[SWATH]

The Mikini is faster and takes up less space and is fully enclosed which was best for the space I have. If the 770 tormach had been released earlier I may have gone that way.

The reason for the second machine was for growth.

Did you get the 4th axis? If so can it do both turning like a lathe and indexing like in this video or does it require a servo to do this?
http://www.youtube.com/user/Simpsons...10/295Phu8GnjE

[howecnc]

How do they compare with regard to precision? In particular, what is the tightest tolerance you find you're reliably able to hold with each? For me, that's just as critical as speed.

Thanks again. -Pat

I am a believer that any machine can make any part if the talent is there to make it happen. Both machines can make any part that I take for work and hold tighter tolerances than I can measure in some cases.

If you were to jog the Tormach in step mode of .0001 with an indicator on a surface you won't see the needle jump until you have hit the button about 5 times. At that point you will see the needle move .0005.

Same test with the Mikini you get .0001 for 0001.

The tram of the head on the Mikini was .0003 right out of the box.
I have never gotten the head of the Tormach better than .002 in X and .0005 in Y.
I think that both machines perform as advertised as far as accuracy.

[howecnc]

Did you get the 4th axis? If so can it do both turning like a lathe and indexing like in this video or does it require a servo to do this?
http://www.youtube.com/user/Simpsons...10/295Phu8GnjE

I did not see the need to get the 4th axis for the Mikini where I already had it for the Tormach.
I don't believe that Mikini is going to offer anything similar to the duality lathe.

[mcphill]

Did you get the 4th axis? If so can it do both turning like a lathe and indexing like in this video or does it require a servo to do this?
http://www.youtube.com/user/Simpsons...10/295Phu8GnjE

The Mikini 4th axis is a traditional stepper system, not made for turning at all, it is made for accurate low speed positional indexing.

[SWATH]

The Mikini 4th axis is a traditional stepper system, not made for turning at all, it is made for accurate low speed positional indexing.

I see, that's what I thought. How would one get a 4th axis to both turn and index like in the video? It this in the realm of a home build with a servo motor?

Howecnc,

Did you purchase yours with the integrated controller? What option did you add? How long for delivery?

[mcphill]

It all depends on your specific needs. It can be "easily" built, but in general low backlash and high speed are conflicting priorities. I would think it would be cheaper to have to solutions rather than a single compromised one...

[SWATH]

1. Do you feel servos would add much performance?

Yes, depending on application. They are 750W per axis vs 300W. They do
however have different torque curves, and are better suited to high feed
rates, typically used in production. They are $1000 per axis (XY or XYZ).

2. Can the 4th axis do turning? Perhaps with a servo? Can you tell me
more about the 4th axis (I can't find any info or videos)?

Sure, happy to send over a specification sheet. See followup email. Stay
within axial limits and you can turn on the 4th axis or broach with the
machine. Your material removal rates will be very slow, as with some of
the bed mounted turning products available. It can also be used as a live
4th axis unlike other conversion based rotary solutions.

3. Will the machine run on just a 220v dryer outlet?

Yes, 220V single phase. (Machine operates from 200-250VAC 50/60HZ single
phase natively without converter). No other machine of this total drive
power does this to our knowledge.

4. Does it have levelers for the feet?

Leveling mounts are not included, but provided for in the casting if
desired. Kits are available for $150 if needed (4 mounts). The Machine
does not require leveling to achieve precision (Stiffer than it's own
weight).

5. Can I use my own desktop computer?

Sure, Assuming it is reliable, has a clean timing signal, and running 32
bit hardware and software, without networking. Expect to spend 5-40 hours
debugging and setting up if you are not familiar with Motion control. As a
point of reference, about 70% of our machines are configured with
installed integrated controllers. If you strike out after trying your
solution, or end up needing more reliability down the road, our controller
can be user installed in a few hours.

6. What affordable Cam software do you recommend?

We carry Bobcad Cam. $500 with the machine. We also carry Visual Mill
($995). Happy to talk through the differences.

7. Does the spindle do rigid tapping?

Yes, it has encoded feedback for rigid tapping. It requires user setup and
interfacing to EMC2 (Mach does not support it yet).

8. What tool holders would you recommend?

We highly recommend the use of ER series Collet chucks, and build them in
ER25 (up to 1/2") and ER40 (1/2" up to 1") sizes for the machines. $200 /
$300 in kits with wrenches, fractional collets and cases.

9. Can you use a power draw bar?

We do not recommend the use of a power drawbar for many reasons (happy to discuss) on the 1610L. We do recommend the use of a cordless impact to
actuate. See our video. Same concept as a power drawbar. If you desire,
any of the bridgeport retrofit kits can be adapted to the 1610L.

10. What is the lead time from order to delivery?

Typically 1-2 weeks. Varies slightly with order volume, standard and
custom options. We custom build machines for special applications as an
aside.

11. What comes in your tooling package?

Everything you need to get started out of the box. 10 pc HSS fractional
end mill set, R8 Collet set (4 pc, fractional), 6" mikini angle lock vise,
5/8 Tslot clamping set (52 pc).

12. What is "spindle position orientation"?

Encoding of the spindle for tapping above. Not offered on most benchtop
machines. Typically a option on industrial machines.

13. Are there any upgrades/add-ons going to be available to future proof
the machine?

Yes, the machine and control system are built with this in mind. Unlike
the vast majority of machines, our control and drive systems are totally
modular, replaceable and upgradeable.

14. How do you recommend moving the machine from crate to workspace?

Depends on your workspace and equipment available. We offer overhead lift
kits, provide forklift slots in the base, and toe jack points in the
casting. It can also be moved with a pallet jack. The crate base is a
fabricated steel frame.

15. Why is 200ipm rapids recommended over something faster?

Liability. 200 IPM on a 16x10" workspace is really quick. The machine can
physically go faster, but we cannot ensure our dedicated and proprietary
safety system could slow down or stop the machine in the over travel range
before causing physical damage.

16. Can the machine be in an uninsulated garage subject to heat and cold?

Sure. We recommend it is kept above freezing and is thermally limited from
overheating. And of course, this will cause the machine to slightly expand
and contract.

That's all for now, sorry but I have a lot of questions.

No problem. Happy to answer more.

I am in the process of remodeling my garage and plan to remove the door going into the basement so I can fit a machine through. Ideally I would have the machine in the basement if I can fit it. The opening is ~37in. when I remove the jam and framing so my options are limited if the machine cannot be kept in the garage.

The machine was designed to go through a 36" door fully assembled. No
problem. Note that machines of similar travel, and even smaller machines
cannot do this without disassembly.


Thanks.

[mcphill]

Funny. I would say 80% of those questions are the exact same ones I asked, and the answers are the same as I received as well...

[howecnc]

I see, that's what I thought. How would one get a 4th axis to both turn and index like in the video? It this in the realm of a home build with a servo motor?

Howecnc,

Did you purchase yours with the integrated controller? What option did you add? How long for delivery?

Yes I got the integrated controller. I also got the touch screen. about 2 weeks.

[roberto123]

Hello, I am thinking to make upgrades to the mikini 2008 I own, first of all...

Powerdraw bar (the Syil's powerdraw bar looks great but... $$$$, maybe Kurt powerlock)
Tormach tooling system (definitely is a must!)

Have anyone done it?

[SWATH]

Mikini ordered! Yea!

[mcphill]

Mikini ordered! Yea!

Congrats! Do you have an estimated delivery date?

[SWATH]

Congrats! Do you have an estimated delivery date?

Not yet but due to demand Phil estimated about 5 weeks.

[SWATH]

So I'm getting together a list of things to make this machine come alive. What kind of tooling would you guys recommend? I'm looking at getting a couple of Glacern vices and the ER40 collet set, and around 10 ER40 R8 collet chucks, a couple of drill chucks, and a 3" facemill from Maritool.

What are your thoughts on these?

Also I have no indicators or probes. I was originally looking at a 3D Taster to knock out all three axis on one tool then maybe a tool height probe to touch off tool offsets. I'm also thinking about a touch probe. What do you guys think I should do about these?

[howecnc]

Tooling would depend on the type of work you are doing. Mari Tool is great stuff with great prices. I went with ER32 which I feel are a little big for the endmills I typically use. I make a lot of small parts. I actually bought some ER16 collet chuck from Hertel. They are high in price but great for 1/8 endmills and smaller. I would also try to get a smaller facemill. I went with the same facemill you are talking about and the machine does handle it but I think something 2" and smaller would be a little better.

[BPR]

Aloha All,

Just ordered mine also. Should be here in 4-5 weeks! What a great Christmas this is going to be! I'll post my experiences as well, and we can all compare notes. Like most, I did a lot of research and evaluating before making my choice. Almost bought a Syil X7... really glad I didn't now. I think the Mikini is the way to go, and like most people report, Phil is great.

As an aside, after I made my decision, I found out that he used to live here on the Big Island close to me, and Mikini is Hawaiian for Machine!

Paul

[jeffrey001]

Aloha All,

Almost bought a Syil X7... really glad I didn't now. I think the Mikini is the way to go, and like most people report, Phil is great.



Paul

Some time ago, I was considering a Syil X7, with all extra, what is the point that make you change your mind and buy a 1610.

Jeff

[BPR]

Some time ago, I was considering a Syil X7, with all extra, what is the point that make you change your mind and buy a 1610.

Jeff

Aloha Jeffrey,

There are many things that drove my decision. Support is extremely important, and even though Mikini is a relatively new company they have an excellent support record from what I can tell.

Here are a few reasons in no particular order...

1) The fact that it is the closest to being 100% american made of all the mini mills.
2) It uses a custom Meehanite casting for the frame, and not a copy of the other asian mills.
3) It has a manual interface on the machine for quick & dirty work.
4) Full, well thought out custom enclosure.
5) Read nothing but good reviews everywhere.
6) (Drumroll here) Phil used to live here on the Big Island, and Mikini is Hawaiian for "Machine"!

Its just a well designed solid piece of machinery and it weighs a ton. The casting was designed from the ground up to increase rigidity.

None of this is to say that the Syil isn't a good machine, but their models are confusing, and getting information from them is inconsistent. I like the fact that Mikini makes one model, and has improved on it year after year instead of trying to cover all price ranges and options.

Hope this helps,

Paul

[jeffrey001]

Thanks BRP for the reply.

It has been months since I asked for the Syil V7 with full enclosure, ATC and servo motor.

The kit is not ready yet but what I want, is really a machine with tool changer.

I'm also looking with linear rails, not dovetail.

The X7 look like a great machine, but like you said, support does not seems to be their strength. Does the Mikini offer option for spindle, like BT30 or something similar.

Jeff

[BPR]

Thanks BRP for the reply.

It has been months since I asked for the Syil V7 with full enclosure, ATC and servo motor.

The kit is not ready yet but what I want, is really a machine with tool changer.

I'm also looking with linear rails, not dovetail.

The X7 look like a great machine, but like you said, support does not seems to be their strength. Does the Mikini offer option for spindle, like BT30 or something similar.

Jeff

Jeff,

Call Phil at Mikini or email him and he'll answer any questions you have. I do know that they are working on a new production machine, the 1610LP which will have full automation. Syil is supposedly doing the same. Each should run around 22-25K. Again, I would go with the Mikini because I fell like they have the best engineering. This new Mikini will be offered as a retrofit kit as well for the 1610 I'm told. And it uses a different spindle.

Aloha