[newton009]

Ballscreews should not be making clunking sounds. That is obviously a warranty issue and should be dealt with by Novakon in a timely fashion. As I am expecting my NM 200 soon, and considering running it up while its still in the crate. (after unbolting the spindle and leveling) Easy to return if there are problems.

Those of you who own the same mill do you think starting it in the crate is possible, eg. clearance, leveling, controller?

I hope Novakon resolves your problems soon. I too am a small business and could not afford to have my investment not producing for months waiting for a repair. For some of us $10 000 plus is a big investment. I agree the machine is not a HAAS and realize the limitations of the NM 200, but I do expect it to work properly. Does Smitty or Tormach not carry replacement parts?

[ihavenofish]

Ballscreews should not be making clunking sounds. That is obviously a warranty issue and should be dealt with by Novakon in a timely fashion.

for gleas, his seems to be an actual problem with the ball screw and actually causing issues cutting. note his machine was the nm135 based on the sieg kx3. this model went through several revisions and now is gone, which compounded the spare parts issue.

mine is the nm200, which has much bigger ball screws, more weight etc. the clunking in mine is the ball return and NOT an issue. if it were, i think novakon has easier acess to parts on these.

you proably need to remove the machine from the crate to test it properly. just get it set up, run it, make sure it all works. report any issues to novakon. the same as youd do with any other machine.

i think our friend idesign has gone and made people un necessarily paranoid...

[PrecisionSpindl]

If you are needing the ball screw to be repaired, contact us. We can look at the ball screw with the intention of repairing it, and if it is not repairable we can replace it.

Precision Spindle & Accessories Inc.

www.precisionspindleinc.com tel. 519 671 3911
[email protected] fax. 519 652 5994

[TarHeelTom]

iDesign,

I'm not suggesting anything of the sort. Simply pointing out the difficulties in dealing with a machine made in China.

My cousin used to drive all over the US on occasion solving computer problems for IBM customers. IBM used to send an airplane out and pick up a potential customer and bring them in to show them a product, then fly them back home.

But that kind of service requires a price tag to bankroll those support operations.

I'm not a Novatron customer, but they were certainly available to anyone at the recent cnc conference. They came down from Canada and brought three machines with them. By sure chance, I ate breakfast with them every morning, as we were staying in the same hotel.

I've certainly had issues with almost every car I've ever bought. Needed a simple control board for my Toyota. A friendly parts guy at an out of town dealer researched it for me and found that not only was the board not in stock anywhere, the company that made it was out of business. Bought a new Ford van, and the shift linkage simply fell off a couple of weeks later.

But, I still drive cars, and as always, I deal with the issues.

[gleas]

I think this thread is an important one in many respects.

It demonstrates that all companies regardless of what they are selling incur unexpected problems. It's how accountable and when/how they deal with them that's important.

I'm not angry enough to start a website on the issue, but I can take this fellas story on face value and understand why he decided to bring it to this level. I would assume that he had already exhausted all the bla bla with Novakon.

I think it also informs prospective Novakon customers that there are definite risks and realities associated with buying a machine tool in this way, that they probably weren't aware of in the midst of all the "happy talk".

If a company ultimately can't resolve ones problem it will be resolved in another way. He may end up selling it to someone who can get it running and maybe break even. Who knows. In my case, I can't afford to let the machine just sit there taking up space. I have to keep it running or, find another way to supplement our income.

Anyway, I have a feeling that this thread will survive and be revisited from time to time. New models, new problems. All in all, it's a good thing.

-Greg

[ihavenofish]

I think this thread is an important one in many respects.

It demonstrates that all companies regardless of what they are selling incur unexpected problems. It's how accountable and when/how they deal with them that's important.

I'm not angry enough to start a website on the issue, but I can take this fellas story on face value and understand why he decided to bring it to this level. I would assume that he had already exhausted all the bla bla with Novakon.

I think it also informs prospective Novakon customers that there are definite risks and realities associated with buying a machine tool in this way, that they probably weren't aware of in the midst of all the "happy talk".

If a company ultimately can't resolve ones problem it will be resolved in another way. He may end up selling it to someone who can get it running and maybe break even. Who knows. In my case, I can't afford to let the machine just sit there taking up space. I have to keep it running or, find another way to supplement our income.

Anyway, I have a feeling that this thread will survive and be revisited from time to time. New models, new problems. All in all, it's a good thing.

-Greg

i agree this thread can be a good one. my issue with idesign is only in the way he presents himself and spams his website. it clutters the forum and makes it difficult for people to wade through to either get help, or give help.

[g29cc]

I think this can be a good thread when its kept under control and not used for ones agenda.

idesign, you never did answer my question to how long it was before you really got to the machine to get it running to find out it wasn't working properly. Was it hours, days, weeks , months ?

That to me could play a huge part in your complaint. If you didn't test the machine for 5 months and then add that to the idea that now its 6 months since you bought it, that's not really a fair accusation to make. From your website "All the while I was enjoying my Sherline tools the Novakon just sat there. Then I got a job that was too big for the Sherlines." Makes it sound to me like you used the Sherlines for xx amount of time before you even got to the Novakon machine.

The MCD example, heck they sell food all day long that makes people sick. You get what you pay for. You can choose to eat crap food from MCD or you can choose to eat from a expensive restaurant. They sure make those Big Mac's look good in advertising......

I am not saying your right or wrong. I am just saying, to me there is alot of holes in your accusations against Novakon.

I just find it hard to beleive that with all the customer service I have received and others I have talked to , that there aren't a few give n takes here in your story.

I hope you get your machine running.

As you can see by the part below ( which is a rough cut for fixture testing, not a finishing cut ), my machine makes good parts, to tolerance without any issues. This part is a very fast rapid ( Novakon states in their advertising my NM 200 runs at 75 ipm max feed rate, but mine is running flawless so far at 140 ipm even pushed to 175 ipm, with 120 ipm cuts in 6061 aluminum as shown by the part below ).



AGAIN my machine is a NM 200 though. And from my understanding they have superseded the NM 135 with the NM 145 which is supposedly a better design etc.

[gleas]

Tom,

I agree tradeshows are fun. And IBM used to have the finest sales/service and tech around. And the guys I've talked to at novakon are nice. But nice only goes so far.

I'm just asking for basic decent service and a manual. Heck, I'd even pay a reasonable price for the manual. Shouldn't companies need to honor their warranty.

Many companies today act like the customer needs to be treated nicely only before the sale. If we put up with it, I fear we will only get more.

You state you don't use novakon equipment (lucky you)... AND would you mind telling us what you do use and how do you like it?

iDesign
(doesn't like novakon at http://www.novakoncnc.com)

iDesign,

I am attaching the Smithy manual which is the same pretty much the same as the NM-135. I forgot your model so let me know if this is relevant.

-Greg

[g29cc]

g29cc, Now I see what you are asking. You think I might be puffing by adding the time from purchase to the repair delay. I wish I was doing that... but I am not.

The 6+ months delay, and still counting, is from the time I notified Novakon about the problem. I called them in October/November of 2009. It is now July 2010. I still have no repair.

To prove it up I will place scans of the documents on my website so you, and everyone else, can verify what I am saying. It will be worth it to me to get the docs out of storage to prove that Novakon is incompetent AND to stop them from miss-treating anyone else.

BTW: Your part looks like it will work. I too like aluminum (but delrin is nice too).

Thanks for the good wishes.

iDesign

Now see this is where I am questioning you. On the website you say November 2008.

"And then I am told Novakon would like to handle the problem after the Holidays. It is November 2008. (Yes, this article is being written in June 2010 and FYI the mill is still not working.)"

Here you say Oct/November 2009 ?

That's why I asked, because they have a 1 year warranty from my understanding.

That is a year difference right there. Maybe your website has a typo, or maybe the typo is here. I don't know.

I don't need documents, or "proof". I guess all I am saying is that there is so much misinformation , or information not needed on your website ( things like the Sherline machines, or having someone else make the parts ). I understand in a sense your trying to tell your whole story. You know your own story and others that might read your website are going to have the first impression that , what the heck is this guy talking about ? There is so much info that is irrelevant to the problem you had with the Novakon, that it makes it seem very wishy washy.

I ve been in business and understand that you want to get your opinion out there. But best bet in my humble opinion is to stick with the facts on the particular problem, not drag information in that is irrelevant. Whether the Sherlines run good or not, has no bounding impact on why the NM135 doesn't run. That is a small example of what I am trying to say. ( I think I repeated myself twice kinda here ).

The dates are different, which would bring a point that is the machine now out of warranty ?

When was the machine purchased and how long before it was found it didn't work. That was and still is my original question. If the machine was bought in 2008, found out 6 months later mid 2009 that it didn't work, and now time after time your in 2010 and the machine still doesn't work, then to be brutally honest, I would have to say its your fault that you didn't take it serious enough to take care of the problem in a prompt manner.

This could be a problem you have had ongoing for 2 years now according to your dates ( just saying 2008 from the website till the current 2010 of now ). At what point have you not decided to really get in touch with a attorney on this ?

I am only reading one side of this ( your side ) and these are some of the reasons I see this as being full of holes and wishy washy.

I want you to get your machine running. Don't get me wrong. I am not against you , but I just think your whole rant doesn't make your side look good at all.

When I ready 20 good reviews , and 2 bad ones. I dismiss the bad ones as problems EVERYONE has with any part , product, customer service, or whatever daily thing comes into your life at one time or another , type of problem.

If I read 20 bad reviews and 2 good ones. I guess that is self explanatory.

Again I wish you luck on getting yours fixed. I am just stating my opinion.

[ihavenofish]

iDesign,

I am attaching the Smithy manual which is the same pretty much the same as the NM-135. I forgot your model so let me know if this is relevant.

-Greg

he has a first gen nm135, so its virtually identical to the smithy.

[TarHeelTom]

Tom,

You state you don't use novakon equipment (lucky you)... AND would you mind telling us what you do use and how do you like it?

iDesign

My shop includes an ancient Unimat, a long bed Sherline lathe, a Sherline mill, and a Bridgeport.

The Unimat came home, used, with my Dad back in the late 50's (I think). Never had any contact with Unimat, ever. On the other hand, I've made hundreds of small parts on the Unimat. I was never under the illusion that it was a 10" South Bend, and never asked more than it could deliver. It is what it is.

The Sherline mill I bought new about 8 years ago, did the cnc conversion last fall, and bought the Sherline lathe used last fall also.

The support from Sherline has been superb. Mentioned the lathe in one conversation with Sherline, and their tech support even had a record of where I bought the used lathe. Now that's impressive.

Biggest problem with the Sherline is that it's just not big enough for many of the parts I'm trying to make. I'm building a 7 1/2" gauge steam locomotive, and way too many of the parts are just too big for the Sherline. But I still made a lot of them on the Sherline anyway. Cut half a part, then turn it around and cut the other half.

The Bridgeport I bought in April, then got it home to find out that the computer wouldn't run on single phase power, so I've had to gut the old electronics and am now installing a PC, etc to make it run. Got first movement day before yesterday. Immensely satisfying. Wanna talk about a lack of customer support? Bridgeport is out of business. Hardinge, who is now making one or two models under license, has no idea where all the old parts, plans, etc got to.

Am I unhappy with the Bridgeport? No, not at all. When I get it up and running, I'll still have spent less than $4000 for a nice piece of heavy iron. Except for the issues with the early computer, I knew what I was getting going in. Lot to be said for three, heavy, smooth operating ball screws, lots of rigidity, and a rigid head which doesn't need to be trammed before each use.

On the other hand, I'm semi-retired, and don't need the Bridgeport to be immediately running in a production shop. And I've really enjoyed the electronic conversion work, and may look for other machines to rehab in the future.

Tom

[TarHeelTom]

Tom,

I agree tradeshows are fun. And IBM used to have the finest sales/service and tech around. And the guys I've talked to at novakon are nice. But nice only goes so far.

Although to the vendors, the cnc conference may have been considered a trade show, to me, and to many others, it was (mostly) a classroom learning experience. There were generally four classrooms going all day long, with many instructors, some of them vendors, teaching hard facts for hours at a time. I spent 6 hours or more a day in the EMC classroom. Learned an awful lot. And in many (most ?) cases, the vendors who were there were most likely the owners and chief engineers from the companies. A tremendous amount of technical information available.

Tom

[g29cc]

Ihavenofish
How many Novakon machines do you have ? I know you have the NM145 coming. But you also have a NM70 and NM 200 correct ?

[ihavenofish]

Ihavenofish
How many Novakon machines do you have ? I know you have the NM145 coming. But you also have a NM70 and NM 200 correct ?

then nm200 belongs to the guy i share space with, bu i seem to use it more than him, haha.

i have an nm070 first gen, which is really a sieg kx1 prototype. theres only a handful around the world. i dont uses it anymore simply because the nm200 is more convenient. i got it originally cause it fit in my apartment easily.

[fourwheeler]

I sent Khai at Novakon an email last night at 9PM CST and got a reply in 8 minutes...now that is pretty good customer relations if you ask me.

Personally I have nothing but good things to say about the Novakon people, extremely helpful, courteous, and always willing to help with whatever issue or noob question I have ever asked them. I would not hesitate to buy another Novakon mill at this point and fully intend to take a very serious look at the NM-200 when I do.

[ihavenofish]

Hey Greg,

AMAZING FIND! Thanks. I, and many others, appreciate it.

I wish I would have known Smithy is selling CNC mills. Their reputation is great and they have been in business for quite some time. The difference between them and novakon is seen right away. They've taken the effort to create a manual for their machine.

Anyone use their machine? It looks like it is made in the same factory as the novakon but the controller is different.

Cheers,
iDesign

check the smithy forum.

[g29cc]

Wow after reading through the Smithy forum, I am glad I didn't buy a Smithy, and they are located in the same state as me.

Smithy Lathe Problems

[Hirudin]

Wow, some of you need to grow a pair and fix some of these problems yourself. I just ordered my NM-200 (expected to be delivered in five or so weeks) but I can already say this: if I have jobs waiting for my machine to get fixed I'm not going to wait a year for a company in Canada to send me a new ballscrew!

JFC people, if you want to claim you're some kind of CNC machine expert how about you apply your vast knowledge to the problems you're having and fix them yourself? Would that be FAIR? No. Would that be in keeping with Novakon's warranty? No. Should you be forced to solve the problems inherent with the machine? No. But give me a break! Crying into your pillow isn't going to get the machine fixed either.

As one of you whiners said: it's not rocket science. The computer sends signals to the controller which amplifies them and passes them along to the motors. The motors turn the screws which force the nuts to move which in turn moves the table. Find the problem and fix it. It's not like Novakon is the only place in the whole entire world that sells ballscrews.

[Hirudin]

Aw, is the head out of square? Well tram the MF and GET ON WITH YOUR LIFE!!!

[Ballix]

I just got my Novakon Mill and it came with a full 100 page manual so I dont know what iDesign is talking about.