[keen]

keen,

I take it from your description that you are using a mechanical means to synchronize the spindle rotation with the cutter movement?

bob

Hi Bob. The means to synchronize as above is what I refer to 'pitch generating technology' it is new and unique and is a key adavantage of this machine. It is nz patent pending but still I think it would be unwise to disclose it at this stage.

[keen]

Are there thread milling bits so you can do this on a CNC mill?
I thought this kind of thread machining was normal just like using taps.

Hi daman.

Can you elaborate please - I am not quite sure what you mean, cheers.

[rowbare]

Hi Bob. The means to synchronize as above is what I refer to 'pitch generating technology' it is new and unique and is a key adavantage of this machine. It is patent pending but still I think it would be unwise to disclose it at this stage.

What I am getting at is if you are doing this mechanically, you probably have something new, unique and patentable (and really cool to boot). If you are doing it electronically, in all likelihood you don't.

If you are doing it electronically, then 'pitch generating technology' is effectively slaving and synchronizing the movement of the cutter to the axis rotation and that is nothing new. It is used for rigid tapping and rigid peck tapping (with synchronization) on mills and all CNC lathe threading operations whether using a fixed tool or a live tool. Pretty much any CNC machine controller software can do this.

Whatever form your pitch generating technology takes, you have done a brilliant job of putting it together in a compact, lightweight and, dare I say, unique tool.

Congrats

bob

[BobWarfield]

Cool invention. I gave you a plug over on CNCCookbook.

Seems like your most important challenge is to find the market that really needs your machine. I was trying to think of markets that need to cut lots of threads with flexibility, but that won't already have that capability by virtue of lathes or CNC mills sitting around.

I'm not sure, for example, machine shops would need this gadget.

Plumbers and pipe fitters clearly cut a lot of threads. Presumably there are others too. The interesting question is whether they will prefer this device to their taps and dies.

Cheers,

BW

[307startup]

This is where I find it to be the most useful...in shops where there isn't CNC equipment (yes, there are still those out there)...and avoiding the expense of purchasing and replacing taps and dies for every thread you might conceivably need to cut.

I personally only tap up to .5", after that I thread mill. But for a situation where I need to thread something, I don't want to have to change out a back gear to cut a metric thread. This tool would be great for my purposes for that, and I don't have to find floor space for another lathe. I can place this on a bench I already have.

My personal belief is that dies are more for chasing than actually threading. I have never understood going through the effort to load a workpiece into a lathe, and then using a die to generate the thread form. About as efficient as filling the bathtub before you use the shower

Cool invention. I gave you a plug over on CNCCookbook.

Seems like your most important challenge is to find the market that really needs your machine. I was trying to think of markets that need to cut lots of threads with flexibility, but that won't already have that capability by virtue of lathes or CNC mills sitting around.

I'm not sure, for example, machine shops would need this gadget.

Plumbers and pipe fitters clearly cut a lot of threads. Presumably there are others too. The interesting question is whether they will prefer this device to their taps and dies.

Cheers,

BW

[agapios]

hi

very nise machine!

pipe threads machine is that you mast chase!
is a old technology. with your machine the end is coming for them!
you can have 2 vershions:1 for pipe threads with big pipe holder
and 1 for normal threads.


Agapios

[krutch]

Wish you luck with you idea. It looks to be a dedicated machine. This promisses to be a time saver, at least in some types of work. You might investigate as to making this as an attachment also. I like the suggestion about pipe threads, too.

Krutch

[keen]

What I am getting at is if you are doing this mechanically, you probably have something new, unique and patentable (and really cool to boot). If you are doing it electronically, in all likelihood you don't.

If you are doing it electronically, then 'pitch generating technology' is effectively slaving and synchronizing the movement of the cutter to the axis rotation and that is nothing new. It is used for rigid tapping and rigid peck tapping (with synchronization) on mills and all CNC lathe threading operations whether using a fixed tool or a live tool. Pretty much any CNC machine controller software can do this.

Whatever form your pitch generating technology takes, you have done a brilliant job of putting it together in a compact, lightweight and, dare I say, unique tool.

Congrats

bob

Hi Bob - I understand you now. Many thanks

[keen]

[QUOTE=BobWarfield;769600]Cool invention. I gave you a plug over on CNCCookbook.

Seems like your most important challenge is to find the market that really needs your machine. I was trying to think of markets that need to cut lots of threads with flexibility, but that won't already have that capability by virtue of lathes or CNC mills sitting around.

I'm not sure, for example, machine shops would need this gadget.

Plumbers and pipe fitters clearly cut a lot of threads. Presumably there are others too. The interesting question is whether they will prefer this device to their taps and dies.

Cheers,

Hi BW. Thanks for the cnc cookbook plug! It needs all the exposure it can get!

Yes you are right, I need to find the best market for this machine - only then can I best taylor the design/supply/introduction/sale/etc

Cheers

[keen]

This is where I find it to be the most useful...in shops where there isn't CNC equipment (yes, there are still those out there)...and avoiding the expense of purchasing and replacing taps and dies for every thread you might conceivably need to cut.

I personally only tap up to .5", after that I thread mill. But for a situation where I need to thread something, I don't want to have to change out a back gear to cut a metric thread. This tool would be great for my purposes for that, and I don't have to find floor space for another lathe. I can place this on a bench I already have.

My personal belief is that dies are more for chasing than actually threading. I have never understood going through the effort to load a workpiece into a lathe, and then using a die to generate the thread form. About as efficient as filling the bathtub before you use the shower

Hi 307 startup. Yes it takes up very little room and any pitch thread can be set and cut very quickly. I think you are saying that compact may be more important than portable ....

I agree with you about dies. Often a softer material than is ideal is chosen because of the die/thread cutting challenge - thread milling is a much lighter machining process. I would add large taps to that - especially if the work is difficult to hold.

[keen]

hi

very nise machine!

pipe threads machine is that you mast chase!
is a old technology. with your machine the end is coming for them!
you can have 2 vershions:1 for pipe threads with big pipe holder
and 1 for normal threads.


Agapios

Thanks Agapios - Pipe threads you think....Yes that makes sense. I know little of this sector but I can imagine large pipes would be difficult to hold when cutting - thread milling is a far lighter loaded cutting process...

Do you have specific knowledge of this sector?...

[keen]

Wish you luck with you idea. It looks to be a dedicated machine. This promisses to be a time saver, at least in some types of work. You might investigate as to making this as an attachment also. I like the suggestion about pipe threads, too.

Krutch

Hi Krutch. Yes it is simple and small and so potentially low cost - this better allows a dedicated application....pipe threads coming up again.....

Cheers

[keen]

Re pipe threads - anyone know the main size range for common pipe threads?

[307startup]

[307startup]

The size range isn't important, the shared taper provides commonality. The most common pipe threads are 1/16" pipe through 2" pipe. However there are larger AND smaller.

Re pipe threads - anyone know the main size range for common pipe threads?

[agapios]

Thanks Agapios - Pipe threads you think....Yes that makes sense. I know little of this sector but I can imagine large pipes would be difficult to hold when cutting - thread milling is a far lighter loaded cutting process...

Do you have specific knowledge of this sector?...

hi
I im mechanical engineer so I have sum knowledge in this sector.

Your machin is very simular with pipe thred machines.
the problem with this thread cutting method is that to produs a quality thread, mast the axys of the cutting tool to be vertically with the thread slope.
a pipe thread is not necessary to be accuracy.
so that is a reason to make pipe thread.

(I make devils lawyer! )

A question keen: your patend is the pace genereitor. why must be a new thread machine and don't replece the gear box for the threads on a lath with you machine?

pipe thread is tha 1 (new product, with lot of problem to solve)
and replace gear box the 2

two aspects of you machine.

[keen]

hi
I im mechanical engineer so I have sum knowledge in this sector.

Your machin is very simular with pipe thred machines.
the problem with this thread cutting method is that to produs a quality thread, mast the axys of the cutting tool to be vertically with the thread slope.
a pipe thread is not necessary to be accuracy.
so that is a reason to make pipe thread.

(I make devils lawyer! )

A question keen: your patend is the pace genereitor. why must be a new thread machine and don't replece the gear box for the threads on a lath with you machine?

pipe thread is tha 1 (new product, with lot of problem to solve)
and replace gear box the 2

two aspects of you machine.

Hi agapios. I think you are asking why is my machine better than a lathe with a gearbox. A lathe with a gearbox is complex, expensive and heavy. My machine is simple,low cost to manufacture and light.

Also pipe thread machines need a chaser for every pitch thread - (but maybe there are not many pitches) ? can you post that information....
Anyway my machine uses a single cutter because the pitch and depth is adjustable.

[TomB]

Hi agapios. I think you are asking why is my machine better than a lathe with a gearbox. A lathe with a gearbox is complex, expensive and heavy. My machine is simple,low cost to manufacture and light.

Also pipe thread machines need a chaser for every pitch thread - (but maybe there are not many pitches) ? can you post that information....
Anyway my machine uses a single cutter because the pitch and depth is adjustable

.

I think Apapois may have been asking about a different consideration and had just compared it to big pipe threading for illustration. Since I also wondered about this effect but had not taken the time to calculate its size, I'll try to rephrase the question that I think was in Agapios' mind. A thread is a helix so at the point where the cutter contacts the stock the 'thread to be' will be advancing into the cutter along the cutter's rotation axis, while the cut thread leaves on the same axis. Unless cutter is angled to match the thread pitch angle or the cutter has concave, i.e. involuted sides , the cutter part that got into and exits the stock will undercut the sides of the thread. The cross section of the resulting thread will not be triangular. The undercut amount may be unnoticable or it may be significant, that is what I did not calculate. I think Apapois might be referring to large single cutter pipe threading, feet of diameter not small size plumbing threading, where he knows the amount of undercut is geometrically significant but functionally insignificant.

Just thinking casually it seems that it may be possible to eliminate or nearly eliminate the cutting error if the axis of the cutter is aligned at a right angle to the thread pitch instead of the stock axis, but that means the adjustment for different pitch threads is more complex than just matching the cutter lead per stock revolution to the pitch. Adding that correction could add quite a bit of cost to the machine design. Trying to make the same correction by making the cutter sides concave leads theoretically to a different cutter for every thread pitch. However, maybe a few styles would suffice as one cutter could handle a range of pitches. (This is the case with gear hobs that have similar cutting effects.)

Tom

[mactec54]

Hi TomB

The thread cutting part on Keens machine, is the same as you would get if you cut the thread on a CNC mill, with the cutter going around the part, & the pitch being controlled by the cnc machines programed Zaxes

[TomB]

[

QUOTE=mactec54;770379]Hi TomB

The thread cutting part on Keens machine, is the same as you would get if you cut the thread on a CNC mill, with the cutter going around the part, & the pitch being controlled by the cnc machines programed Zaxes

[/QUOTE]

That is not exactly true. If you cut the thread with a single point cutting bit then the mill would be cutting just like a lathe and obviousily there would be no thread distortions. But in the Keen machine it is not a single point cutter. Just to see the diffference imagine cutting a 4-40 thread with a cutter that is 12 inches in diameter. From the perspective of .112" diameter stock a 12" diameter cutter looks like a straight trangular file. If you just file straight across a thread you see how the threads get cut. But change the angle of the file to match the pitch of the thread and things are not nearly so distructive. It is that type of geometery that I was thinking about and I think it was also the geometery that Agapois was asking about.

As I indicated I have no idea where on the scale that goes from 0" diamater single point tool to infinite inch diameter straight file, the resultant thread goes out of tolerance. But I know at some point the cutting process falls apart.