[DDLES]

Guys,
I just tried to buy a MiniMill 2 and the sales guy would not work with me. I was asking for 10% off and he would not discount anything, nothing at all. I told him this was a cash deal and we would cut a check right there. Still he would not discount one percent.

I’m kind of really unhappy that he wasted our time. I told him the week before to know his margin and that we would push on the price a bit. We left for lunch and he called us back to restart the deal only to tell us he could not do anything for us, again wasting our time.

What really ticks me off is nearly 5K of the price was software options that cost HAAS nothing to throw in to make the deal. And yes I understand they have to recover their NRE costs.

Are you guys finding any movement out there on HAAS prices?

[Donkey Hotey]

10% sounds like a bunch on a low-dollar machine. They publish their prices for a reason. I don't see what the problem is.

The dealer is also not the factory. The dealer only has so much wiggle room and margin to work with. 10% on a demo or overstock machine would not be unreasonable but, then the factory is kicking in some of the discount.

What options were you trying to get? The more options, the deeper the discount. You're right: software is a cheapie for the factory but, they have to make the money somewhere.

[DDLES]

I understand what you are saying and 10% was our target. When you consider this economy you figure there are not that many capital purchases going on right now. And a machine manufacturer should be happy for the business.

I guess it was more the way he handled it that I am displeased with. Still we are ordering enough options to have him do something.


This is what we are looking to buy:

MINIMILL2 20" x 16" x 14" $35,995.00
Expanded Memory to 16 MB 16MB $1,095.00
High-Speed Machining with Look-Ahead HSM $2,295.00
Rigid Tapping R-TAP $1,195.00
Chip Auger AUGER $2,295.00
High-Flow Coolant Pump Kit, 3/4 hp (0.6 kW) HFP-MM $795.00
20-Station Automatic Tool Changer ATC10-20-UP $2,395.00


6 inch rotary table HRT160 $7,495.00
4th-Axis Drive and Wiring for brushless-type rotary tables 4AXBLMM $2,295.00

[underthetire]

Jeez, ad all those options up, might as well get a VF0 or something. High speed machining will require a high speed spindle witch will require a spindle chiller. The dealers are moving equipment out here on the west coast, we have bought 6 Mori's in the last year and placing an order for two more, so I see manufacturing up quite a bit. We did buy a new HAAS this year, a TM3, and they did discount it some. My guess is that the Mini Mill is the lost leader machine, factory set pricing, so no dealing. Mori Seiki does that on the Dura Centers, so it's not unusual. Try for a VF0 or Vf1 and see what they do.

[Ydna]

One of the schools I work at recently bought a Minimill and loaded GT series lathe. Haas gives us a 10% discount automatically for small machines like this (and 15% for production ones) well long story short they called us back after we delivered the PO and informed us they decided to knock it up to 15% on both the machines.

Though, that was straight from the factory using our HFO as an intermediary, and it was for a college and all. But still I found it kindof odd.

[JohnJW]

I used to get quite worked up over pricing. I remember seeing a 2002? IMTS Haas flier that had heavily discounted pricing and wonder how come the sales person won't budge at all during 2004, especially on machines with a bunch of "control" options. Only later did I realized that 2002 was probably near the bottom of the post 9/11 recession and 2004 was the peak of the mini boom. In 2009 when I was shopping for the 2nd Haas, I got the standard recession Haas pricing without too much trouble.

Anyway, machine pricing is heavily influenced by supply and demand and that explains why back in 2004 I see used VF2SS going for almost the price of a new machine. You can't just walk in and expect the sales person to fork over the discounts especially when the factory is running at near capacity.

If you can wait, find out when the factory is slow and negotiate during that time but if you can't wait then welcome to the free market system I got no where near 10% on my first machine. . .

[Matt@RFR]

I'm curious; Do you guys let your customers negotiate with you on your shop rate? I sure as hell don't.

If something I need is reasonably priced, I buy it. If I think it's over priced, I don't buy it. Simple as that. We are talking about some of the cheapest CNC machines on the market!!

[unassumption]

I discussed this with my local Haas rep. He said that Haas lowered prices on machines earlier this year and now aren't giving the dealers any room to budge. This particular machine sold for $38,995 before the price cut, now it's $35,995. That's about an 8% discount there. He did tell me there was a discount available if you purchased enough options but we didn't go into specifics. For what it's worth

[Delw]

double post sorry

[Delw]

I'm curious; Do you guys let your customers negotiate with you on your shop rate? I sure as hell don't.

If something I need is reasonably priced, I buy it. If I think it's over priced, I don't buy it. Simple as that. We are talking about some of the cheapest CNC machines on the market!!

Finally someone with a brain.

this is one of my pet peeves, everyone wants a deal but when it comes time for them to make a deal or cut prices good luck.


Thanks Matt
Delw

[Haas_Apps]

I discussed this with my local Haas rep. He said that Haas lowered prices on machines earlier this year and now aren't giving the dealers any room to budge. This particular machine sold for $38,995 before the price cut, now it's $35,995. That's about an 8% discount there. He did tell me there was a discount available if you purchased enough options but we didn't go into specifics. For what it's worth

This is exactly true!

[ImanCarrot]

I'm curious; Do you guys let your customers negotiate with you on your shop rate? I sure as hell don't

You are totaly right. When I quote, that's the price. Take it or leave it. No movement at all. If you want what I make you pay me, if you dont want to pay what I ask, I won't make it. Simple as.

My sub-contractors also know that when they quote me I'll buy it straight up, no questions if I can make a profit on the job. I've worked with them for over 20 years- we both know the score.

One of my sub-contractors will deliberately over-quote to another company because he knows that they will haggle, he tells me this and I know it's true- I know the other company and they think they're smart cos they got a discount whilst wasting say an hour on the 'phone.

However, the chap who made the phone call and got the "discount" will probably end up in upper management because it looks good on paper.

Never move an inch +/- 0 lol. It's quicker, simple and less hassle.

[kevperro]

Maybe the feeling is mutual. He probably feels like you wasted his time.


The bottom line is this.... if you don't agree on price there is no law that he has to sell it nor that you have to buy it.

Go buy another machine that is cheaper and provides the same performance and be done with it rather than crying on a public forum.

[timan]

The 15% discount is for schools only, I asked, it is to do with their Haas Techincal Education Centers. I can agree with it helping younger minds learn cnc machining and manufacturing. Asking for 10% on a $40k machine wow you have some balls or just plain stupid, if I were the sales rep I would of laughed and said thanks for the opportunity but that is an unreasonable request. I have some Haas machines they always treat me right with the sale, they do not have much room to move so usually my rep will sell me a tooling certificate at a 15-20% discount which helps a lot. My question is what value can you put on the Haas Factory Outlet service and support, my service guy is here within 10-12 hours of my reuqest and leaves with my machine back up and running. Not one of these shows up at 10am with a $500 show up fee starts about 11am on the phone from 11:15-11:45 gone to lunch from 12-1 works till about 3 and says 2 weeks to get the part. Haas has always been there when I need them and I know a lot of others they have been there to help too. I still love the fact that it is a privately owned American company with a majority of the machine components made in America.

[Catchme]

They sell every one they make. if you dont pay msrp, someone else will. these arent fords that sit on dealer lots for months on end.

[foxsquirrel]

I am shocked you are so excited about 10% off, if money is that tight why buy a machine. We bought a new Haas in 2007 and paid full list then got extremely lucky last summer and bought another new one for 25% off when things were not moving. Its not good to buy a machine from a company that discounts to the point a very little profit they will not be around in few years, that means when you need parts, good luck.

Another thing is you are also paying for LONG TERM CUSTOMER SUPPORT, a technical staff is not cheap. Haas has always been their for us in a very prompt and professional manner. They have ALWAYS helped us over the phone with the used machines and rotary indexers we have had over the years, for free........

[ducesrwld]

the problem is are some shops are used to the import distributors coming in and giving them 10..20% off right off the bat. haas is not like this, kind of like saturn dealers were, no matter what dealer you went to you'll get the same quote. some people feel good about the discount right up front but how much do you think those distributors are actually jacking up the price if they can do that......thing is they don't publish their prices so you'd be suprised years ago how inflated their quotes actually were.

[foxsquirrel]

Its easy to discount something from China that has 800% pure profit for the reseller. Haas is making money but they earn it and then it goes back into OUR economy via employees etc.