[brinmac]

hi , is anyone actually using a tormach mill ? if so how is it doing , any issues or problems . im interested in one or a similar machine for light industrial prototype and hobby work , as i have a vmc in my shop for production work so speed isnt a big issue but accuracy is .

thanks

[StealthDumpKits]

I looked at their homepage and was somewhat interested myself. However, as a CNC maintenance technician, I was concerned about the viability of the company to stay in business over the next five/ten years. What happens when they go belly up cause nobody's buying the equipment? To put it bluntly, if I wanted a CNC mill with R8 taper, I'd get a knee mill. And I'd also invest in a power drawbar.

For my applications requiring over 1" dia. holes to be drilled all day, the money would be better spent on a downpayment for something useful.

[partsman]

We have one on order- scheduled for delivery, hopefully, this month (been on order for a few months). I too have had a hard time finding anyone actually using the machine. We intend on using ours for small runs of aluminum parts. According to their documentation, it seems like it is really designed for exactly what we are doing.

What happens when they go belly up

I think that is the great thing about the open design. Off the shelf drives, spindles, etc. You really should not need them for support should they not be there in a few years. We are very far from any big name service or support centers. That is one big reason why we chose the PCNC1100. If it breaks- we should be able to fix it ourselves instead of hiring a tech to drive 4 hours to come look at it.

I will post pics and videos as soon as we get our machine.

[phil burman]

I have been using one for the last 3 weeks or so, as a hobby machinist, and it is doing just great. The only issues I have at the moment are that the way covers don't actually cover the ways, particularly the rear Y axis, and a check valve in the oiler line, too the righthand Z axis way, was partially blocked.

I would be interested in what you would consider to be a similar machine. After studying the market for over a year it’s clear, to me at least, that the PCNC 1100 is an order of magnitude better than anything else available at the price. However a VMC it is not. With regard to accuracy I can't say as I have yet to do any specific tests. However in milling operations where you would expect lack of precision to be visible I can't fault it. The web site includes an example of a comprhensive test certificate.

If you are looking to spend $7,000 on an out of the box CNC milling machine then this machine is clearly the benchmark. The current alternative is a converted round column mill/drill for about the same price!!! Unless Tormach have got their sums wrong I think this machine is going to be around for sometime to come. However support should not be a problem in the event that the company disappears, its mostly standard components. About the only thing I can see that would be a problem is if you damage a major casting, not a likely occurrence.

If you do a search for "Tormach" on this forum you will find other points of view.

Regards
Phil

hi , is anyone actually using a tormach mill ? if so how is it doing , any issues or problems . im interested in one or a similar machine for light industrial prototype and hobby work , as i have a vmc in my shop for production work so speed isnt a big issue but accuracy is .

thanks

[Mariss Freimanis]

Deleted by me.

[phil burman]

I think this post presents a negative attitude towards the Tormach with no logical or reasoned justification.

I'm not sure about the link between being a CNC maintenance technician and an opinion on the viability of a company. What happens when any company goes belly up, even a producer of cnc knee mills or VMC's. At least the Tormach is primarily assermbled from off the shelf components.

Why would you buy a cnc knee mill in preference?

A powered draw bar can of course be fitted to any machine with a draw bar. And of course if somebody needs to drill 1" holes all day one would not buy a knee mill either. The final inference that "the money would be better spent on a down payment for something useful" would imply that the Tormach is not useful, which is nonsense, especially from somebody who has neither seem or used one.

By all means be critical but at least provide some reasoning/logic to support your point of view.

Regards (chair)
Phil

I looked at their homepage and was somewhat interested myself. However, as a CNC maintenance technician, I was concerned about the viability of the company to stay in business over the next five/ten years. What happens when they go belly up cause nobody's buying the equipment? To put it bluntly, if I wanted a CNC mill with R8 taper, I'd get a knee mill. And I'd also invest in a power drawbar.

For my applications requiring over 1" dia. holes to be drilled all day, the money would be better spent on a downpayment for something useful.

[Mariss Freimanis]

Fine. I deleted the "no logical or reasoned justification" post.

[phil burman]

If it's pirated then sue. Otherwise give it up. Based on the history of this particular issue "at least as posted on this forum" you have yet to answer the issue of changing specs on you customers with out notification and whether you offered to continue supplying to the original spec. I was of the understanding that the Tordrive was not to the same spec as the Geckodrive in any case. However it seems the test comparison previously published has disappeared.

It at least seems that there has been much more going on here than meets the eye.

Regards
Phil

[QUOTE=Mariss Freimanis]

I think that is the great thing about the open design.

In fact it's so "open" it uses a pirated version of our G201 (REV3). For that reason Geckodrive will never support any of our upcoming products such as encoder-equipped "unstallable" step-motor servos should they somehow factory ship from them. That is until they satisfactorily resolve this issue.

Mariss

[Mariss Freimanis]

Phil,

I'd be more than happy to re-instate and provide the link if you request.

I will consider your sage and freely offered advice regarding my options. You must be correct; you have an amazing recollection of the details at your fingertips, literally within seconds.

Mariss

[phil burman]

Hi Mariss,

I would very much like to read the comparison.

It wasn't so much advice as a request.

Unfortunately my instant recollection has nothing to do with amazing. I have difficulty remembering what I had for breakfast yesterday, or indeed whether I actual had beakfast yesterday.

My instant recollection comes from the fact that I read and reread the related posts many, many times, prior to parting with USD 10,000 + to a company (Tormach) halfway around the world and of whom I had not even heard of a month previous. After a detailed and unbiased review of the posts those were the unanswered questions that provided a degree of justification, at least in my mind. I would be interested in any corrections to my memory.

Regards
Phil

Phil,

I'd be more than happy to re-instate and provide the link if you request.

I will consider your sage and freely offered advice regarding my options. You must be correct; you have an amazing recollection of the details at your fingertips, literally within seconds.

Mariss

[Mariss Freimanis]

Phil,

I guess when we are in our '50s, neither of our memories are so good.:-) In your case you probably don't remember giving a nearly verbatim post as #8 over a year ago.

Memory is a funny thing; never heard of the company until a month ago yet vociferously defend it's practices over a year ago. Distinctly remember the details of a years old test yet need reading it today because you can't remember it.

I'll try to help out by linking to the comparison test again ASAP.

Mariss

[StealthDumpKits]

Phil, do you own the mill, or work for the company? If you carefully read my post you'll notice I qualified my preference for a knee mill due to the machines R8 taper. Just because I'm a maintenance technician doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about when spec.ing out a machine tool purchase.

[Chris D]

Moderators may want to watch this thread, it looks to me like it is going to get nasty.

I believe that Marriss seems to have a very low opinion of Tormach because they purchase a motor drive from his competitor rather than from him. So, I don't know how much value his opinion has in regards to the value of this machine to a potential customer.

One of the reason so few people have seen the machine or even hear about it is that it is very new - less than a year old I believe. Perhaps if you call Tormach and ask them if you can speak to a customer that actually has a machine you can learn a bit more about it that way.

Asking for opinions in a forum like this can be very missleading as some folks have a financial interest in some of these issues.

Chris

[StealthDumpKits]

I agree chris. Sorry I even expressed an opinion, but I was seriously considering a purchase.

[phil burman]

Hi StealthDumpKits,

I apologise if you feel I was being a little harsh.

I own a PCNC1100 and have zero connection with the company other than being a satisfied customer.

But the Tormach PCNC also has an R8 taper.

Agreed but you state you qualification as a maintenance technician in respect to judging a company's financial viability not the equipment spec.

Some details of why you prefer a CNC knee mill to the PCNC 1100 would be most useful.

Regards
Phil

Phil, do you own the mill, or work for the company? If you carefully read my post you'll notice I qualified my preference for a knee mill due to the machines R8 taper. Just because I'm a maintenance technician doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about when spec.ing out a machine tool purchase.

[phil burman]

Hi ChrisD,

I doubt the moderator(s) require any advice as I am equally confident that Mariss and myself are capable of disgreeing in public without getting "nasty".

I actually have a PCNC1100, thats why I posted to this thread. If the original poster contacts Tormach for a customer reference I quess, based on this post, I might be one of them.

Regards
Phil

Moderators may want to watch this thread, it looks to me like it is going to get nasty.

I believe that Marriss seems to have a very low opinion of Tormach because they purchase a motor drive from his competitor rather than from him. So, I don't know how much value his opinion has in regards to the value of this machine to a potential customer.

One of the reason so few people have seen the machine or even hear about it is that it is very new - less than a year old I believe. Perhaps if you call Tormach and ask them if you can speak to a customer that actually has a machine you can learn a bit more about it that way.

Asking for opinions in a forum like this can be very missleading as some folks have a financial interest in some of these issues.

Chris

[StealthDumpKits]

I don't have intimate details on the corps. financial condition. After reading thru their own PR on the site, I formed my own opinion. I could be wrong, but I doubt they are operating in the black yet. It appears to me they are targeting a very narrow range of potential customers, with a single product offering. How many of these units they can sell, at what price, will determine their long term viability. I have the same issues with my own endeavors, that's why I look upon their business model with such a critical eye.

I'd say my number one detail on knee vs. mill would be envelope and travels. Secondary would be toolchange and spindle horsepower. I get the impression from the PR they are making well explained excuses for the flaws in exchange for a cheaper price. Maybe that's what the customer wants, but I'd rather have what's left out and pay more.

[phil burman]

Hi Mariss,

You are looking for a conspiracy where it doesn’t exist. I joined this forum in Dec 2005, so quite how I posted a verbatim message to this forum over one year ago "presumably prior to May 2005" I don't know. Although anything is possible, maybe another forum.

I didn't say I had not heard of the company until a month ago. What I did say is, I parted with $10,000 one month after I had heard of the company or, being more careful and precise with my words in light of the heavy scrutiny, the machine.

I remember the comparison report if only because I wanted to read it but it was deleted before I had a chance. I came across the references to it in Dec 2005 when reading the archive. I would still like to read the report, for the first time. The test may be a year old but if a person reads the posts that refer to it yesterday then it may be fresh in their memory, right. Is there some reason you would not like me to read the report.

I would be interested in a link to my verbatim post on this forum from one year ago. I bet you a beer you can't find it. If the post is verbatim then, did you answer the questions then or alternatively, will you answer the questions now.

Regards
Phil

Phil,

I guess when we are in our '50s, neither of our memories are so good.:-) In your case you probably don't remember giving a nearly verbatim post as #8 over a year ago.

Memory is a funny thing; never heard of the company until a month ago yet vociferously defend it's practices over a year ago. Distinctly remember the details of a years old test yet need reading it today because you can't remember it.

I'll try to help out by linking to the comparison test again ASAP.

Mariss

[Mariss Freimanis]

I'm unsubscribing from this thread at no one's urging but my own.

1) I don't want to put the moderators in the unenviable position of having to seperate two mutually antagonistic advertisers.

2) I can contribute nothing to this thread that helps the people who started it in the first place. Out of courtesy for them this issue belongs off-thread.

Only Mr. Burman seems to have this keen interest in the behind-the-scenes issues; he has my email address and I'd be happy to privately update his personal reading list, review perceived history, share opinions about situational ethics and maybe engage in a pleasant duel of wits. Perhaps he can file a report afterwards how things turned out.:-)

Mariss

[Halfnutz]

From what I've seen and read, it looks like hands down the best bargain anywhere for a cnc mill. Most cnc knee mills are over 10 grand, some as high as 17 grand. What is there really to compare it to? As far as out of the box ready to cut cnc mills theres nothing else available in that price range, except for the little mini mills, that I know about.

A converted square collum is around that price, if you buy it as a kit, but you have to do all the work yourself.

The only problem I see with the Tormach, is that other manufacturers are really going to have to work hard to stay in the game.

I hope its everything they say it is. I'm looking forward to buying one myself someday. Or getting one from a competitor for even less money.

If I had 7,000 dollars and had to have a cnc mill running ASAP, I dont know what else to compare it to, except for used equipment.