[SCzEngrgGroup]

Hello Ray & Thanks for the help!
I'm almost sure that I've got something set up wrong?
I just don't have the experience to fix it easily.
I have a L100 - Hitachi set to output 59.9 hz @ 4200 rpm.
It runs good at the upper end of the range.
At 2500 rpm - 32.2 hz
At 500 rpm - 7.0 hz (lowest speed for high gear)

The manual says "The high-performance L100 can rotate at a very slow speed with high torque, but not zero"
I know I have something NOT set right because at 1000 rpm - 8.0 hz, I can reach up and stop the spindle with one bare hand!!!!:boxing:
It's somewhat obvious that something's not right?
That's when I have "power" issues... at the lower frequency range. Once I get around 3000 rpm -40.4 hz, machine seems to have enough power and cuts nicely.

My next major project is CNC'ing a small, Elgin manual collet lathe, thus I'm still interested in the possiblity of using the DC motor for spindle control..... It would be great having RPM's in the 6000 range for the lathe.

Thanks, Tim Bostic

A VFD will give you reduced torque at lower frequencies. A sensorless vector drive VFD will do better at lower frequencies. I don't know if yours is sensorless vector or not. But, no VFD will give you full torque at low RPM, and neither will a low-cost open-loop DC drive. My VFD does OK down to perhaps 30 Hz. If I need to go slower and need high torque, I change the belt to a different pulley to get the VFD frequency back up. You can also run the VFD well beyond 60Hz. I run mine up to 120Hz, which gives me 8200 RPM at the spindle.

Regards,
Ray L.

[Desertrunner]

Tim VFD's can be a trap you need to check what is on the name plate of the motor, for example if it something like 1200 rpm and the VFD is set at 4,000 the motor won't like it. I have units in the factory and we have tried to over step them by increasing hz & or revs and the motors have actually lost performance so start by matching the name plate. Also is the motor wired star or delta. The reason is if you have the motor wired for higher voltage but running on lower you won't get it power. I am not a electrician but have some understanding.
Is the VFD 3 phase in or single phase?
Tony

[Steoh]

Thanks for sharing all the info on these motors. I was seriously considering buying one before I read about them. On a lighter note, I've posted a couple of images below, see if you can spot any similarities

[Journey_Man]

Here is a Link to the Origional Thread where the Motors/Controls were advertised...I am still going to Buy when they get the Control Fixed...Just thought I would post it here too....
Just In New!2200W 3000~10000RPM BLDC Motor Controller - Page 7 - CNCzone.com-The Largest Machinist Community on the net!

[Steoh]

Don't you mean IF they get the control fixed. Admittedly, it is refreshing to see the manufacturer is a member here, and keeps everybody up to date on progress, as well as promising a replacement once the problem is rectified. I watch on with great interest.

[Flexo!]

I've been using this kit for a while now. It's faultless with the small cutters I'm using (3-4mm), but you don't need 1100w for a 3 mm cutter... Starts to choke with 5mm while plunging.

While they might be able to fix the accel/PID time, I looks like it'll still be a "fixed" system, i.e. no adjustable parameters (other than RPM of course). Even the cruddiest of chinese VFD's have the option to change these settings. It seems like Sangmutan are ignoring what's been standard since, forever?

I'm starting to have concerns about the heat build up... but I'll leave that for another day.

FYI, got a price for a Taiwanese 1500w BLDC Motor & Controller set, USD $357.00 "Wholesale". Larger frame motor though - 130mm square. Looks like the real deal, incredible detail in the manuals. Tempted to buy a "sample"...

[gandalf69]

Don't you mean IF they get the control fixed. Admittedly, it is refreshing to see the manufacturer is a member here, and keeps everybody up to date on progress, as well as promising a replacement once the problem is rectified. I watch on with great interest.

Where did Zhang promise a replacement controller to everyone who bought this kit? He hasn't offered me one.

Besides the controller lack of PID, there are a couple of other potential issues with the motor itself. One is the really amateurish cable entry to the motor with no effective cable restraint. The other is that the actual motor doesn't occupy much of the space inside the frame which means that if you managed to develop the rated output of 2200W it would probably get very hot and possibly ruin the magnets, depending on their material. I would hope that someone can dispel that concern.
BTW, if tempted, do not remove the rotor from the frame as that will likely destroy the magnets also. And yes, I did remove an end cover without removing the rotor, I wanted to check out a 'ticking' noise, it was some shellac being thrown around inside the motor.

[cjdavis618]

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/870468-post77.html

[Steoh]

Where did Zhang promise a replacement controller to everyone who bought this kit? He hasn't offered me one.

Here...

Hi everyone

Our engineers are modifying software programs,you know sometime the software need to Constant adjustment, then do experimental detection,Please give us some time ,when it is ok ,i will tell you,and sent the MCU PCB to kelinginc.

Best regards
zhang

[rwskinner]

They told me they had the problem solved and was about to finish up testing. He also said he was going to be sending KelingInc a new shipment and mentioned being able to update or swap controllers with folks that have issues.

>>now the problem is sloved ,we have give the new controller to the >>machine factory to test .
>>Hardware needs to replace a resistor, software need to modify the >>program.when they test Ok ,i will help you to change it ,maybe i need to >>send the new MCU to you ,for you to change.



I'm anxiously waiting for Mr. CJDavis to get his updated and then fill us in with the details.





Richard

[gandalf69]

They told me they had the problem solved and was about to finish up testing. He also said he was going to be sending KelingInc a new shipment and mentioned being able to update or swap controllers with folks that have issues.

>>now the problem is sloved ,we have give the new controller to the >>machine factory to test .
>>Hardware needs to replace a resistor, software need to modify the >>program.when they test Ok ,i will help you to change it ,maybe i need to >>send the new MCU to you ,for you to change.

I'm anxiously waiting for Mr. CJDavis to get his updated and then fill us in with the details.


Richard

Good stuff, I too will await news of the replacement controller board with baited breath.

[cjdavis618]

I'm gald to hear that. (Althought I hate moving my machine to change it out again.) As soon as I hear something on the updated controller from John or Zhang, I will get it installed and start testing again.

I have to say that so far with smaller bits it isn't that bad, but I have had a couple of smaller expensive endmills snap because of the speed variations. If the torque is there on this new update, I will test with my other spindle pulleys. Factory is 1:.5 then I have a 1:1 and then a 2:1 which will make my speeds on the mill reach 6k and 12k respectively. (Although my bearings won't take more than 9k.) Still a huge improvement though over the 3k I am limited to now with the torque issues.

[rwskinner]

cjdavis,
Did you make or buy your motor pulleys? I'm not set up right now to make them although I'm getting closer. I sure would like to get "at least" in the 3000-3500 rpm range (Factory motor still which I think mine is only 5K-RPM)

Richard

I will test with my other spindle pulleys. Factory is 1:.5 then I have a 1:1 and then a 2:1 which will make my speeds on the mill reach 6k and 12k respectively. (Although my bearings won't take more than 9k.) Still a huge improvement though over the 3k I am limited to now with the torque issues.

[rwskinner]

I surely hope their new motor is much quieter and a lot smoother than the one in my Harley!!!

Richard

On a lighter note, I've posted a couple of images below, see if you can spot any similarities

[eartaker]

What size of machine are you guys using this on? It is listed as 3HP so do you think it would work on a ZX-45 clone?

[cjdavis618]

cjdavis,
Did you make or buy your motor pulleys? I'm not set up right now to make them although I'm getting closer. I sure would like to get "at least" in the 3000-3500 rpm range (Factory motor still which I think mine is only 5K-RPM)

Richard

Yes, I made these.

I'm using mine on an SX3 that had an original speed of 1800rpm so I know what you mean. Just by adding the Sangmutan 1100w kit, I was able to use factory pulleys and get up to 3000rpm. (Exactly half of the rated speed of Sangmutan)

At one time I had made an identical pulley size to the front with 45 grooves and then mated that to the motor shaft of the Grizzly motor. At that time with the factory motor, I was able to get a full 3600 rpm out of the mill. Then I went one step further and made a pulley that was 18 groove for the spline and then reversed the ratio again. That did get me to 7150 with the factory motor.

Once these torque issues are resolved, I will start to work on that again and test those speeds and torque curves. except now the pulleys that I have should put out 6k and then 12k respectively.

[cjdavis618]

What size of machine are you guys using this on? It is listed as 3HP so do you think it would work on a ZX-45 clone?

If they get thise torque issues fixed, it would be big enough for a bridgeport. But it would work fine on a ZX45 I would think. I don't know about the ZX45 bearings though.

[rwskinner]

CJ,
How was the torque with stock motor with the 1:1 ratio?

Richard

[cjdavis618]

Alot better than the Sangmutan right now. lol.


As for what I can remember, I didn't see any noticable issues with the torque with the 1:1 speeds. Only when I went to the 18 tooth spline pulley did I start to see torque loss.


I'm looking forward to getting the controller fixed so I can prototype my new pulley design. I think alot of power is lost in the SX3 due to the spline slop, and it certainly can't help the finish of the parts. I have a solution, but I need to get a couple of orders in first with some tooling I have on the way.

[rwskinner]

Wow CJ, you replied before I finished editing my message about the Tach Readout....