[HuFlungDung]

I'm just wondering if anyone else posting here has performed a retrofit installation of CamsoftCorp pc based cnc. There are supposed to be 7000 installations world wide, and I'd like to chat with other users about it. So, reply below if this pertains to you.

Thank you.

HFD

[hardmill]

Welcome to the forum.
Nice to have a neighbor on the board.

PEACE

[Bob Pierre]

I have been using CamSoft for a while and I now say I have a real appreciation for what they have done. I agree that their AS3000 drawing system is out of date, when compared to some of the solid modeling systems I have seen. They do have different levels of the AS3000 CAD/CAM system, even one with solids and 5 axis, but they are very expensive. When talking about their CNC Controllers, I think only that the CNC Professional version comes with Level-1, the 3D basic level. Their CNC Lite and CNC Plus version only offer G code input.

Their CNC Professional is very powerful, it far exceeded by expectations. It can control just about anything that moves. CNC or not. The standard package works fine and is pretty easy to setup and ready use right away. They even have complete diagnostics for automatic servo tuning built in. But since it's so open and flexible you can get your self in over your head if you start customizing things. The whole operator screen is customizable using bitmap images, their G and M codes are customizable and things like digital I/O programming are built right into the software. It's also very fast too.

I would say that in the beginning I had some trouble wiring my machine and I didn't get much help from CamSoft, but they did offer me a local guy that knew both their stuff and electrically wiring that offered to get me going. I ended up figuring out the wiring my self with their help. To be fair I have to say though that they are a nice group of guys on the phone. The people I speak with over there are very knowledgably and have helped me out when ever I needed them.

I would like to see them come out with a newer looking CAD/CAM interface, but their CNC controller is awesome and things like being able to write your own customer spindle threading routine isn't even possible in other systems.

I like it and would recommend it to others that really want to do it their own installation.

[HuFlungDung]

Hi Bob,

I'm glad to hear that you like it.

One thing I was thinking about the other day, but forgot to come here and post about it. I was reading about "outstanding machine crash stories" over at the mastercam forums. This reminded me of how I like the verification function that is part of the Camsoft GUI, that gives you an instant wireframe toolpath view generated from your nc code, so you can pick up on the more obvious blunders when doing some kinds of editing right at the machine.

I was thinking though, about retrofitting a mill using CNC professional and got to wondering how much of a pain is it going to be to wait for the Camsoft verification function to read through a big program while loading it up?

Suppose I wanted to load a 10 meg program, how long would that take? I only have a lathe set up right now, so I've never experienced much of a wait for any lathe program to load. Do you have any experience to relate about this?

Have you used the "smooth on" function for mill? How is it? Again, I find it nice for lathe, but the typical line segments I've been using are quite long, complete profiles, so that doesn't give it a real workout. I'd like to know that I'd really get what I'm imagining, so far as smooth mill performance on very short 3d segments, at higher feedrates.

[Bob Pierre]

HuFlungDung,

The CamSoft does give me an instant wireframe toolpath view generated from my G code, but it also does solid modeled real time animation too. If you have Level-5 of higher it will animate the tool cutting process before you press cycle start.

I had the CamSoft CNC Lite first than I upgraded to CNC Professional and I noticed that CNC Lite would load a program much faster of almost any size than CNC Professional. What I see on CNC Professional is that it makes a complete pass through the program once it loads to check for errors and calculate the part size so that it can automatically display a solid model of my block of material for the tool path simulation.

I would guess that 10 meg program would take a few minutes to load initially, but once loaded every other part runs much faster than even a Fanuc.

I think this would be excellent when using the "smooth on" function for a mill. Once loaded they have a FASTMODE feature that they say can cut 3,000 IPM even on huge programs with short line segments. I never cut this fast myself, but I have used their smooth feature for 3D splines and it does cut fast.

[HuFlungDung]

Thank you for your reply, Bob.

Did you ever work out a method of altering your Rapid speed "on the fly"? By this, I mean to actually change the Rapid speed when a Rapid move has already started? I know this is common on "real" CNC's, but it seemed like the Camsoft people never knew about it. I did develop a method, so I'm wondering if you did as well?

[DOD_don]

I hope you two guys don't mind if I jump in here. I need your help and you guys seem pretty knowledgeable on CamSoft. I work as a contactor for a large DOD plant and we have a few CamSoft systems here. Some were here before I arrived. The guys like them and we find their CNC systems more open and powerful than our Fanuc and Fagor controls. One of our big mills has Rapid override. We use a macro called [RAPID OVER RIDE UP] and [RAPID OVER RIDE DOWN] that we found in the MACRO.FIL file on the CamSoft CD. We can select from several different rapid speeds.

This is why I wrote. I have a need to control an actuator that has encoder feedback using the CamSoft CNC Professional. I know how to control axis motion using the GO command, but this actuator uses two relays to move the actuator in or out, not a servo or stepper. I have to position the actuator within a close tolerance and I know the CamSoft system has the power to do this by writing my own G codes or logic macros. My company is out of maintenance and doesn't have the money to resubscribe to support. The guys at CamSoft are great and they have still been helping me, but they say this is custom logic and would have to charge me. Would one of you may be able to help me?

Thanks

[HuFlungDung]

Hi DOD_don,

I'll do what I can to help. Its been a few months since I was heavy into this Camsoft logic, but I've got lots of written logic to refer to for ideas.

Usually, the logic sequence is not all that lengthy, so if you like, post whatever you might have developed so far, or we can do it privately, if you would prefer. Discuss the method you had in mind.

If we're successful, I'm going to twist your arm for a contribution to cnczone

Is this axis an electric rotary actuator, with a rotary encoder on it, driving a screw or what?

How fast does it move? Is it single speed or variable? Is the load constant throughout its cycle?

Are you looking for infinitely variable position control or two fixed positions?

How do you initialize or home the actuator on startup? Home switches? (A linear scale with an absolute index is very convenient to home).

Do you have limit switches on this axis?

Is simultaneous motion involved with any other axis?

I assume that you have a spare axis slot available from your motion card? I think you'd need it to get encoder data into the system.

What kind of motion card is it?

What version of CNC Professional are you running now?

That should get the ball rolling.

[HuFlungDung]

Our own forum! Thanks, Paul G

[camsoft]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the support. We have been watching the responses.

Just to show we're nice guys we are making up a dual relay controlled hydraulic or pneumatic actuator logic routine using encoder feedback available to all of our customers, in or out of maintenance. Please e-mail us [email protected] and mention the word Actuator in the subject line and we'll e-mail it to you.

Anyone can feel free to ask us any other questions directly at [email protected] also.

[cncadmin]

Originally posted by HuFlungDung
Our own forum! Thanks, Paul G

Ask and you shall recieve.

[HuFlungDung]

Hi Camsoft,

Hope you are still doing well. I hope this forum can be of benefit to you. I am still considering a re-retro fit application to a mill. Of course, I'll be using your CNC Professional software for this

I was hoping that when I joined the Camsoftcorp user's group, that there would have been some kind of a forum to bounce ideas and problems around. And here it is way over here!

[DOD_don]

Thanks guys

That did the trick. The custom routine works. I was able to modify the logic slightly to fit our needs myself. I really do appreciate all you've done for us. I will put in for another requisition for maintenance again. The department I work for may have a little left over in the budget when the governments year ends Sep 31.

[camsoft]

Your welcomed Don, we're glad we can help. Also Murray if that's you of course, thank you for starting the thread.

If there's any thing you would like to get correct detailed technical support on, any one is welcomed to use our [email protected] address.

Pretty much we will stay out of the chat unless we feel we need to get involved.

Take a look at the new CamSoft banner on the home page of CNC Zone that went up today.

[HillBilly]

Yes I have used Camsoft CNC controller software and had deja vu when I saw some of the post on this site. Some of the comments that hit close to heart were halfbaked, having someones working logic instead of the "bare nuts" examples and how
Camsoft insists certain things work fine when it's
obvious, to me anyway, they don't.

The last installation I preformed was on a Mazak
V-15 with a 30 tool magazine. When I finally got
the tool changer working with any consistantsy the last thing you wanted to do is put the control in diagnostics mode and try a tool change, if you have ever used this software chances are you know what I'm talking about.

The Camsoft concept is a great one and everything
has to start somewhere. It has been my experience with retrofitting with this software that is it
hard to match the original controls ability to
control the machine. I believe the maker or makers of this software would do the best job integrating it due to the lack of a information availible in
the manual.

Thanks to be part of this forum

[HuFlungDung]

Hi Hillbilly,

Welcome to the forums.

I'm saving the interfacing of a tool changer for my next retrofit

I understand what you are comparing, when you compare the operation of the CNC Professional to an original equipment controller.

I spent a huge amount of time creating inter-twined logic between all the I/O operator panel, and various Gcodes and M codes in order to make a machine that is safe to operate. I'm not talking about spending a mere weekend setting it up, either

This is what a person would normally pay a PLC programmer good dollars to set up: idiot protection "Well, of course, if you press that button while the program is running, of course, the spindle will stop but the axis will keep moving. Why would anyone press that button?"

[HillBilly]

Hi HFD & All,

I know where you are coming from when you say you spent alot of time. The speculated time, 3 days, of an average retrofit would be a very NASTY machine to operate.

Some of the things considered to be standard safety and operational features of any CNC control require much additional time to impliment.

I wish you luck on the upcoming tool changer and
would be glad to share my logic. Beware of the 150 maximum lines in a MACRO.Fil.

If I had it to do over I would use a seperate PLC to control the tool changer.

I forgot to mention in my first reply as to the loading and verifying of large files. You will find your MDI EDIT window gives out before you hit 10 meg but it still plots the tool path.

Thanks again for the ear

[Jim Cooper]

To Mr. Hillbilly,

I believe I can help you setting up your system. I want to be a dealer for CamSoft and I have the latest software and documentation. I have been doing this for years and I am pretty good at the CNC controller. I don't know much about their CAD/CAM system. They gave me 5 printed manuals. There must be 1,500 pages plus the CD has over 50 megs of text, movies and pictures and charts. My most recent version of CNC Professional has dozens of pre-written logic routines including 9 tool changers.

I know how to use the system and the diagnostic. I find the diagnostic tool far superior to the Fanuc and Fagor systems I have used. I will agree that the tool change logic routines are not cut and paste, but done of the other CNC controllers I have worked with even provided me with a template or example for my tool changer like CamSoft does. I have noticed that they do require customizing. I personal prefer CamSoft's approach of having the computer become the PLC, because I don't know PLC ladder logic.

I never ran the CNC Lite version but , if you have CNC Professional I believe a can write you a tool change routine and test it in their Desktop simulator then simply e-mail it to you. I do charge for this, but it is much easier than other systems I used and it should be pretty cheap. If you are interested all I need is a plain English description of how your tool changer works in a bulleted step by step list and I can do it from here.

[HillBilly]

Jim Cooper,

I have this tool changer working but do not like the performance.

I did this job for a customer when I was a Camsoft
installer.

Be warned the simulator does not see all the input
changes that will be happening in the real world and every time a input changes the logic file is run. This can build up very quickly if you have a 30 tool changer and have to look for a binary combination of switches. You can forget the WAITUNTIL command unless you dedicate a seperate input to each tool location.

Thanks Anyway

P.S. I prefer ladder logic!

[HuFlungDung]

HillBilly,

I was browsing my Camsoft manual, and noticed that they do recommend under certain conditions, that you are better off to use an "IF THEN" loop, rather than "WAITUNTIL".

Using the WAITUNTIL command stops the processing of any digital I/O states, or any other logic until the condition is satisfied.


On a different topic, how is the tool radius compensation system in Camsoft? I've never called this function on my lathe installation, and am wondering how well it works on mill? Any problems or praise?