[larry53]

I have a H.P. desktop computer that was made in 2006. It is suppose to be able to go to 8 gig. I have contacted H.P. and they also said it could go to 8 gig on the ram. It had 2 gig and I added another 2 gig on one memory stick. It then showed I had 3.5 gig. So I added one more gig and it still shows 3.5 gig. I went back to H.P. and ask what is the problem. They said to install the latest update to the Bios. Which I did, but still reads 3.5 gigs. Now H.P. tells me to get the Bios, Flashed and reinstalled by a computer shop. If I get this done, should the computer than show there is 5 gig or not. This computer was bought new and this is the first time he computer memory was upgraded. I would think that if it is sold as a computer that will go to 8 gig, then why do I have to take it to a computer shop and pay for what should already be there, or did the Bios change,causing this problem and it is not H.P. bull? Every time I have been on H.P. site they give a whole not of information that never does anything to help. Thanks Larry

[JimBoyce]

Get into the bios, find out the mother board manufaturer, and go to their website.
Also, what does the bios say about memory size.

[larry53]

The bios setup listed as follows: Installed memory 5120/pc2-5300
Memory banks, 1thruough 3 has 1024mb/DDR2 Sdram, bank 4 has 2048mb/DDR2 Sdram. I already had the bios updated by direction of H.P.

[JimBoyce]

So the bios says 5 gig. What says you have 3.5 gig? Perhaps that is wrong.
Also you flashed the bios, that means you know more then 92.3% of computer shops and 99.9% of telephone support, which explains why you found out they are useless.

[larry53]

I click on my computer, then properites.

[armstrong360]

Are you running a 32 bot version of windows? If so you will see somewhat less than 4 Gig. 32 bit windows can not use any more memory even if present in the machine...

[larry53]

Yes it is a 32 bit system, however this machine was special ordered from HP. According to HP this machine is set to go to max of 8 gig.

[ger21]

Yes, the machine can hold 8 gigs of ram, but your version of Windows can't use it. If you want to use more than 3.5Gig, you need to use a 64 bit version of XP, Vista or 7. It's not the PC that is the problem, it's your version of XP. 32bit operating systems can only use 3.5Gigs of RAM.

[wildwestpat]

Hi Larry53

As is often the case there is a shed full of confusion when dealing with the combined effect of hardware and software and hard facts are difficult to come by. I think you have been given some clues but not the full answer by those help desk people. I would use one of the memory advisor software utilities such as that on the Crucial Memory site at :-

http://www.crucial.com/ballistix/index.aspx

If the automated answer is not good enough then for an insight into the possible use of more RAM I suggest you look at the following and wade through the Microsoft advice but consider memory leakage and the other bits I have included further on in this posting.


Limits for RAM access by the versions of Microsoft OS see:-

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...its_windows_xp


To add Physical Address Extension (PAE if supported by your hardware) see:-

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...8VS.85%29.aspx

Other things to consider are the use of the hard disc as a scratch pad to help with a temporary bottle neck in the use of RAM. (accessed via control panel - system - performance options/advanced/virtual memory - change - extend size of disc use ). A further point to watch is that you don't have applications running in the background or ones that have not released their use of RAM back into the pool (memory leakage). IMO disable all non essential programes in the start up menu and also check what is running using the widows task manager (ctr+alt+del) for a list including the percentage CPU use. There is a nasty feature in Windows that is often active by default that logs system problem and is part of the Microsoft automated help feature IMO disable along with the automatic updates of software and OS if and it is a very big IF you are certain that you do not need these features. IMO establish a backup routine that includes virus checks and update patches as well as archive of all data. There are various ways of implimenting this depending on your view of risk and consequential loss.

Hope this helps as the true limits are set by your hardware and the software settings in both the BIOS and the OS.

Regards - Pat

[wildwestpat]

Hi Larry 53

Just a thought but why are you looking to upgrade the RAM? Is it because RAM is cheaper now are you having speed issues?

You will by now have seen the problems in getting more RAM to be recognised let alone used by the machine. IMO look to the memory leakage issues and software that is loaded and running in the background. Consider isolating the CNC PC from the internet and turning off all virus and all program update options - virus check all CNC input prior to loading on a trusted networked machine.

Just my comments on how to keep the PC gremlins out of the workshop!

Regards - Pat

[larry53]

I am not that good on changing any settings on the computer. The memory upgrade site does not show my model. The only information I have that this computer will go up to 8 gig and should accepted and read 8 gig is from HP. I talk to them and they had me to updated my bios. When this did not change anything they said I had to go to a computer shop and have them to reinstall my bios and flash the bios. I do not know what this means or even if it will help.
I am also not sure how a 32 bit windows xp computer can go to 8 gig. But HP said it would because it had what ever it needed to do so from the factory. My computer Model is a D4600Y Pavilion with XP installed. I am not even sure it is a 32 bit computer.

CPU usage= 0 to 1%, has jumped to 2%
PF usage= 515mb

[wildwestpat]

Hi Larry53

Yes HP are probably correct you could insert extra memory. BUT I question why? You will have to be running some 'special' software to be able to make use of any more as Microsoft Windows will not let you use any more. Roughly 2Gb to the operating system and 2Gb for program running. I am guessing that HP have been at the BIOS and have added PAE - see the Microsoft site I gave you a link for. This also requires the options set in the msconfig but again you would not notice any enhancement in speed unless the software you are running can make use of it.


You should be able to find the computer listed on the site I pointer out for you if not try the automated tool at:-
http://www.crucial.com/store/drammemory.aspx

The problem is that during a production run some manufacturers use a variety of mother boards and processors but still have the same type and model number of the label.

With your hardware being four years old you need to ensure that you have the correct type of memory and I would advise that you stick to the same type and speed for all slots. Look at the mother board RAM instructions as this will give any pairing restrictions and slot position restrictions.

Also IMO you need to be sure that you are not having memory leakage due to previously rum software not releasing memory back into the pool when you have closed it down. (Try powering off - wait 10 seconds - power up - let the Windows stabilise this can take minutes if you have loads of junk in the registry files - then press control + alt + delete keys to bring up the windows task manager. This will show the applications running and under the processes flag the memory and CPU usage of files that have been opened and have the potential to use memory. Also under the performance flag the amount of CPU power you are using - with nothing running this should be very low i.e. one or two percent or less.

I still question why you are wanting to add another 4Gb of RAM as Windows XP 32 bit can't make any use of it although the BIOS could at the hardware level. This means that you would not see any improvement in running WINDOWS based software.

Because over time users tend to clutter up the registry with programs that have been down loaded - tried - then removed. Unfortunately this can leave some settings on the machine that allocate memory to the removed software. Four years is more than enough time for a machine that is in general / family use to have accumulated a lot of broken links and memory settings in the registry to cause slow running. Editing the Registry files is not for the uninitiated and is best done by making a fresh install of WINDOWS on a new or reformatted hard disc. There are other options such as making a new partition but again this requires some experience. Just make sure you have the necessary serial numbers and discs to reload the machine if you reformat the hard disc.

Just re-read your post. Reflashing the BIOS is again not for the uninitiated so do NOT do this unless you are sure of what you are doing. I have tried and find that the Crucial Memory selector does not go back far enough to list your computer - try calling them for advice. However I do think you will see any advantage in any extra RAM unless you upgrade your OS but i suspect you would get some speed increase by making a fresh install.

Regards - Pat

PS I have just read the spec for your PC and yes it can take upto 8Gb of RAM - but - there is a foot note to the 8Gb that states that this may not be available and since you are not running a moder OS this means that your configuration can not use the extra RAM. Try ooking at :-

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/d...roduct=3239108

as HP have set out the steps to cleaning up a machine just short of a fresh install.

[larry53]

I have done a fresh install. As for the reason of adding more memory to this computer which can not accept more memory. Again HP said to me after 4 hours on the phone that this computer can go to 8 gig. Something they said was added to this computer to allow this. I am only going by what HP told me. I have done nothing on my own without their input. I needed more memory for some software I have installed in the computer. So I guess what you are telling me is that HP is wrong in telling me this computer will go up to 8 gig. Their words not mine, "you can add up to 8 gig to your computer if you get the OS reinstalled and flashed, something has happen to the OS preventing it from going to 8 gig". end of quote.

[ger21]

Sounds like HP isn't being totally clear with you.
Yes, you can put 8Gigs of ram in it, and the bios should recognise it.
But, your 32 bit version of Windows can't use it, and HP can't do anything to change that. They should be telling you that you need a 64bit version of Windows in order to use it.

I'm also curious as to what you need the RAM for? I have a 4 year old PC with 2 Gigs of RAM. As Pat says, in a 32 bit OS, programs can only use 2 Gigs anyway, so going to 4 won't help much.

If I were you, I'd upgrade to a more modern PC before trying to do any more with a 4 year old PC.

[larry53]

I agree that this computer can not be increased no more than 4 gig from the expert,honest answers to my questions on the forum. Believe me I even ask HP if a 32 bit can be increased to 8 gig. Guess what they said of course, that this computer was built to do just that. When the computer was ordered every single high end software was put in this computer. It cost 2800.00 when purchase directly from HP. Even then before it left the factory, HP stated that this computer could be increase in ram if need at a later date just by adding more memory chips. I can see now although I can not prove it, is that I was told a lie then and a half lie now. I will have to upgrade to a 64 bit computer, but it sure will not be a HP. Thanks for the help from everyone on this issue. I have gain more knowledge from this forum then hours with the experts at HP.

[wildwestpat]

Hi Larry53

You are asking the wrong question - "can I add 8Gb of memmory answer is a resounding yes" - you must not then go on to interpret the positive response which does not apply in your case. A lot of people will be using machines of this age for other operating systems such as Linux if not a more upto date version of Microsoft's Windows and this is where confusion creeps in as these users are not restrained by the 4Gb limit of the Windows XP you are running.

You wanted the answer to the question "can I get Windows XP 32bit supplied with my machine to run faster by adding more memmory than 4Gb?". This should, and I bet would' have got you the response no.

All of this is made clear on the HP support pages for your machine to which I gave you the link for the page that states the machine supports upto 8Gb of RAM. BUT there is a foot note associated with the asterix by the 8Gb that states that this may not be accessible. Unfortunately the maximum RAM table elsewhere in these pages only deals with newer Microsoft operating systems. In your case the foot note applies and you need to take other steps if you want to see if you can speed up your machine. Follow the link I gave you for a step by sep account of the basics of trimming the machine or just do a fresh install if you have the necessary source discs and licence numbers to hand..

Regards - Pat

[scudzuki]

Although the motherboard and BIOS of your PC may accept in excess of 4GB of RAM, a 32 bit OS can only address 4GB, and a portion of the 4GB that a 32 bit OS can address is reserved for system devices. This leaves 3.5 GB of addresses available to address memory. Regardless of how much memory the POST of your PC reports, you will never see more than 3.5 GB RAM reported by (and available to) the operating system. Why? Because 32 bits can only describe 4,294,967,296 unique values (2 to the power of 32), or 4 GB.

There are exceptions to this rule, but not on desktop OSes like Windows 2000 Pro, Windows XP, Vista, or 7.

32 bit Windows Server Enterprise editions include software called PAE (for physical address extensions) in the memory manager that overcome the 4GB addressing limitation inherent to a 32 bit OS.

If you don't like it you could always write a nasty letter to Bill Gates. I'm sure he'd love to hear from you.

Joe