[nuclear]

I have been trying for weeks to get the guys at Novakon to fix issues I have been having with my machine but I have not been getting any results. Has anyone been in touch with them?

Here are the problems I am having with my NM-135...

Y-axis limit switch is broken. Requested replacement, none received.
Spindle bearing noise. This has been an issue since the day I received the machine.
Spindle bearing temperature. This has been an issue since the day I received the machine.
Spindle belt was damaged from being installed too tight. Requested replacement, none received.
Want to buy a fan for spindle. Requested information, none received.
Want to buy a new table. Requested one that was not milled down, no information received.
Drill chuck came with wrong size collet threads. Requested replacement, none received.
4th axis connector. Requested part, none received.
One shot oiler filled with debris and leaks. Requested replacement, none received.
Machine manual. Requested a machine manual and still have not received anything other than an incomplete draft.

Anyone else getting such terrible service?

[mcphill]

Ouch...

[Novakon]

nuclear,

Based on the last email we have seen in our system, you are on the road a lot and would prefer email communication. Supporting customers via email can be done in most situations but as you seem to have multiple items that need to be addressed, telephone support is a must.

Rodney has left you messages for a return call as we need to diagnose your concerns one by one. We can only send out replacement parts once your issues have been confirmed through our support department.

We are here to help and ask that you contact Rodney directly via telephone so that he can address you concerns immediately.

Thank you,

Novakon Systems LTD.

I have been trying for weeks to get the guys at Novakon to fix issues I have been having with my machine but I have not been getting any results. Has anyone been in touch with them?

Here are the problems I am having with my NM-135...

Y-axis limit switch is broken. Requested replacement, none received.
Spindle bearing noise. This has been an issue since the day I received the machine.
Spindle bearing temperature. This has been an issue since the day I received the machine.
Spindle belt was damaged from being installed too tight. Requested replacement, none received.
Want to buy a fan for spindle. Requested information, none received.
Want to buy a new table. Requested one that was not milled down, no information received.
Drill chuck came with wrong size collet threads. Requested replacement, none received.
4th axis connector. Requested part, none received.
One shot oiler filled with debris and leaks. Requested replacement, none received.
Machine manual. Requested a machine manual and still have not received anything other than an incomplete draft.

Anyone else getting such terrible service?

[Novakon]

nuclear,

We also noticed that the first item regarding your y-limit switch was added as part of your email received yesterday, not weeks ago.

Rodney will assist you in replacing this part as we should have them in stock.

Alternatively, please also let him know when would be a good time to call you if that is more convenient.

Thank you,

Novakon Systems LTD.

[nuclear]

The last contact I had from Rodney was on the 19th of May. Since then I have emailed him weekly without a response. Aside from maybe the issues I am facing with the spindle noise and temperature there is much needed to speak about on the phone to diagnose my concerns. I sent Rodney pictures of all the parts he requested two weeks ago and still haven't heard back from him.

It is pretty simple, the following parts need to be replaced: limit switch, spindle belt, large drill chuck, 4th axis connector, and the one shot oiler. The following parts need to be quoted: fan for spindle and new table that was not machined for the useless coolant tray. I would also like a realistic date when the service manual will be available.

It is not my intention to blast your company but I am tired of my problems with your equipment being ignored. Keep in mind I have been dealing with problems with the machine since October that still have not been resolved. Aside from the issues above I have spent hours fixing problems that should have been caught at the factory or during initial testing. Please make these right so I can be a satisfied customer.

[Novakon]

nuclear,

Thank you for your response.

We will address you concerns via email as requested.

Rodney will be in contact with you shortly.

Regards,

Novakon Systems LTD.

[g29cc]

Nuclear ~ sorry to hear about your problems.

I have always had EXCELLENT service from Novakon. Khai has emailed me back on SUNDAY MORNING in some instances !

I called and talked with Rodney yesterday on the phone to help with an issue I am having.

I hope you get it figured out.

Good luck !

[JoeBean]

Similar positive experience here. We're waiting delivery for an NM200s2 shortly. Khai just emailed a couple days ago that the mill was in a week early and being gone over, but that their inventory #s were wrong on their 8" rotabs (which we ordered) and will be delayed for a little while. I was pleased enough that he kept me informed, and having ran a business for years that relies on managing inventory I understand how easy it is to have a fool up. Owning up to it was nice.

What really impressed me, though, was that he offered to throw in a chuck for our troubles. To me that was unnecessary but definitely appreciated.

I also like the way Khai has handled this topic. Look over other forums to see how some companies, even quite large companies, handle online complainers and it's anything but professional, often devolving into name calling. Understandable if you've ever had people bad-mouthing you - particularly if you feel it's unwarranted. But a real professional exercises self-control. Sadly that seems less common these days, particularly in North American business.

[slatronic]

I have never had any major issues with Novakon's service. Khai has always been quick to reply to emails, often within an hour or so. Rodney sometimes is hard to get a hold of, but never unresponsive. No more than a day or so. Which in most cases is fast enough. I had an issue with my motor when I first got my mill but it was taken care of with help from both Khai and Rodney. In my experience Rodney works better over the phone which is the opposite of myself. But it's not that hard to pick up the phone and make a phone call.

slater

[marcel beaudry]

Same here

Marcel Beaudry

[gleas]

I have been working with Novakon for years now. We bought an nm-135 along with other benchtop machines after selling our manufacturing business of 27 years.

I did a lot of research on this type of machine before going with Novakon. I was pleased with the response from Khai as are most Novakon customers.

The difference I have with my experience of their service is pretty basic. If you are in business selling a product or service there is only one rule that you need to operate under. Tell the truth, and do what you say you are going to do. That's it, in a nutshell. Any other policy will blow up in your face eventually.

Novakon's service policy is priority based, so if your situation, costs them time and money, it's not going to be on the top of their list. To some people this policy sounds reasonable as long as they aren't at the bottom of the list.

Just recently, I had a couple of questions regarding the price of an oil pump and a backup controller board. After waiting about a week, I asked about it again, and was told that they were busy filling back-orders on machines and they would get back to me when they had the time.

What a part costs isn't rocket science guys. Any other company could have looked that up in a few minutes probably while the customer was on the phone. I'm still waiting for a response.

Anyway, my point is, you can't solve problems with words alone. You have to follow through on it. If you have a service "department" then service is what they should be doing, not putting out fires in another "department". It's a joke.

We were seriously thinking about buying another machine from Novakon but because I can't depend on them after the sale, sadly I can't afford to do that.

-Greg

[gleas]

I need to make a correction to something I said in my last post. I mentioned that I had been working with Novakon for years. My wife informed me that it's been less than two years, although it seems like years to me. Sorry for the error.

The most recent incident I spoke of is just that, the most recent. I could go on for a LONG TIME about their half baked service policy.

-Greg

[williams480]

Anyway, my point is, you can't solve problems with words alone. You have to follow through on it. If you have a service "department" then service is what they should be doing, not putting out fires in another "department". It's a joke.

We were seriously thinking about buying another machine from Novakon but because I can't depend on them after the sale, sadly I can't afford to do that.

-Greg

I've just had a similar encounter with their alleged "service department".

I don't post hardly at all, but when you've been nursing a flaky CD100 controller for a year, and ask for a little help when it finally takes a dump and don't even get a whimper, It made me want to express my frustration.

I wasn't even asking for them to replace stuff for free, just wanted to buy what I needed.

Khai tried, but at the end of the day when your $7500 machine is down and you have parts to make, it would be nice to know you can get some assistance.

I've ordered what I need from Keling, and will most likely will not go back to Novakon this fall for my next machine, sorry Khai....Rodney should have responded by phone or email.

[Novakon]

Dear Novakon Customers,

We are going through some growing pains at the moment as we add and train staff to support our existing and new customers.

We recognize the deficiencies in our current support infrastructure, but rest assured that it is only temporary.

Please accept our sincere apologies for any delay in responding.

Thank you for your continued support and patience.

Best Regards,

Novakon Systems LTD.

[digitalmdi]

Dear Novakon Customers,

We are going through some growing pains at the moment( MOVING WIFE'S CAR OUT OF THE GARAGE FOR MORE SPACE) as we add and train staff( SCHOOL IS OUT NOW SO WE HAVE SOME KID SWEEPING THE FLOOR) to support our existing and new customers.

We recognize the deficiencies in our current support infrastructure ( NO DESK- JUST A CARD TABLE) but rest assured that it is only temporary( GUY DOWN THE STREET TOSSED OUT ONE OF THOSE PARTICLE BOARD DESKS).

Please accept our sincere apologies for any delay in responding.

Thank you for your continued support and patience( DON'T CALL US- WE'LL CALL YOU).
Best Regards,

Novakon Systems LTD( VERY LTD).

Thats classic- a 2-3 person operation posting some BS they copied from BP's book of " duck and dodge".
What's next- one of those phone menus that shuffles you around to 10 different places before hanging up.

[ihavenofish]

Thats classic- a 2-3 person operation posting some BS they copied from BP's book of " duck and dodge".
What's next- one of those phone menus that shuffles you around to 10 different places before hanging up.

oh my, no. while i wont back up what he says on reasons because im not him, novakon is definitely NOT a 2-3 man operation and its definitely not in someones garage and they dont play phone tag. it used to be a 3 person operation a few years ago when they first started. i think theyve got a good 6-10 people now, with 2 just in service i think (cause weve dealt with 2 different service peoples).

i do know right now they are straining to get the new nm145's all delivered - including mine.

we all know that after sale service is one of the most important parts of this industry, and bad service often kills the guys selling these inexpensive machines. novakon knows this too, and has tried hard to make it a priority in my experience.

[ihavenofish]

How do you know. From what I have seen, and described at http://www.Novakoncnc.com , they act like they are working on their cell phones from the back of a pickup truck.

I bought a Novakon NM-135 machine and could never get it running. Literally, it is sitting in my shop with for 6 months and the Novakon tech can't get the thing to make a single cut. I'm so pissed I built a website to warn others so they don't get stuck too. Buy a machine from ANY ONE ELSE, stay away from novaKON.

And I have other CNC equipment. I have been working with CNC for YEARS! If you want to get an idea about how other companies handle tech support let me tell you about Techno-isel. I bought an old Techno-Isel CNC router that had a DOS controller (if you can believe that). I called Techno and in minutes spoke to a knowledgeable tech who worked with the company since they sold my 10+ year old machine. I got parts, manuals, maintenance information and even guidance to get it going. They included free support and gave me help setting up the software and setting. I was running in a few days and the machine cut like a champ. It was not a mill but it routed amazingly well. I also had some Techno-isel mills (Davinci 2's) and Sherlines. They all worked well and BETTER STILL had GREAT SUPPORT AND CUSTOMER service.

Novakon has been nothing by a problem.

I can tell you my Novakon purchase has been the worst investment I've ever made.

i have 2 of their machines, another on the way. ive been to their shop several times. theyve been to mine.

what machine did you buy? sounds like the little nm-035 one by your rant but the its so vague i honestly dont know what the heck your saying.

i gather the controler was faulty, they sent a new one, it was also faulty.

i guess they offered you an upgrade to a bigger machine in the end and you didnt take it. when was that? are they refunding you now?

on items like cnc gear shipped long distances, the customer has to put in more effort than normal when things go bad. taking pictures, opening cases is all reasonable to ask. they should have checked it over before sending the second one of course.

my friend bought the same machine, it arrived damaged from shipping to california. they refunded his money as they had no replacements, no hassles. the model was discontinued in early 2009 i think.

[g29cc]

I ve had no problems getting in touch with Khai. Rodney I ll call on the phone. Email doesn't come back from Rodney very often. But Khai will email back instantly. I bought a NM 200 and had a few quirks with it. Mostly configuration problems with Mach 3 and the controller. Nothing physical about the machine. The machine cuts as it should , no issues.

Customer service has been good. I haven't been to there shop, but I am close enough that maybe I ll swing out sometime and check it out.

I think the problem that some people don't realize, that though you are buying a bigger hobbyist machine, the end result is its still a hobbyist machine.

I have 2 original sherlines and one A2Z CNC monster mill conversions. The Sherline's are FAR from reliable machines. They are mere toys for cutting foam and plastic. They will cut metal ,just not very good ( and by good I mean accurate or anything that reassembles something about a .005 DOC at 2 ipm in 1018 in speed). Customer support from Sherline, very good. But its a toy , no comparison to the NM 200. Its a real machine. The A2Z machine is another toy, albeit a little bit better. Rapids are better, accuracy is a touch better also. But at the end of the day, its just a larger Sherline with better screws, again just a toy for cutting plastic and foam. I use mine for wood grips, while if I would have known that's all it was going to do , I would have bought a cnc router.

The point I am making is that the Novakon CNC machines are hobbyist machines. If you want industrial machines for production, spend the money. If you want super bad ass support, spend the money. Want a ATC, guess what, spend the money.

If you are like me and do proto type work , small production runs, have some time to work out some problems, then the Novakon machine is a EXCELLENT choice. Its affordable and nicely put together.

What its not , is a HAAS. But it doesn't have a HAAS price tag. When you say buy a used HAAS for the same money, how can you be certain that you won't have to dump a small fortune into repairing it. Yes HAAS has decent customer service. They have service guys that come to your shop ( been there ) and they scratch their heads just like we do when they can't figure something out either.

Novakon has been excellent at responding to my calls or emails. They have been good at working with me on trying to solve problems over the phone. They don't have the tech or R&D dept that HAAS has, but they also don't charge for tech support.

I will say I am extremely happy so far with my purchase of my Novakon CNC machine, the customer service has been excellent. The purchase was smooth, shipping was a breeze and fast and setup was a piece of cake.

I am a growing company myself and feel the pains of that growth sometimes. For me its hard to relinquish control of certain things that I do and I hear people complain from time to time , thinking I am a huge outfit like Sears or something. When the reality is that I am far from that. But we are growing and with growth comes new issues to overcome. If Novakon didn't respond to my emails or phone calls then I wouldn't be happy. But they have, and that's not to say that when they have all was solved. But they tried.

I ll stand behind Novakon till they prove me wrong or not take care of me.

[gleas]

"I ve had no problems getting in touch with Khai. Rodney I ll call on the phone. Email doesn't come back from Rodney very often. But Khai will email back instantly. I bought a NM 200 and had a few quirks with it. Mostly configuration problems with Mach 3 and the controller. Nothing physical about the machine. The machine cuts as it should , no issues.

Customer service has been good. I haven't been to there shop, but I am close enough that maybe I ll swing out sometime and check it out."


I like a fast response just like anyone, BUT, saying that their working on the problem and will get back to me doesn't cut it. I started out doing machine tool retrofitting, (which is basically what Novakon does in China) and while they tried to solve my problems, My wife and I had to do all the dis-assembly, trouble shooting, soldering, wiring, and mechanical adjustments here in the U.S. at MY expense for around three weeks straight before we got it to run reliably, sort of. I did this all from a wheelchair at an incalculable cost. So when you say their customer service was good, it was good enough for your particular problems. That's not my experience and I will give you many more examples of my experience as I answer your post.

"I think the problem that some people don't realize, that though you are buying a bigger hobbyist machine, the end result is its still a hobbyist machine."

When most people research a machine purchase, they usually look at the stated specifications of the machine. That's how I came to my initial decision regarding Novakon. According to Novakon, this is NOT a hobby machine. Hobbyist's may buy them, but there are not sold as hobby machines. They are Bench Top CNC Mills. BTW, their specifications and accuracy were/are miss-stated both verbally and on paper.

At one point I asked Khai how many ball circuits were in each ball nut. After a short wait, I was told that each nut had three circuits. This is absolutely false, because I had a bad X axis ball screw and requested a replacement. I'm guessing, but close to a year later, I finally received the ball screw replacement (under warranty).

1. There ARE no ball circuits. Technically it's not even a ball screw. Oh, there are balls in the nut, but only 5 of them, and they are spring loaded and held in by plastic plugs.

2. When I looked at the factory replacement screw, I noticed that is was not a new screw. It was obviously removed from another machine. I have no idea what condition it's in and would not tear down the machine only to put a used or possibly defective screw in it.

After showing Khai pictures of the wear on the so called factory part, he told me that they would never intentionally send me a used screw and would "LOOK INTO IT AND GET BACK WITH ME". It's still sitting here waiting for the fast response. But wait,,,, there's more.

3. The other day I noticed that this replacement screw probably wouldn't fit my machine because one end of it is machined much differently than my screw. Guess I need to make another call to this "great service department".


"The point I am making is that the Novakon CNC machines are hobbyist machines. If you want industrial machines for production, spend the money. If you want super bad ass support, spend the money. Want a ATC, guess what, spend the money."

Let me "respectfully" just add to your advise about getting what you pay for. I have been in the manufacturing business for over 30 years. I have owned state of the art CNC machines made by U.S. , Japanese, Taiwanese, British and Canadian companies etc. Any fool would be disappointed thinking that a Chinese machine tool was comparable in any way. I think most people (including myself) understand this going in.

But what I do expect is, that if a company says that their machine is capable of X,Y and Z, (pardon the pun), then this is what should be expected by the customer, and supported by the company no matter what the cost. 6 or 7 thousand dollars is not beer money.

I am a growing company myself and feel the pains of that growth sometimes. For me its hard to relinquish control of certain things that I do and I hear people complain from time to time , thinking I am a huge outfit like Sears or something. When the reality is that I am far from that. But we are growing and with growth comes new issues to overcome. If Novakon didn't respond to my emails or phone calls then I wouldn't be happy. But they have, and that's not to say that when they have all was solved. But they tried.


All companies grow and experience the up's and down's that go with it. But in that growing process, certain policies and ethics can get lost or put aside. BIG MISTAKE!! If you sell a product or service, the customer is the most valuable to your continued success whether they are a new customer or an old one.

Our relationship with Novakon finally deteriorated to the point where they told me they had a box full of goodies that they would send me to compensate for all our trouble with the machine. After several months i received a few cheap end mills, a $12.00 pair if calipers, and a small quick change set (inferior to Tormach) On top of that, I got a bill for $45.00 for customs. Yea, they try.

[ihavenofish]

At one point I asked Khai how many ball circuits were in each ball nut. After a short wait, I was told that each nut had three circuits. This is absolutely false, because I had a bad X axis ball screw and requested a replacement. I'm guessing, but close to a year later, I finally received the ball screw replacement (under warranty).

1. There ARE no ball circuits. Technically it's not even a ball screw. Oh, there are balls in the nut, but only 5 of them, and they are spring loaded and held in by plastic plugs.

im going to pick on this. have you opened up the screw? removed the nut? cause what you are saying isnt true, or even possible.

there are a few types of ball returns. the ones on these machines are internal plastic sleeves. ive actually taken one apart from the nm070. theres a hell of alot more than 5 balls - i know cause i had to put the damned things back in! this particular 12mm screw has 2 complete circuits with fairly small bearings - maybe 2-2.5mm. at least 30-40 bearings total, and only a fairly small "gap" between each.

all the screws on these machines are basically the same, just different sizes.

the nm135 went through a number of revisions, so its possible the "new" screw you got was for a different variation of the machine so the ends were done differently. not an excuse for sending a possibly used screw, or why youve still not gotton the right one, but just a reason why it might have come incorrect.

---

so my question is how would you expect them to deal with this issue?
you have an inexpensive machine shipped form a fair distance from a company that cant provide you on site support (you knew all this going in, or at least should have).

you have a bad ballscrew.

not being a dick, sarcastic, or novakon suck up... want to know seriously what realistic solution would have made you happy.

i ask because this type of issue is quite diffucult for any company to deal with and indeed youll hear horrors from ALL companies big and small when it comes to larger components failing. shipping the whole machine back is not ideal, nor is personally swapping screws at my own time and expense. but given that ONE of those ultimately is a must, im really not sure which is the lessar of 2 evils.