[bowman1964]

Well mine finally arrived yesterday after a long wait. I thought I would share some pictures of my newest toy as I sat it up in my shop. I hope to get a plug today to actually power the motors tonight.

[bowman1964]

more pictures

[bowman1964]

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[gearhead dan]

Congrats, Bowman!
I've got some great mods to show off, but I just need to stop working them and take some pictures.
I'll post soon.

Gearhead Dan

[bowman1964]

well i have already been using mine. was really surprised how well it worked. i have been used to a bridgeport and i must say it ran smoother than the old bridgeport i was running. i still have to make a dro bracket and hook up the cnc. i did find its easier to adjust the bed with the stepper motor belt off so i can feal the drag better.

[gearhead dan]

Hey Bowman,
Good to hear you're happy with your system. Here are a few pics of mine. I couldn't keep my mits off it and had to do some mods. Fortunately these are simple things. I beefed up the bridge by replacing the flat stock with C channel. I also added a stronger upright. The most clever thing was to add a gas strut to both ends. This took the weight of the far end and helped to keep the mill head level. The effort to raise and lower the mill head is a fraction of what it was.

Gearhead Dan

[bowman1964]

Hey Bowman,
Good to hear you're happy with your system. Here are a few pics of mine. I couldn't keep my mits off it and had to do some mods. Fortunately these are simple things. I beefed up the bridge by replacing the flat stock with C channel. I also added a stronger upright. The most clever thing was to add a gas strut to both ends. This took the weight of the far end and helped to keep the mill head level. The effort to raise and lower the mill head is a fraction of what it was.

Gearhead Dan

great mod, i was looking at stiffening the back plate. the c channel is sure the best way to do it. i was going to stiffen the outer end with out pulling the entire plate. and add a angle to stiffen the head from back to front movement.
hey what color paint did you use? i was thinking it was close to safety blue like i use in my shop now. but i havent opened a can to check..

now that shock. do you think it helps on the outer end? i wonder if you can measure the deflection of the head with and with out to see if it does keep it more of a level head or not.

but i am impressed. great work.

[gearhead dan]

Hey Bowman,
That is Safety Blue. Good call. I thought about using a piece of angle iron too, until I happened upon that chunk of C channel. The angle would work too, no doubt. As it is, that flat stock is more like a leaf spring, so adding any amount of rigidity is a huge plus.
On the gas strut. I went a bit crazy figuring that one out. I ended up leveling the whole machine so I could get a reference point of where the mill head should be. I then put a block under the Z axis screw and leveled the mill head by using the Z axis screw itself. You can easily dial in the levelness this way. I leveled off of the pulley since this is the only good flat surface on the mill head. Once I got the mill head leveled I threw a scale (like the one in your bathroom) under the end of the bridge head and gently wedged a stick in there. I then let off on the Z axis and watched as the scale took on the weight. I got about 125 lbs with my setup. To get a sense of the deflection I again leveled off the mill head and then tightened up on the bridge head hold down. I then let off on the Z axis so the hold down took all the weight. I marked the position of the bridge before and after I loosened the hold down. It drops a substantial amount. The sag also registered on the level.
So...after I added the gas strut I did the same measurements and I got no sag. It also doesn't raise it either, so I think I got it right with a 125 strut.
I'm guessing that with the stock setup about 70-80 lbs is what is hanging out on the end of that bridge head. If you consider this strut idea go and check out McMaster Carr. They have a great assortment of struts with travel/weight charts. They go for around $19.

Gearhead Dan

[bowman1964]

dan,
well i like how you went about checking the deflection. good idea there. i am going to mount a piece of 5 x 2 box tubing i have on the back of mine from the motor out and run a box tube from the top of the factory support to the rear corning of the table. i noticed alot of flex if you pulled it foward and back.
i have my dro mounted on a adjustable arm i had. and did get the cnc up and tested the movement last night.
i am thinking about adding the limit switches.... what are you doing concerning using or not using the limit switch?

i am going with your idea on the stut.great idea there. will help alot in keeping the head straight.

[aisrad]

Dan, good idea on the struts. Just to make sure I understand. From the photos it appears you put a struct under both ends. Where they both 125 lbs gas struts?

andy

[gearhead dan]

Bowman, I see your vision. I like it. Its a good use of the existing material to bolster that top end. It will add alot of rigidity for sure.

Andy, both struts are rated at 125 lbs. Adding the one on the near end to the columns takes some of the weight off of that acme screw. For the stock setup do consider a lower weight strut.

For the limit switches I will definitely go with them. I got a great tip from Dan at Camtronics (the designer of our cnc system). He suggested mounting the limit/homing switches on magnets so that they can be moved around from the mill to the lathe. i haven't gotten that far yet, as I'm still waiting on my computer. He advised mounting the switches to a piece of aluminum plate and securing this to a magnet.

I'm interested to know how the software download went for Mach III. From the manual it sounds like there's alot of things that can go wrong. I've also realized why the ball screws are a good investment for the CNC setup. Silly me to think that the DRO would be providing feeding back to the CNC controller...you have to own the big expensive bridgeports for this feature.

I'm currently working on a really nice upgrade mount for the Z axis glass scale. I'm almost finished with it and will add pictures soon. it has been a great first project for the Patriot. So far I couldn't be more pleased with how its performing.

Gearhead Dan

[bowman1964]

i have been playing with the cnc in mach, its alot to learn.
yea i noticed my cnc box appeared to be from camtronics. i ordered a tachometer for mine.
o one thing you should know. it will not cut threads yet. the machines are missing a encoder to measure the spindle speed. john told me this and says they will be shipped as soon as he gets them.i think they are coming from dan.
i may just order my limit switches from dan ,proberly just as cheap. and yes good idea on the magnets for limits. i am thinking i would need 4 anywaysfor the mill.2 for x 2 for y. so i dont see having to move them.

[bowman1964]

well between working and my yard and other things i did get some things done on the machine this weekend.

i made a nice adjustable swing out DRO mount.like the dentist style lights you can grab it and position it where you can see the best.and routed all the cables. but i found by rounting the cables you end up being short getting to the cnc box.sooooo i decied to take some aluminium sheet i had and brake me an new box.

so i now have a new cover on the end you can see, and a new place to mount my cnc controls.
i have a new QCTP to mount after i drill the factory compound post to accept it.
i have the metal to do the bridge plate stiffening just need to find the time.

also added a new power switch on the front and did some labeling.

added a thick oak shelf to place some things under the machine

anyways here is some pictures.

[dgapilot]

I started with magnets for limit switches and didn't like it. If you cut steel or other magnetic materials, the swarf clings to the magnets and is a pain. I went with adjustable ramps that I can position based on my set up. Seems to work good so far. I used one switch for X and one for Y, Each mounted on the carraige with a piece of aluminum angle attached to where the DRO scale would go (I don't have a DRO), the ramps then slide on the angle and get locked wherever I want. The one switch on each axis provides + limit, - limit, and home. The Z axis has 2 switches. This is on a Bridgemill. Hope this helps

[bowman1964]

I started with magnets for limit switches and didn't like it. If you cut steel or other magnetic materials, the swarf clings to the magnets and is a pain. I went with adjustable ramps that I can position based on my set up. Seems to work good so far. I used one switch for X and one for Y, Each mounted on the carraige with a piece of aluminum angle attached to where the DRO scale would go (I don't have a DRO), the ramps then slide on the angle and get locked wherever I want. The one switch on each axis provides + limit, - limit, and home. The Z axis has 2 switches. This is on a Bridgemill. Hope this helps

i have limit switches on order myself, and total agree with the problem you have. i was thinking about using thicker aluminium on the brackets to help shield the magnets from swarf sticking.
i attached my x stepper cover with magnets and do expect to have that trouble. but i will deal with it since i would rather have my stepper covered. i didnt understand why it wasnt covered from the factory.but i am not complaining i like to fine tune everything myself anyways.

[bowman1964]

well have some good news and bad.

good news i found the machines limits...bad is there is too much movement in mill head. i was machining a piece of metal lastnight that wasnt so hard but i was pushing the feed rate. i pushed it hard enough i had the end mill jam and stop the motor.bent the 1/2" end mill. i was running it like a bridgeport i used to run ,but the head was vibrating all over the place. it finnally just jumped and took too much of a bite of metal.
now i was doing something that was over the limits of the machine.but i did see where the weak spots are so there is always some good to come of it. the bridge has too much movement for what i was doing and vibrating. so i am working with heavy 2 " box tubing to create a support frame at the back to take some of the flex out.
and before anyone thinks i am bashing the machine....let me say i love this thing. it has so much to offer. and i didnt go wrong ordering it.

i am working a few hours a night but hope to have some pictures by end of the week.

also my optical sensor came in for the spindle reader. i should have it cutting threads buy the end of the weekend.
ordered a rpm readout ,and limit switches from camtronics also it should be in friday.

[grandscale]

Congrats on your new purchase! It looks to be a very nice machine and I can understand why you're excited to make improvements right away.

However, It's possible that the head reinforcement was designed to match up with the performance to other components (i.e. bearings, bushings, etc.) so they will not be damaged as the result of loads exceeding their design. You might want to consult Mr. Taylor at Shopmaster before going too far.

Just a thought.

[Bloy2004]

I have the older machine...but the principle still applies.
It might also be a good idea to add some lateral bracing to the bridge support.
I found that this is where most of the "flex" appears when loading the spindle.
Here's a pic of what I did besides adding a hefty "angle" bar behind the bridge
plate to stiffen. My bridge support is by no means the best, but it sure stablized the mill head.


Thanks....

[bowman1964]

very nice bloy, proberly the stiffest one i have seen on a shop master.

i am making one simerlar but... it will also tie to the quadlift head itself.
if my design works it will make the entire head non flexing or being able to twist. i am building a box type support running across the back of the entire machine. and i hope to also use it to hang some clear material to keep the chips and coolant in the tray.

i had spoken to jt before on this and his stand is the cost to add steel causing the price to get to the point they dont sell as well. which i totally understand.

[bowman1964]

well i got some of the mock up done.i have a couple of poor pics i took with my phone.
you will notice i am using 2" box tubing for the main frame.it will tie to the base of the table and top of the machine.i am placing braces to keep it from flexing in all directions.i am hoping when i have it completed it will only leave the quill and quad lift head to blame for backlash.
the one piece of 2 1/2" uprite tubing shown next to the factory uprite is tow bar tubing 1/4 wall , very heary on its own.the extra mass of the frame should dampen the virbrations too i am hoping.