[pzzamakr1980]

I haven't noticed any information about this and haven't had time to call Tormach and ask. Sooooo... I figured I'd ask here if anybody has any info. Does Tormach plan to offer the 10,000 rpm spindle on the 1100. Is there a physical difference between the two spindles or are they interchangeable. I know I would love to be able to upgrade the spindle to 10000 rpm. We have two machines at the school shop I work at and machine predominantly carbide with 1/4in cutters or smaller. So a faster spindle would make the work go much much faster. If anybody has any info please post. Thx

[R.DesJardin]

I'd be interested in this too. I run normally 3/8" and smaller 3 flute carbide cutting mostly 6061. A few more rpm might come in handy. Of course a little more HP to go with it too huh.
But only after I get a tool changer to go with my Power Drawbar.

[David Bord]

Im wondering if the cartridge is compatible whether or not one could swap it out, and run a different sized pulley to get the 10K rpm? Maybe they are rated at a different load or have different pre-loads for the expected cutting forces and thats the issues??

[Tormachmaster]

I dout the spindle can do 10,000 rpm without some major changes bearings, balance ,?

[BlueFin]

I have been thinking the same thing, I would think the 770 spindle is too short to make it all the way up and out the spindle bore, if it did fit however, I see no reason why you couldn't make a small pulley to obtain 8K or better RPM with the 1100 motor. You can't put enough side load on a 1/8" or 1/16" end mill to hurt a primary spindle, you can break end mills that small with your fingers.

[kprice1658]

I'm still waiting for more info on the "Speeder" - depending on price - might give us the needed rpms for the small bits.

http://www.tormach.com/blog/?p=535

[Tormachmaster]

I just dont think the machine was ever thought out for that type of rpm and makes me wonder the long term effects even if the spindle bearings are changed. Hey think of all the mazak 410s out there that are having spindle cassetes changed out and they are made for 12000rpm? I had one of ours changed after it locked up at 10000rpm it was not all that much fun imagine the tormach spindle locking up at 10000rpm? The speeder idea sounds much better and safer for the life of the machine.

[howecnc]

Money talks. I am sure they can make a spindle cartridge that will handle the rpm's. I am sure they can adapt the faster motor. I am sure they can make a spindle drive that will run it all. What price will people pay for that and will it be a popular product at that price is the question.

[307startup]

I had a conversation with an applications engineer at Tormach today and was given a few bits of information.

The cartridge spindle in the 770 is not the same size as the one in the 1100 (80mm). The bearings are smaller in the 770 and in a different stack configuration, thus being better suited to the high-speed increase. Not to mention the AC induction motor in the 770 is a 2-pole, versus the 4-pole motor in the 1100. Less poles, more speed, less torque. More poles, slower, more torque.

He said it would be possible to build an adapter to put the 770 spindle in the 1100. That leaves the upper pully in a position that needs to be addressed...evidently any misalignment has a magnified affect on the results.

The 770 spindle is better balanced than the 1100 spindle and the newer TTS tooling is pre-balanced to facilitate their use in the 770. I was told that the older TTS tooling was not factory balanced. No date was given on switchover.

I was also told that there "might be" an all-electric cartridge spindle on the horizon that goes to 24,000rpm...the problem is, this will be similar to the Chinese spindles for routers. Very little low-end torque and limited on lower end rpm (assume low end is 6-8000rpm).

[philbur]

Horses for courses, now there's a plausible argument for requiring 3 separate machines.

Phil

I had a conversation with an applications engineer at Tormach today and was given a few bits of information.

The cartridge spindle in the 770 is not the same size as the one in the 1100 (80mm). The bearings are smaller in the 770 and in a different stack configuration, thus being better suited to the high-speed increase. Not to mention the AC induction motor in the 770 is a 2-pole, versus the 4-pole motor in the 1100. Less poles, more speed, less torque. More poles, slower, more torque.

He said it would be possible to build an adapter to put the 770 spindle in the 1100. That leaves the upper pully in a position that needs to be addressed...evidently any misalignment has a magnified affect on the results.

The 770 spindle is better balanced than the 1100 spindle and the newer TTS tooling is pre-balanced to facilitate their use in the 770. I was told that the older TTS tooling was not factory balanced. No date was given on switchover.

I was also told that there "might be" an all-electric cartridge spindle on the horizon that goes to 24,000rpm...the problem is, this will be similar to the Chinese spindles for routers. Very little low-end torque and limited on lower end rpm (assume low end is 6-8000rpm).

[307startup]

As per usual, mum is the word on any "new" developments from Tormach, but I was told that any ventures in this department would be at least 2 years out.

In other words, don't hold your breath.

When I talked with the app engineer, I was told that several people (no amount given) have inquired as to a higher speed spindle cartridge for the Tormach. He said that it could be addressed, but wasn't likely to be unless the majority of current owners and future owners made the request. Again, this would be a long-term development, not an overnight design.

I told him that a basic replacement cartridge "upgrade" with a spindle rpm range up to 7500-8000 would be satisfactory for most users needs, beyond that the spindle speeder could fill our needs for smaller endmills needing higher rpms.

Basically I was told that the stock cartridge was good up to 6000 rpm, beyond that, balancing issues came into play and could (most likely would) be catastrophic.

Which would require special steel bearings to handle the speed increases (or hybrid ceramic bearings) and having all moving parts balanced. This might also require regrinding the spindle liner concentric with the newly assembled bearing packs.

An interesting aside, apparently the 770 spindle is assembled in a more "scientific" method than the 1100 spindle is currently done. I was told that the 1100 spindle is setup by feel at the factory, regarding adjusting the bearing preload, whereas the 770 spindle has a documented process.

This would not be a Tormach sanctioned upgrade, though I was told that Tormach encourages experimentation with the machine itself (to the detriment of voiding the factory warranty, and being at the tip of the spear, so to speak in development) and that Tormach could point an individual or group in the right/general direction, though no resources would be invested towards this type of experimentation. I took that to mean that one could probably be told what bearings would need to be considered, and what parts groups to be investigated for balancing. No specifics were given, even when asked if balancing should be performed to gram-level or lower. Best guess is that a bearings supplier should become your new best friend, and balancing ops performed akin to a performance turbocharger/turbine application. It was divulged that tolerances need to be extremely close, to avoid tolerance stacking deviations that would incur balance issues. I was told to keep a close eye on TIR during testing, as this is the cause to self-destructive harmonic tendencies at these higher rpms.