[Miller123]

Wind energy is one of the best renewable energies available. Tapping this energy would require the installation of wind turbines. The wind turbines have blades that are rotated by the blowing wind. These blades are connected to a drive shaft that turns an electric generator to produce electricity. Installation of these wind turbines would require a huge inflow of

The working of these wind turbines is simple. When the sun heats up the air above the land, it expands and rises, giving its place to the cooler and heavier air above. This makes the wind to blow and over the airfoil shaped blades of the turbine causing them to turn. The blades are connected to a drive shaft that turns an electric generator to produce electricity.

The wind turbines are as much dependent on sun shining as it is dependent on the blowing wind. This is so because the blowing wind is the result of the sun shining.

Many new innovations and developments have taken place in the field of wind turbines. The turbines that are used in wind farms for commercial production of electric power are usually three-bladed and pointed into the wind by computer-controlled motors. These have tip speeds of up to six times the wind speed, high efficiency, and low torque ripple, which contribute to good reliability. The newer innovations have decreased the cost of producing electricity from wind 80% since 1980.

[ImanCarrot]

Hi, I'm not totaly convinced that Wind Turbines are all that efficient- we have lots of them in Scotland and, to tell the truth, they just don't make money... if they did there would be a lot more of them.

Nuclear is the way to go.

[fizzissist]

Wind energy is one of the best renewable energies available. Tapping this energy would require the installation of wind turbines. The wind turbines have blades that are rotated by the blowing wind. These blades are connected to a drive shaft that turns an electric generator to produce electricity. Installation of these wind turbines would require a huge inflow of

The working of these wind turbines is simple. When the sun heats up the air above the land, it expands and rises, giving its place to the cooler and heavier air above. This makes the wind to blow and over the airfoil shaped blades of the turbine causing them to turn. The blades are connected to a drive shaft that turns an electric generator to produce electricity.

The wind turbines are as much dependent on sun shining as it is dependent on the blowing wind. This is so because the blowing wind is the result of the sun shining.

Many new innovations and developments have taken place in the field of wind turbines. The turbines that are used in wind farms for commercial production of electric power are usually three-bladed and pointed into the wind by computer-controlled motors. These have tip speeds of up to six times the wind speed, high efficiency, and low torque ripple, which contribute to good reliability. The newer innovations have decreased the cost of producing electricity from wind 80% since 1980.

Sounds like you know a lot about wind turbines.

One question...when they go 'round, do they go Vrooosh, or Shrooosh??

[martinw]

Dear All,

Now this is a site that is worth a visit. It tells the truth about wind power, and what it contributes , in my country, towards electricity generation. Just scroll down a bit and you will see a graph and table telling us who actually is generating electricity and by which means. No Green spin, no Climate Change agenda, no politics at all....just the pure unvarnished truth...right now...

http://www.bmreports.com/bsp/bsp_home.htm

(Look for Generation by Fuel type)

Enjoy.

Best wishes,

Martin

[fizzissist]

Martinw,
What is CCGT?

[martinw]

Martinw,
What is CCGT?

They are power stations running on Natural Gas. I think the GT part is Gas Turbine, but I do not know the difference between CCGT and OCGT.

Sorry for not being much help.

Best wishes,

Martin

[martinw]

Found it!

Combined Cycle Gas Turbine and Open Cycle Gas Turbine

Martin

[bwprice100]

The working of these wind turbines is simple. When the sun heats up the air above the land, it expands and rises, giving its place to the cooler and heavier air above. This makes the wind to blow and over the airfoil shaped blades of the turbine causing them to turn. The blades are connected to a drive shaft that turns an electric generator to produce electricity.

The wind turbines are as much dependent on sun shining as it is dependent on the blowing wind. This is so because the blowing wind is the result of the sun shining.

Doesn't it also depend on the earth rotating?

[fizzissist]

Doesn't it also depend on the earth rotating?

If there were an external force, or resistence to our atmosphere, then absolutely. Problem is, the wind would then be REALLY, REALLY strong...

[martinw]

Fizz,

More stuff from the neta site...

I think INTFR is a load of nuclear generated electricity coming from undersea cables from France. The French generate about 80% of their electricity in that way, and if they have some to spare, it makes sense for Great Britain to buy it. The wind turbines are a bit weedy, are they not?

Best wishes,

Martin

[Besmer herry]

Global warming and its increasing effects have shed light on the many global environmental issues. Our planet's fragile ecosystem is under attack on many fronts as a result of industrialization and our growing transportation infrastructure. Worldwide change is needed in order to avert catastrophe, the development of alternative energy sources is absolutely necessary. The articles listed below explore environmental issues.



(nuts)
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[handlewanker]

I've yet to actually see a wind turbine, heard about them, but never actually seen one, come to think of it I've never actually seen a real live jumping about kangaroo either,...... well not in Melbourne that is, city/urban dwelling does deny you the world of nature, same goes for the wind turbine thingy's, no land around our way suitable for any turbinising on a scale that would make it feasible.

The more I read about wind turbines the more I get the impression it's one corridor fraught with problems.

From a design point of view, who would design a device that required a massive gearbox to speed the generator up to make viable power, and only has 15 years usefull life, max?

Apparently the "experts" with all their high tech knowledge thought it was the way to go, but as you lose most of your gains in the friction from gearing and their lubrication it's a wonder they haven't seen the light and redesigned.

For my money I would favour anything that involved tidal power, be it from water turbines, wave generators, or rise and fall in tidal ponds etc, sea related energy sources are guaranteed a constant reaction process, but wind power can go for days without any wind and then only enough to stir the daisys.

Sun power is dependant on lack of cloud cover, but the sea in any form is constantly in motion, 24/7 and that represents constant energy for free.

To give an example of sea power, try standing up against a tidal flow 3 to 4 MPH waist deep on the sea shore, and then compare it to a 30 or 40 MPH wind, if and when it ever blows that strong for any period of time, no comparison.

Someone suggested that a supertanker convoy could be "driven" through the ocean by having a deep "sail" under water attached to a cable to harness the various tidal flows without using any on board oil burning machinery, but a bank of batteries to move the ships from one tidal flow source to another, might take more time to get there, but hey, tidal flow power is for nix, just allow for the flow time, but then again pigs might fly too.
Ian.

PS, I just remembered, when I was a boy there was a windmill on the farm we camped on, that pumped water for the live stock, so wind power probably has been doing more than we realise, especially in Holland etc, very debateable.

[flash319]

" the good is not the enemy of the perfect" (can't remember the guys name)

[rldmachine]

I work for a large Utility in Texas. WE have a mixed portfolio of energy Ie coal,Gas , Combined cycle Gas turbines, Open cycle Gas Turbines Nuclear solar and Wind. The problem with wind is multiply fold. no matter what means you generate Power it must be used it can not be stored. with wind at least here in texas the strongest winds are at nite when demand is low.to use this powe other load must be cycled generally a fossil fuel. you think that is good get rid of the polution. well when you cycle a fossil unit you make MORE polution and cause cost per magawatt to increase. second there is line congestion trying to get the power where you need to use it. remember where you saw all those wind mills way out in west texas where ther is little population and no industry! you have to send all that power hundreds of miles to thu users! the free wind gets expensive in a hurry when you take all the factors in to consideration look at any rate structure for any utility that offers you to select how your "Green" power is generated and wind is the most expensive.Nuclear is By far the most economical and cleanest energy avaliable to us at the present time.this has even been acknowledged by our present administration Mr Obama... every one knows there aint no free puppy

[flash319]

I work for a large Utility in Texas. WE have a mixed portfolio of energy Ie coal,Gas , Combined cycle Gas turbines, Open cycle Gas Turbines Nuclear solar and Wind. The problem with wind is multiply fold. no matter what means you generate Power it must be used it can not be stored. with wind at least here in texas the strongest winds are at nite when demand is low.to use this powe other load must be cycled generally a fossil fuel. you think that is good get rid of the polution. well when you cycle a fossil unit you make MORE polution and cause cost per magawatt to increase. second there is line congestion trying to get the power where you need to use it. remember where you saw all those wind mills way out in west texas where ther is little population and no industry! you have to send all that power hundreds of miles to thu users! the free wind gets expensive in a hurry when you take all the factors in to consideration look at any rate structure for any utility that offers you to select how your "Green" power is generated and wind is the most expensive.Nuclear is By far the most economical and cleanest energy avaliable to us at the present time.this has even been acknowledged by our present administration Mr Obama... every one knows there aint no free puppy

So maybe the answer is power storage not production. How much energy is stored that we produce? None.

Since you are in the energy sector you would know better then I what the benifit of energy storage would bring. No more cycling, no more load bottle necks........

Change to the current thinking about how we use and produce energy is the problem IMO. We think about it the same way we did 100 years ago. There are some technologies out there that can be improved that may make wind power more economical (compressed air storage is one).

I don't know how you can say that nuclear energy is clean. That's like saying the toilet is clean once I flush it. The crap went down the "hole" and disapeared into another dimension never to be seen again...........Where do the spent rods go?

[handlewanker]

LOL...."where do the spent rods go".....oh sh!t, I thought at first that was a pun, but when I sobered up I realised yo' was thinkin' of the spent fuel rods in the Nuclear thingy....very funny...yeah so was Chernobyl.

You're quite right of course about the problem with storage, and even more so, back in the days of the industrial revolution in UK they placed the iron smelters near the coalfields to lessen the cost of the iron, also they built a system of canals to make transport cheaper!!!!!, but "they" also allowed the canal system to decay when somebody decided they needed to get A to B faster, and so oil killed off the barge industry.

The point is, if you have large capacity energy generation capability, but no one to use it, it's a bit like having a car but the road hasn't reached your neighbourghood yet.

Storage is a bit like taking a dollar out of your back pocket and changing it into cents and putting them into your side pocket, gives you a nice feeling jangling the dollar, but you aren't any richer.

So somebody better take note of the availability of that excess wind energy where nobody goes, and set up a smelter or something, or anything that uses lots of power that nobody wants in their suburban dream locality, that is dirty messy and pollutes the air for miles but don't annoy even the Coyotes...LOL.

I once worked and lived in a desert town 500 miles from nowhere, and the surface mining could be described as an environmental disaster, if'n you were an over concerned enviro nut, sniffing the daisy's that grew wild, but that didn't stop the mining consortium from removing 20 ft of overburden miles wide at a time, to get at the deposits of........shhh secret......and leaving a bare earth/sand landscape behind them, but after a few years the land re-generated and the daisy's grew again, and so the enviro nuts were happy.

Moral is, make maximum use of the available bounty, keep the enviro nuts on a tight leash, and don't expect to "pick up a turd by the clean end".....LOL.
Ian.

[fizzissist]

"....If the Pocono Raceway built this solar farm they could take out a 18 million dollar loan at 6.5% for 25 years. Of course no bank would ever loan anyone money for this boondoggle. So the Government will, in the form of Federal and State tax credits and renewable energy mandates. An 18 million dollar loan at 6.5% for 25 years would create a yearly payment of 1.45 million dollar per year to pay off the loan, that is without the maintenance costs.

So we will pay 1.45 million dollars per year to create 3.4 million kWhours per year. Divide 1.45/3.4 to result in a cost of 42 cents per kWhour. This 42 cents is not the final cost, because there is the maintenance costs, and new transmission lines which must be constructed and also we must consider this plant will only have an average output of 13%, because it never works at night, it will only have full output when the sun is directly overhead, and the frequent clouds even on sunny days will decrease its' output, that's how you get to 13%. .."


http://www.nofreewind.com/2010/08/po...r-project.html

Ok, all you greenies, by a show of hands....who wants to pay $.42/kwh to "stop global warming"??

[flash319]

I do because I love my kids and want them to have somewhere nice to live.

[handlewanker]

Forget it Flash, you'd go bankrupt and have to spend the kids inheritance just to live.

The point Fizzwizz is making is - who wants to spend that much money when it's much cheaper to just flick on the light switch, so conveniently attached by a long cable to Nuclear, gas fired, or coal fired producers, whatever, but like a lot of other users, he/she conveniently forgets that we're thinking in terms of the day when the "Earth stands still", metaphorically speaking, or when the oil,coal Nuke stuff runs out.

Then you'll pay whatever it takes, look at petrol prices then and now.

Anyone with a laptop with a dying battery can relate 100% to this scenario...whatever it takes.

It won't happen today and it won't happen tomorrow, but it WILL happen.

So how long and when do you start to design up a new fangled installation/facility to get the juice to the 'burbs, without the deep freezers melting down and the aircons running out of puff?

Maybe the outlying districs will be the only ones with the "cheap or only power", while the 'burbs are fighting for an amp or two.

The whole point missed by all is that there are too many users for the available "green power" production methods that could be used, and too little spare land to make it useable for the present population without extrapolating the pop' growth in the next 50 years.

Oil from corn, gas from rubbish dumps, electrics from wave, wind, water power, all combined would just make dent in the present consumption rate.

So get rid of the grid, with it's % power loss and running cost nationally, grid power is for when you've got it coming out of your ears, and make the power locally with whatever, user pays.

One thing's for sure, the lights of the city won't shine so brightly when it's "green" for go.

I don't suppose anyone has actually worked out over the 24 hr day just how little they can get by with using electricity for whatever and alternatives for the rest.
Ian.

[fizzissist]

I do because I love my kids and want them to have somewhere nice to live.

...Think about how nice that somewhere will be if you pay TWICE that!!!