[photomankc]

Good to know. I will give your suggestion a try. I have not been getting the weight off of it when adjusting.

On another note... Your tram aid idea was great! I'm LOVEING those!

[machinechick]

I'm glad those tram aids are working for you. They sure do make it easier. My machine actually came with the one on the right hand side from the factory. I just decided to copy it and put it on the other side too! I keep dreaming of some type of rack or a worm screw to make it super quick, but there really doesn't seem to be enough room. How's your motor working? Is the new controller better?

[photomankc]

Oh yeah, they beat the snot out of: "Hammer on it, check. Hammer on it, check. Oops, too far. Hammer on the other side, check." Took me all of 2 minutes to get it trammed up.

On the controller... tough to say, The speeds all seem to be right. Amusingly I did have to switch the motor leads since FWD was turning the cutter in the wrong direction but that was no big deal. It does have smoother accel than it used to. Used to just slam into speeds unless you very slowly turned it up. Now it's much smoother ramping up to speed.

I made some quick cuts to check it out and all seems to be good. As long as it doesn't pull that up-and-die routine again I'm happy.

[photomankc]

Good news and bad news I think.

Good news. Working the gib down deeper in the manor mentioned above did reduce the problem and makes it more like 0.0025" over 7" out of whack with tram unlocked vs locked. That's improvement. The mushy feel was reduced. Two strips of AL foil got the Y tramed to 0.001" over 7" so that's great.

The bad news. The problem is still present to some extent. Now the head seems to rock back and forth as each lock is tightend instead of only moving when the top is locked. If they are not tightened then the Z position can be shoved out by a couple thou and stick there. Tough to explain maybe but instead of springing back when you push it, it will instead spring back 1 or 2 thousanths shy of the starting point. I'm going to dye the surface of the gib to see if that can tell me anything. I did give it a couple of trys to see if anything changed.

Another good thing... The casting is not warping when I lock the gib, it's the carriage moving. I tested by DTI mounted on the column and you get a solid 0.010" plus of movement when you lock it. DTI mounted to the head indicating on the same point on the carriage shows no movement so it can't be buldging out or anything. I may post some video soon to see if anyone has ideas. The way it's moving has me scratching my head a little to understand what's at play.

This stuff aside, me and the mill are going to get along well. Spent tonight working on some stock to make a replacement for the plastic quill DRO arm. I think that flexy bit of plastic is the cause of the scale reading being off when you change direction of movement. I want to try a metal replacement and see if that helps. It may not.

Anyway this sucker just chews right through some good size cuts with just a nice hum. Taking care to lock the Z after each move I was able to hit my marks to within 0.001" on the calipers so I'm happy. No humps between adjacent tracks when surfacing. Stock is all sqaured up and worked to dimension so now I just need to drill some rather long holes into it. It's a fun machine to work with.

[machinechick]

Well I am getting kinda old and forget stuff, last night I remembered that when I adjusted the gib on the z axis one of the things I did (in addition to resting the head on the block) was after the head on block adjustment, I might of loosened the bottom screw 1/2 to 1/4 turn and at the same time raised the head up with the handwheel and turned down on the upper screw then thightened the lower screw snug. The whole adjustment process was kinda fiddly, then all at once everything was pretty close to perfect and it stayed that way (after about a year of constant use it's starting to seem like it could use another adjust)
It might be easier to do alot of this without the head on the z saddle, I did it with the head on because lifting that head on and off isn't so easy for me (weight wise and even when put on a wood block getting all the extra bolts I put on my head make it kinda a fiddly thing).
I trust that you can see most of the issues your running into don't require major machining reworks but are just minor mechanical adjustments, you just have to figure out what to adjust, which isn't so easy sometimes.
For example, there's a couple screws that hold the z-axis saddle to the leadscrew nut, if they get loosened which might have happened with all your machines been through: the disassembly, adjustments, transits etc., might be cause that slight movement your referring to, just a thought!
Glad to hear stuffs starting to come together!

[photomankc]

The mill has been used to make it's first replacement part for itself. The block that mounts the quill DRO to the spindle sleeve looked kinda crappy to me. It seemed to allow some rocking between the quill and the the scale because I noticed that the quill DRO always had most of its problems when changing directions. It would never agree with a DTI in the spindle about the distance traveled and I could not repeat a position if I retracted and came back to it. Pulling the plastic mount block off I saw that:

A.) the holes are hugely oversized with some kind of staking to make them tighter and the end result is a nearly hollow mount. Can't think why the clearance holes need to be that big.

B.) The tapped holes on the quill were raised at the rims quite a bit, but I doubt that mattered with the size of the clearance holes in the block.

I figured replacing that with an AL mount couldn't hurt anything. First, I filed down the raised edges of the tapped holes till they were flush with the rest of the mounting flat on the spindle sleeve. Next I worked down a 3/4" thick block of AL to the required dimensions. That went well and as long as I lock the Z and quill when cutting it was easy to hit the numbers so the problems are livable till I can figure out what's the issue with the Z.

Now I went ahead and made much smaller clearance holes, about 0.012" over the screw diameter but of course drilling 1.6" holes that deep was... entertaining. For one thing I will add a card to the mill that reminds me to double check my drawbar and chuck for proper tightness. My stupid self left the chuck hand-tight and that didn't work real good past 0.500". A little cursing at myself and some pecking past 1/2 inch and the holes were drilled.

Cleaned it up and remounted with the new block and now my quill DRO seems quite usable finally. It does work best after the first 0.010" of movement. Prior to that there is some error but if you zero it there and move from that point every time then it works great and properly indicates with the DTI both up and down. No flexing or rocking.

Not a terribly interesting part but very useful. For most milling I think the Z handwheel is easy enough to use so I still plan to add a scale to Z.

Pics:
1 - Original part
2-4 - Replacement part.
5 - Drawing

[machinechick]

I really liked the photos of your spindle, it seems that there's a couple of different R8 spindle 'styles' floating about. Kinda interesting since the Chinese usually seem to get everything from the same central source and just paint things different colors. Your version seems to allow for more Z-clearance than the version from Grizzly. (I might be wrong about the differences I have the MT2 version thats common in Europe) I just wanted to mention, that sometimes I think you might find using the fine feed on the quill when your milling not to be a bad option. It was really beat into my head never to do that, that quills were for drilling, but after seeing so many people in Europe use the quill that way on European sites, and being in a spot where it was just down right convient one time I decided to do it and found that for small cuts its down right helpful, esp. with the little readout (use it like that more than I think I really should now, but never had it cause trouble). I think you'll find too that you don't have to go all gorrilla on the quill clamp either to get it to stay in place (not saying that you do that), it will stay in place with just a good firm snugging up. By the way nice job on the readout spacer!

[mattbesquare]

yeah that is the same quill i have and the same issue. changing directions and it moves and the reading is off. I have yet to rely on my quill reading. I was thinking of supporting the readout as you had, then supporting the movement with a cheap linear bearing i got from ebay..then screwing on a 10.00 digital caliper for a decently accurate reading.

does that make sense? I have had a few too bears...

[mattbesquare]

I really liked the photos of your spindle, it seems that there's a couple of different R8 spindle 'styles' floating about. Kinda interesting since the Chinese usually seem to get everything from the same central source and just paint things different colors. Your version seems to allow for more Z-clearance than the version from Grizzly. (I might be wrong about the differences I have the MT2 version thats common in Europe) I just wanted to mention, that sometimes I think you might find using the fine feed on the quill when your milling not to be a bad option. It was really beat into my head never to do that, that quills were for drilling, but after seeing so many people in Europe use the quill that way on European sites, and being in a spot where it was just down right convient one time I decided to do it and found that for small cuts its down right helpful, esp. with the little readout (use it like that more than I think I really should now, but never had it cause trouble). I think you'll find too that you don't have to go all gorrilla on the quill clamp either to get it to stay in place (not saying that you do that), it will stay in place with just a good firm snugging up. By the way nice job on the readout spacer!

hey chick, you ever get your rf45? just wondering, I have the z axis powered up now so i dont have to crank as much. that is nice. but going to build nicer adapters for the xy to get in my new screws along with the final conversion. (I messed up my nuts..so just going with what i had laying around-i know how much you love those C1 ball scerws....

[mattbesquare]

Machinechick's tram aids are now installed. And my head is back from repair and mounted up on the mill again! Looks like the mill is back in business again! Time to tram it up and get my vice moved over.

genious. I am going to copy this too. Thanks machinechick. now I need to stop drunk posting.

jhave a great night all.

[machinechick]

Another thing to try with the dro quill on these machines is to utilize the adjustment screws than are present on the reader head to make sure their isn't excessive slop in reader/scale movement. Another adjustment that may be needed: the reader itself is held in the head casting by four set screws. If the reader head is flopping about ,is at an angle, or not parallel to the quill, the reading won't be as accurate as it could be in an (more) ideal situation.

[photomankc]

matt: For the time invested in dimensioning some stock and drilling two holes I think this works great. It will certainly be accurate enough for my purposes. I think a clamp collar mount/spacer would be better but this seems to work fine.

machinechick: I did this because I wanted to be able to use the quill at least a little bit when milling too. If I need to take it down a few thou I'd rather turn the little dial up front than reach up to the crank. Still, I can get great results with the crank and that's one less variable to deal with if the quill is locked in it's 0 position. It just bothered the heck out of me to have the scale there but not be able to really count on it. Options.... I like having them.

I concur on checking out the mount of the DRO in the head too. At first mine was loose but I fixed that early on. That still didn't take care of the 'loose' readings when changing directions. Another thing to check is to make sure it's not cocked left/right. With 4 set screws its not hard to have it leaning somewhat to one side or the other.

[photomankc]

Been busy on a couple projects. One is getting a 4 jaw drilled to mount onto my rotary table and making an extra chuck key for it. Those are done.


The other is designing and making the mount to put the scale on the Z axis. As usual, it's not as dead simple as it seemed at first. I'm going to slot most of my connections to leave ample adjustment for getting it all into the same plane. I've been working on the saddle mount this weekend and have the basic shape done and need to finish off the edges now. Going to be a fairly stout hunk of metal.

I won't go much further till I have the actual scale in hand and modeled up. I have to say that I have found it easy to keep within 0.001 on this machine so long as I don't flub a measurement. Helps that I'm not having to do mental math on the handwheel all the time too.

The X DRO has really been handy, so I can't wait to get it all outfitted on the other axis.

[photomankc]

Been working more on modeling up the Z axis. think I have a setup that will work. I'll take a second look when my eyes aren't burning before I start cutting metal.

[photomankc]

Made some progress this weekend. Damnit though if I don't always manage one cock-up somewhere along the line. I forgot the offset for the edge finder on the Y axis when I drilled the starter holes for the scale mounting slots. So I offset the whole thing .100" high. I guess I should be glad I caught it before I cut the second slot. I would have really been ticked to scrap the whole part.

I don't like this scale as well as the X axis one I bought. I need to find another like that one for my Y. This one is much less nicely made and it always zeros on power on, and defualts to MM no mater what the last setting was. It'll do though.

[photomankc]

Z axis parts are complete. All that's left now is to get it test fitted to the machine and get the holes drilled. From holding it up to the column and head I think I can clear the gib handles and mount it to the right hand side of the mill. That will be a better arrangement than mounting to the left I think.

[photomankc]

Test fit seems to indicate that it's a go! If I get ambitious I may start drilling tonight.

I think it may have cost about 1/8" of travel at the top but I don't want the display any lower on the saddle than that and the higher you raise it past this point the more travel it costs. On the left side it would cost nothing in travel but that would be less convienient to view but not a concern if there were a remote display.

[metalworkz]

It looks pretty good, only a bit of interference by the quill handles.

Regards,

[photomankc]

Drilled and tapped the mounting holes. Man, the bondo is thick on this sucker. I'm going to need to get that knocked off the mounting pads eventually. It really gave me fits getting the crappy little scale to work because of course the bondo is not flat so it's imparting some twists to things that had to be worked out. Wasn't thnking of that. The scale would go nuts every time I locked down the ruler portion and it's pretty iffy without any stress anyway. If I ever see anyone selling a vertical version of that nice one I have for the X axis I'll snap it up instantly. I'd have to machine a new rear mounting plate for it but that's a relatively easy part.

[photomankc]

It looks pretty good, only a bit of interference by the quill handles.

Regards,

Thanks!

In operation it's really not bad at all. I don't think I'll need to crain around to see it really. If I could have gotten it a hair higher without cutting travel I'd have liked to but this should work.