cash to get the precision and finish I wanted out of the X2 but I finally did with the ability to make parts much smaller/nicer/cleaner and easier than I could with the Taig.

The problem with the X2 conversion is the cost in; time, labor, and experience/expertise, and or like everything else money. The problem with the complete DIY route is getting it right the first time, I didn’t so after two years, several near misses and outright failures of my own making, for the X and Y axis I ended up with the CNC Fusion Kit upgraded with pre-loaded ball nuts and zero backlash couplings (IMO the couplings and pre-loaded ball nut are mandatory for small precision parts). However for the Z axis I ended up with a modified/upgraded version of Ron Steele’s design using a moderately expensive precision ball screw and nut.

Also started with the low cost DIY route for the electronics but eventually scrapped those in favor of Gecko drives, a CNC4PC multifunction C11G breakout board, and AnTek power supply. Which is now being replaced with a similar but tidier set-up from CANDCNC.

Bottom X2 line, with all the parts/kits available to day (i.e. CNC Fusion Kit #4 with coupling and pre-loaded ball nut upgrades and complete ready to run electronics, including pendant, from candcnc) you can quickly and easily throw together a very nice CNC/Ball-Screw retrofitted X2 with pendant control for around $2,500, not including PC and software, and have it up and running on a short weekend, with the hardest part being DIY limit and homing switch installation. Or I believe SyilAmerica has a complete cnc/ballscrew turn-key X2 for $2,395.

Then once your check book has recovered you can add a belt drive kit (IMO mandatory), Tormach tooling system and pneumatic draw bar (couldn’t live without those), and decide on what type of coolant you want to go with, i.e. misting or cabnet and flood coolant.

The ability to accessorize and upgrade is why I recommend a X2 retrofit over the Taig. However if you have the space for a 400 lb mill and a little extra cash I would recommend seriously considering starting with a retrofitted X3 over the X2, even if like me you are only interested in making very small parts.

[Crevice Reamer]

Pssst Look here _--> http://www.syilamerica.com/product_X2.asp
Looks like a CNCed X2 to me!

OK you got me! What I meant and SHOULD have said is: You can't buy a CNCd X2 for $1700. However, you CAN CNC an X2 yourself (If you're handy) for $1000, including the cost of the X2.

CR.