[1HobbyMachinist]

Sometimes things just pass you by, and you don't notice until much later...

When I bought my Enco rf45 clone, I already had a good bit of tooling for my X2. So naturally I used it. One of the things is a 4" vise from LMS. Not once in the several years I've been running my 45 did I ever think the vice might be a little small for the mill. Not until now anyway...

It suddenly dawned on me that this vice might not offer sufficient rigidity for the kind of cuts I've been doing lately. (Mostly machining grey cast iron into various shapes that I'm attempting to hand scrape into master surfaces)
In addition to that, I feel like I need two vises for some of the angled straight edges I'm going to have to make.

That's when I realized I have no idea what size vise guys are running on these mid size mills. So any tips would be appreciated.
Just in my own looking around, I've found this 6" vise from Shars:
shars.com - 6quot 660U CNC Milling Machine Vise 00004quot
The things I like about it are the uni-body design and the ability to mount it on it's side. Flexibility is good, and so is rigidity
What I don't like about it is the price, especially since I will probably order two, but I haven't found anything else that offers similar things for less.

At any rate, any feedback would be much appreciated especially since this is going to turn into a somewhat costly investment.

Thanks,
Mike

[ma1]

I am running a 6" vise with 6.5" opening, fits the machine nicely. I didn't think about it first, and bought the $140 grade vise with rotary base (you can find at various vendors). I now realize that I should have spent 100 more dollars
and bought a better grade. This one works, but not the best clamping force.
If I had money now, I would go with a Glacern , or one of the nice ones at shars.com for <$250. If you have more money, Kurt, Parlec, etc. Make sure
you get one with a large opening, it really comes handy.

The one you found looks nice, but for that money you can get a Kurt.

[dugpits]

Well, for the unibody design you'll probably have to pay up more $$$ or look and wait for a good deal to show up.

I've got one like I'm linking below, but in the 4" since I'm on a smaller machine. Mine seems pretty nice and I think the tolerances listed are at least pretty close. Heck of a lot cheaper than the unibody - you could get 3 of these for 1 unibody design. I would wonder whether the unibody is really THAT much better... Both are relatively heavy at around 80lbs - and if the specs are actually correct the unibody has a clamping force of 8000lbs and the cheaper model has 10000lbs.

Just my couple cents worth...

6" ANG-LOCK CNC VISE FOR CNC/BRIDGEPORT MILLING MACHINE-NEW | eBay

Good luck whatever you choose-

Doug

[1HobbyMachinist]

Well it looks like 6" is the size I need. Some of the 8" vises I've looked at are just HUGE!

dugpits thanks for the link. I admit it make sense cost wise, hell I could buy 3 at that price! I'll just have to keep looking for a bit to see if I can satisfy the brat in me. If not, that vice looks pretty good.

[1HobbyMachinist]

Well, I decided to throw reason to the wind and cautiously order my new vises.



I'm so glad I did too! The mill sounds much quieter during cuts with the larger vises. Now with the 3 sine vises I bought a month ago, and the new 36" deep kiln I ordered, I'll be able to make the straight edges I need to rescrape my mills.

I'll also be machining a new saddle for my X2 soon.

[ninefinger]

Are those the Shars 660U vises you linked to in your first post? If so how do find them? I need at least one 6" vise for my machine (been getting by with a 4" but I hit its clamping limits all the time..). That vise looks like an OK deal.

Mike

[1HobbyMachinist]

Are those the Shars 660U vises you linked to in your first post? If so how do find them? I need at least one 6" vise for my machine (been getting by with a 4" but I hit its clamping limits all the time..). That vise looks like an OK deal.

Mike

Yes they are, Mike. I considered buying a pair from Glacern during their March Madness sale. I think they were priced at around $450 each or so. But Shars claims all the same tolerances, and this was a big buy for me, so I cheaped out and bought the Shars vises.
As far as where to find them... just click the link in my first post

[LUCKY13]

I think you did good. One thing, there is no way those cheaper vices on Ebay are 10,000lb clamping force. And the Shars vices have been coming out to be better than claimed tolerances on the fit & finish.



Those vices will also be very versatile and should last. Now the Glacern would have been nice also but I dont see a think wrong with the Shars.


This also goes to show just how much rigidity can be effected by something like the workholding, and even just extra weight.


BTW what kinda scraping masters you making? I would be interested in some cut blanks that still need scraped to finish. I am going to get one of those camel back masters but some thinner flat masters with a angle cut would be good to have to. I plan to do the same to my RF-45 and I am getting closer to be able to work on my CNC kit I have ( need to make motor & ballnut mounts). That and cutting my screws, belts & pulleys for the servo,s and I will be on my way.



LOL I just noticed you have the exact machine as I.


Jess

[Bob La Londe]

I have no issues with my Shars Vises. Don't have the lock down vise like you show, but I do have 6 of their screwless vise. 3-1", 1-3", and 2-6". I am very happy with them. Some day I may even key them, but since I have 4 mills and a mill drill, and all but two of which have different slot sizes...

Anyway. I jealous of your two new vises. You will get a lifetime of service out of them I am sure.

[1HobbyMachinist]

~snip~

Thanks, Jess. I'm pretty happy with the vises. I was also skeptical of the claimed 10,000 lb clamping force of those ebay vises.
Here's a few pics of me machining my second master surface. I'm still very much in the learning process, so I'd like to get my feet wet and actually make a couple from start to finish before I do more.




I'm sure this isn't the best setup in the world, but I couldn't think of another way to do it. Those wimpy little arms on the sine vises aren't strong enough to do much with, so I clamped the top down on the gage blocks. I'm working on 3 cast iron blocks right now to take the place of those gage blocks. They will be 1" x 3" x 2.5" high. The rolls of my 3 sine vises are 5" apart, so I need them at 2.5" or 30 degrees in order to cut the 60 degree angle on my master.


The last pic is after stress relieving, and finish machining. I have not begun scraping it yet. I already made one, but at 55 degrees. I decided to take the advice to convert my X2 to 60 degree ways, so I got the bright idea to machine a 60 degree angle on the other side of my existing master. But when I finished, it just looked too wimpy to me. I'm afraid it might flex too easy when the "stiction" starts from the bluing on the surface plate. So I made this one.

[LUCKY13]

Wow that looks great. LOL, you have more in vises than machine.



Just wandering, where do you get the cast iron pieces? I havnt seen anyone list any, atleast none of the small quantity place.



IDK if you are considering or thinking about this already but some of the masters I have seen made they added handles in the ends of them. I have even seen them with none conductive handles to keep the hand heat out of the master.


Jess

[1HobbyMachinist]

Wow that looks great. LOL, you have more in vises than machine.



Just wandering, where do you get the cast iron pieces? I havnt seen anyone list any, atleast none of the small quantity place.



IDK if you are considering or thinking about this already but some of the masters I have seen made they added handles in the ends of them. I have even seen them with none conductive handles to keep the hand heat out of the master.


Jess

Thanks, yes I have a lot of vises!!! or is it vices? Maybe one day I'll do a photo shoot for all my tooling...
I actually have 4 sine vises; I bought one a while back, and recently wanted to buy 2 more, but I couldn't find the style I had so I just bought 3 identical ones from shars. I also have 2 different 4" milling vices, a universal angle vise, my new 6" cnc vises and also a 10" 2 piece vise. Also a 4" and 10" rotary table, riser block, angle plate and probably a lot of other stuff I've forgotten about until I stub my toe on it anyway!

For the cast iron, Speedy metals has a nice supply, will cut to order and ships promptly. I'd like to find a local supplier of metals here in Mobile, AL, but Speedy metals and to a lesser extent, Online metals has sent plenty of stock my way.

Handles are a great idea! I would love to see some links to these ideas if it's not too much trouble.
I bought a camel back casting from Michael Morgan, but frankly I'm not smart enough to figure out how to machine the damn thing! There's nothing to grip!!!

[LUCKY13]

You cant have to many tool to work with. On gripping the camel back I never thought of that before. It would be a problem, maybe two large angle plates. But then getting a angle set would be the problem. They would work on a bridgeport type mill where the head will do the angle work.


On the handles just think rolling pin and this should give the idea. Just drill and tap the ends, install handle. Some of the ones I have seen where much like the handle on a old machine handwheel crank, but only the part you grab with your hand.


Here is one big striaght edge with some handles,

Condor Machine Tool Co., Inc. » Busch Co 10" x 50" Straight Edge Parallel


But a straight edge this big needs something.

This is more what I was thinking about but its just a drawing.
All American Products Co. - MACHINE HANDLES


Jess

[1HobbyMachinist]

~snip~

Thanks, the handles are a good idea. I'll have to do that on the longer edges I'll be making.

Yeah as far as the camel back goes, every time I look at it I'm like "Damn! I wish I had a bridgeport!!!"
Actually, I exaggerated about my inability to machine it. I have managed to mill the bottom flat, but cutting the angle is giving me fits. I may have to ask a local machinist to do it for me.

Anyhow, as far as the vices go. They are making a huge difference now in the overall rigidity of my setup. I was easily chewing through some 1" 4140 bar, and there was barely any cutting noise at all! Don't let that fool you into thinking it was quiet, though. My raggedy gear head, wobbly column, and flimsy mill stand still made plenty of noise and vibration!

I think it's time to take a break from rebuilding the X2, and focus on some needful things on the 45. It's time for a new stand, belt drive, and spindle bearings to start with.