[lcvette]

I don't think I would do that if I were you, to many other better choices in this price range. I would look at other options if I were in your shoes.

[slowhitEJ1]

Basically I want something that will cover the following
-Similar speed range of my machine (1050-10600-I would accomplish it using this motor with pulleys)
-similar size-my motor is ~11lbs, and a 56C frame. Something smaller like this would be nice so I can mount it behind the ISO20 tool change spindle I'm building instead of off the side like factory
-more power.
-Most importantly, speed controllable throug mach3 . I'm adding a tool changer, it just seems asinine to me to still have to change each pulley speed, and have an ATC at the same time
-110V- I live in base housing, and while I'm not completely against wiring my garage for 220, my housing department is lol. I will still do it if I need to and just fix it before I move out.
-somewhat reliable. I don't mind tinkering, but as I said I don't get a lot of time at home, so when I do I like to get stuff done, and that means not messing around and fixing things.

What other options are you referring too?

[lcvette]

The 1100w motor on 110v pulleyed like you are referring too is going to be a very poor performer unless all you use are 1/8th inch or smaller endmills.

That 1100w is way over rated on power. A 56c 1-1.5hp would be much better suited and less money.

If your dead set on the BLDC, I would look at the Adlee driver setup, you'll spend more but you'll have better performance. Also anything over a 1:1 pulley ratio is probably not going to do anything for you that you want. 6000rpm for that machine should do anything you want anyway unless you want to do small endmills like I said.

[hoss2006]

EJ1, Hahaha, you sure about that? 56C's are pretty big motors, a 1.5 hp would weigh over half of the entire weight of a taig, probably snap the head off.
At 11 lbs and that rpm you'd be looking at a dc motor like a treadmill motor which are easy to control via Mach 3 and affordable.
Pretty sure there are a couple of threads in the taig forum about this.
Read here for more ideas keeping in mind these are for the bigger G0704/bf20 mills but the other DC motor links 1,2,3 or 6 should work for a taig.
Projects
Hoss

[lcvette]

I was wondering about that but thought he said he was running a 56c.

My only issue with the treadmill motors were the arching and eating of brushes. They never lasted any decent length of time if you wanted to run rpm over 3000 or so for any length of time.

The main difference I have seen between the adlee motor and drivers vs the Chinese (model I have) is the adlee doesn't seem to bog down when put under load.. Within reason of course.

If you compare the above videos I posted vs these:

https://youtu.be/FoChkN0ga8U

[hoss2006]

Lots of people including me got a lot of work out of a treadmill motor and brushes can be replaced if you buy a really used one on ebay.
Just depends on what kind of treadmill it came out of, one that got sweaty or one that was a clothes rack.
Still, new ones are an option as well as the other new dc motors on the page.
A taig doesn't need or can handle a lot of power, they only ship with 1/4hp.
Hoss

[lcvette]

Mine were certainly used and required new brushes upon arrival. I imagine the armature was in pretty bad shape which may have led to constant arcing.

If you go tread mill mirror I agree with the statement to get a new/low use unit.

[slowhitEJ1]

I don't think it could perform worse than a 1/4HP 1ph 110v motor with stepped pullies and a tiny belt could it? Not being a smart ass, that's a legit question.

And I DO use >6000 rpm most times. My normal cuts are 16IPM, .050 stepover, .250 doc with a 1/4" endmill at 6700rpm. Engraving and stuff gets 10600 rpm. Even if the 2:1 pulley puts me at half the power of the 1100, I'd still be more then double my current spindle motor right?

Hoss, I'm not really sure what is said that was funny, but from what I've read, the 56C is the stock motor frame size for the CNC version of the taig and I'm fine with staying in the 56C frame, but even a .5 HP from automation direct weighs 28lbs. I don't want to put that much weight on the Z. Or any part of it really..

I'll look more into treadmill motors. I was trying to stay away from repurposing things and get something purpose built, mostly for the reliability aspect I talked about earlier

[hoss2006]

I chuckled because I can picture the 40 lb 56C motor I have on a 65 lb taig.
They have motor dimensions on the 56c motor pages at automation direct, you could make a cardboard mockup like I did to get an idea of it's size on the mill.
If high rpm is what you want maybe look into the chinese water cooled ones.
CNC Spindles & VFDs | Automation Technology Inc
Hoss

[toddbeau]

I'm still figuring this thing out but this is the 1100W motor 1:1, 3800rpm .250"doc, 16ipm, 50% stepover, 1/4" 4 flute hss

[Fastest1]

I would try more or less stepover, either way but 50% is a PIA.

[lcvette]

Exactly, if you hear how bad it bogs down and that's with a 1/4" endmill, .25" doc and slow feed rate, everytime it moves to the next step it bogs way down. The recovery in these motor drivers is slow. Imagine over driving it. The adlee video I posted above bogs almost to a stall but had a much more consistent rpm through the various loads it is seeing. Those were also full width cuts over 1" deep with a 12mm em. That's a tall order for any small mill motor.

According to the supplied data the adlee is using a 1:2 belt reduction so that may help, but I think these Chinese motor/drivers are still going to respond the same way even with a reduction, which is with a hefty rpm drop upon initial loading. Over driving it isn't going to be a pretty sight and will only exacerbate the situation.

You may not think this is a problem, but it is because mach doesn't know your spindle speed has changed, so all the chip loading gets screwy because the feed rate per revolution goes wonky during these times. Can result in broken tools, bad parts, wasted stock/time etc.

I have no first hand experience with the adlee admittedly, but it appears to be a much better performer and a nice driver. I also saw a video where they were able to do ridged tapping, that's a pipe dream with these motors, and I run the 2.2kw model on 220v.

That's tells me something.

[slowhitEJ1]

As far as the VFD and spindle go, again, I don't want to have to rewire my garage for 220. I will if I absolutely need to, but this looks to be a decent alternative. I've got 70% of a tool changer done, including the $400 worth of bearings, and a professionally ground spindle shaft. I have to make the body and a couple other parts, build the rotary union, mount the air cylinder, and some perifery stuff and I'm done, so getting a Chinese spindle doesn't do anything for me but keep me in an ER collet, and make me add more plumbing and another pump. The spindle speeds I have now are fine for what I do, I would just like to still be able to use those.

I'm extending my head out about 1.5" when I make the new spindle, and moving the y axis out about an inch so that my spindle sits in the middle of my Y travel. That will give me the space to mount this motor behind the head and take it off of the side of the Z, which is a huge benefit.

You mentioned the 1100's were under rated. Sorry but when I hear underrated, I think of car dealers understating horsepower for insurance reasons, and the car actually comes with more power then advertised. Is this the case with the 1100? After reading from page 1, I'm guessing that's not the case, but please advise.
-With that, even if the 1100 makes less than 1.5 HP. My taig is a small machine, shipped with a 1/4HP spindle. I've been doing more 1018 and 304 lately, so even 1 HP would be a significant upgrade from what I have now, and the ability to add a decent sized timing belt instead of the tiny v belt is also a plus, AND, I wouldn't have to change it 3-4 times during one operation.
-I think I read the 1100 motor weighs about 5 lbs. also a benefit over my 11lb off center motor I have now. I've got 425ozin keiling motors on all 4 axes, and I can still only lift the z at about 25ipm before the motor misses steps.

I'm here to ask your advice, because all of you know more about this than i do, so please don't take my comments as negative or argumentative. Maybe I'm blinded by the awe of a motor that looks like it has everything I want, but I am not seeing how the negatives are outweighing the benefits of upgrading to this motor over the one I have now.

[Deinonychus]

you could use a metric frame 3phase motor, the frame sizes on them are smaller than the 56C, for instance, an 1-1/2hp with a frame of D80C has the same bolt pattern as the bldc 1100kw motor. the next size down, D71C, is even smaller and goes up to approximately 3/4hp. the 1-1/2hp leeson aluminum frame motor weighs 27lb though. the 3/4 hp 1800 rpm D71C leeson motor weighs 15lb. I myself am putting the 1-1/2hp D80C on my G0704, with a hitachi WSJ200 vfd.

[toddbeau]

Exactly, if you hear how bad it bogs down and that's with a 1/4" endmill, .25" doc and slow feed rate, everytime it moves to the next step it bogs way down. The recovery in these motor drivers is slow. Imagine over driving it. The adlee video I posted above bogs almost to a stall but had a much more consistent rpm through the various loads it is seeing. Those were also full width cuts over 1" deep with a 12mm em. That's a tall order for any small mill motor.

According to the supplied data the adlee is using a 1:2 belt reduction so that may help, but I think these Chinese motor/drivers are still going to respond the same way even with a reduction, which is with a hefty rpm drop upon initial loading. Over driving it isn't going to be a pretty sight and will only exacerbate the situation.

You may not think this is a problem, but it is because mach doesn't know your spindle speed has changed, so all the chip loading gets screwy because the feed rate per revolution goes wonky during these times. Can result in broken tools, bad parts, wasted stock/time etc.

I have no first hand experience with the adlee admittedly, but it appears to be a much better performer and a nice driver. I also saw a video where they were able to do ridged tapping, that's a pipe dream with these motors, and I run the 2.2kw model on 220v.

That's tells me something.

It's basically worthless at low rpm. But their test uses a rougher and if it was 1:1 their chart shows approx 850W of power at the rpm I ran it. I may run 220 over to the supply to see how it responds, but for now I'm planning on a 20% reduction and to enable my path rules from my plasma table to slow on corners.

Thanks for the stepover tip Fastest1, I was coping his cuts to show how it works.

[1hander]

i really want to buy this but it still doesnt look good...anybody mounted the 2.2kw on the o704

todd...have you tried it on 220

[lcvette]

Yup, I did check the video link above under my name, I put a few videos together doing various operations for people's review on YouTube.

[1hander]

im wanting to do a 56c but i didnt realize how big it was..... i think the 2200 your running is pretty decent... i dont want to wire for 220 but at least i can run at 120 till i add another 220 outlet...are you happy with how hard ypou can push that 2200 .... is it running on 115 or 220

[lcvette]

Happy over the stock motor yes, happy for what it should be? No

I think a 56c would be a better alternative especially for the money these cost. Or look into the adlee BLDC motor and driver. I think their performance is significantly better.

Running 220 is pretty easy if you haven't done it before, assuming your electrical panel is in your garage.

[1hander]

yea... i was hoping you wouldnt say that LOL...a 160.00 56c will make those cuts with no bogging at all...i honestly think that if you had control of the settings you could easily adjust it ..

.theres a guy on youtube making some serious chips with a 56c and emerson drive... it really imporessed me..no bogging...just a steady stream of chips flying 3 feet from the endmill...looks awesome

buyt the weight is what im worried about...i need a PDB..thats more weight...im extending the bed to 12-13inches....so the headspacer will be more weight...you know